2021-11-18 GnuCash IRC logs
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06:50:08 <chris> CDB-Man: one of the hiccups with ifrs-report.scm is to decide beforehand *how* to tag capitalized expenses. Do we use the Action field "Fee" ??? Shouldn't it be localized? Should we use another hidden kvp field? There's as such no concensus and I wouldn't claim to know the best future-proof approach. jralls may opine.
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09:35:08 <chris> CDB-Man: in addition, from your memory did you modify the datafile in 797796 to fix a data-entry bug? I have very little time to pore over the datafile nowadays
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13:08:12 <jralls> chris, An action field value is fine, but localize strings only for presentation. We've gotten ourselves into trouble in a few places by localizing strings that are fed to code and it breaks the data file when it's opened in a different locale. The most present in my mind is localized numeric strings as in https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798371.
13:16:27 <jralls> fell, can you replicate https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798375 on a flatpak install?
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13:27:00 * fell is first time using discover to install a released flatpak…
13:27:41 <fell> They have a popup authentication dialog.
13:28:08 <jralls> Oh, sorry, I thought you already had a GC release flatpak installed.
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13:41:47 <fell> usually I have the local test version before the nightlies get the dependency updates.
13:51:36 <jralls> That would work to test the bug, nothing in the account selection code has changed since the release.
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13:59:25 <andreas^> .
14:02:00 <fell> jralls: Right, the refresh of the list after entering backspacce is wrong.
14:02:27 <jralls> What happens?
14:03:51 <andreas^> gnucash doesn't open my book automatically on start after the last upgrade.
14:04:28 <fell> I wantet the account group Aktiva, after entering backspace I see only the group 01.
14:04:32 <andreas^> lots of regressions with colors and numbers not showing.
14:04:34 <jralls> andreas^, yes, you and fell were working on that Tuesday but you had to go.
14:04:58 <andreas^> I'm here for 40 mins.
14:05:34 <jralls> It's probably that your preferences didn't get migrated to the new gsettings path, /org/gnucash/GnuCash instead of /org/gnucash/.
14:05:58 <fell> andreas^ did you read the GTK3 wiki page?
14:06:05 <jralls> It should have done that the first time you opened GnuCash 4.8, but apparently failed.
14:06:21 <andreas^> jralls: dconf dump /org/gnucash/GnuCash/ shows the same config as /org/gnucash/.
14:07:01 <jralls> Is that instance of dconf running inside the flatpak sandbox?
14:07:29 <andreas^> jralls: I don't use flatpak as far as I'm aware of.
14:07:54 <jralls> OK, I misunderstood what you said Tuesday.
14:07:55 <andreas^> fell: I didn't.
14:08:44 <fell> I suspect now some oof your GTK settings got wrong.
14:09:58 <fell> Unfortunatly they are distributed over a cascade of ini, css … files.
14:11:08 <andreas^> fell: can I just reset those settings?
14:11:33 <fell> System,User, application settings?
14:12:11 <fell> Read the GTK page and look which changed on yourr system.
14:14:24 <fell> you mentioned the alternate bg colour of the register IIRC
14:14:50 <fell> alternating
14:15:03 <andreas^> fell: yes it's white now instead of green.
14:16:51 <fell> that is gnucash specific, so look for the gnucash-something-css files
14:24:15 <fell> jralls, after using BS I am restricted to the first group of the current level of account groups.
14:26:06 <jralls> Can you BS away everything and then get to all-tree search again?
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14:26:35 <fell> But I can shift-tab to leave the cell, tab, ctrl+A, and retry to select.
14:27:17 <jralls> That's not what 798375 is reporting, though, he says that once he gets no selection BS and delete don't do anything.
14:27:25 <fell> No, BS always restricts to the first group on the current level.
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14:29:05 <jralls> Does that mean that if you have e.g. Assets:Current and Assets:Investment that once you backspace the offered accounts are only in Assets:Current?
14:29:08 <fell> Ah, I typed in the list, he enters directly.
14:37:27 <fell> After I start to type (a valid letter) thelist appears. As soon as I use an"invalid" char,the list disappears. And doesnot reappear, if I remove the invalid char.
14:38:17 <fell> I assum that is meant with "…do not function and the select list does not open."
14:40:15 <jralls> I would guess so. Does the erroneous character disappear? Is the list's reveal arrow pointing up or down?
14:41:43 <fell> yes I am restricted to Current then.
14:42:00 <fell> the character disappears
14:42:00 <jralls> GTG, back in an hour or so.
14:42:39 <jralls> OK, one last check: If you backspace away all of the characters is the list still not displayed.
14:42:41 <jralls> ?
14:44:05 <fell> I got both arrows :-(
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14:45:02 <fell> Last time,after BS until I can reenter a colon, the arrow is down and no list visible.
14:46:37 <fell> Before using the colon, the list is there, but restricted to the first group; arrow up.
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14:53:56 <fell> Yes , still first group selected with empty input field.
15:02:11 <fell> It may be, the list was empty because I have a Group "Aktiva" and Income…"Aktiviert", which was listed first and I had not seen it, when the input was "Aktiv".
15:53:23 <jralls> Testing on a local build on F34 the list isn't restored if I backspace away after zeroing the list with an invalid entry but it comes back as soon as I type something new. E.g. in your case if I'd typed Aktive the list would disappear and wouldn't come back when I backspaced away the 'e', but then would if I typed 'a' to make Aktiva. Does it do that for you?
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18:39:52 <chris> jralls: the issue is - if you sell buy 2 stock worth $1000, and capitalize broker fees $9.95, according to CDB-Man your splits will be: CASH -$1009.95, STOCK +2STOCK +$1000, STOCK +$9.95.
18:40:10 <chris> it's the last split that I'm wondering how to label as "Fee"
18:40:13 <jralls> chris, what issue is that?
18:40:40 <chris> cDb-man labels it with the action field "Fee" and IFRS-report.scm will detect it's a fee by querying the action field
18:42:01 <chris> on a higher level -- sometimes stocks are capitalized (into STOCK) othertimes they're expensed (into EXPENSE) - the latter is easy to detect, the former currently relies on action field
18:42:24 <jralls> Ah, and the problem is that action fields are free text, there's no good machine-readable value there.
18:42:31 <chris> bingo
18:42:48 <chris> see ifrs-cost-basis.scm#L287
18:44:59 <chris> on a higher level -- sometimes *fees* in stockactivitiy are capitalized (into STOCK) othertimes they're expensed (into EXPENSE) - the latter is easy to detect, the former currently relies on action field
18:49:16 <jralls> Yup. And technically you should also separate fees and commissions, though the latter are tending towards 0.
18:50:58 <jralls> So I guess instead of appropriating the action field you could use one or more KVPs on the split to store the additional info.
18:52:12 <chris> A fine choice as long as users *always* use the stock-assistant to input data into Stock register to populate these kvp data
18:52:52 <chris> I'm happy with using anglo Action "Fee" to tag broker fees; it's the least intrusive option?
18:54:11 <jralls> The problem with that is that not all of our users are anglos. ;-)
18:57:04 <chris> what do you suggest then?
18:58:03 <chris> brekkie time...
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19:05:21 <jralls> There are three ways to handle capitalized fees: 1: bury them and adjust the price. 2: have a separate no-shares split that summed to the buy split (the one with shares) balances the transfer account split. 3: A no-shares split that corresponds to a transfer account split.
19:05:52 <jralls> You can detect 2 and 3, and if neither is true assume 1.
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20:06:16 <gnucashout> aight, i think i'll go forward without including his loans
20:06:16 <gncbot> gnucashout: Sent 1 day, 11 hours, and 32 minutes ago: <warlord> Yes, absolutely track it. This is the point of a split transaction. You have a $2000 credit to checking, a $1185 debit to the Liability:Loan account, and the remainder ($815) is a debit to Expenses:Interest
20:06:17 <gncbot> gnucashout: Sent 1 day, 11 hours, and 28 minutes ago: <fell> An example is https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/loans_mortgage1.html
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20:06:56 <gnucashout> Oh, interesting, warlord; the problem is i'm in the IMPORT flow
20:07:02 <gnucashout> and in that i don't know if i can split it
20:09:12 <chris> jralls: this gets really tricky: according to truth table, cap fees may exist for: buy, dividend+buy, return-of-capital, stock-split, reverse-split.
20:10:20 <chris> it may just be easier to specify the action field "Fee" as part of the ifrs report options :(
20:11:18 <jralls> You mean to specify the text value of the Action field that would indicate capitalized fees? I suppose you could.
20:12:59 <chris> ok this is probably the best. it creates an inconsistency though: capitalized fees are detected via action=="Fee", expensed fees are detected via account_type==EXPENSE. but users (eg CDB-Man) will need to live with that...
20:13:09 <jralls> IIRC CDB-Man says that fees aren't "capitalized" on a sale when they're used to reduce the proceeds instead of expensed, but ISTM you need to be able to handle that, it's the normal way in the US because of tax law.
20:14:30 <gnucashout> And to clarify, warlord, it's a $1185 transaction INTO the loan account on the bank's side, to my understanding. I probably need to check out exactly how they're doing it, as it feels like they're going the opposite way of what it should be
20:15:14 <chris> jralls: I don't know - I just trust the truth table and make the ifrs report match the .xls
20:17:59 <jralls> Roger, but CDB-Man isn't going to see the whining on the user list. ;-)
20:19:11 <jralls> gnucashout, it's cr assets and dr loan, i.e. paying down the loan, right?
20:20:17 <gnucashout> I'm completely unsure, though I could pull up the txs and see how they've got it set up instead of talking without conviction; lemme crank the filesystem
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20:20:38 <warlord> gnucashout, yes, that's exactly what I said -- debit to loan account mean you're paying down the loan.
20:47:08 <gnucashout> hmmmmm.
20:47:15 <gnucashout> lemme think on this (and actually look at it)
20:49:01 <warlord> Your bank statements *usually* have the labels backwards from your point of view, because they label it from THEIR point of view. For example, a Bank Deposit Account is an Asset to you, but it is a Liability to the Bank! That's why when you deposit money into the account, you debit it on your side, and they credit it on theirs.
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21:42:08 <gnucashout> warlord, iiiinteresting.
21:47:19 <gnucashout> And before I get started, there's no feature where the entire ofx file is read and matched to other transactions in the file that have the exact same amount, right?
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22:52:22 <DeluxeWarPlaya> how to find the last .ofx import date?
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