2025-10-03 GnuCash IRC logs
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10:46:52 <conchobhargreen> I am having several problems with signs in reports. The report subtitle table shows credits to expense accounts as positive amounts in black; credits to revenue as negative amounts in red; and credits to liability accounts as negative in red, irrespective of how I set the "Reverse Balanced Accounts" setting -- "credit accounts" or "none". What should I do to get a conventional standard-accounting view?
10:47:05 <conchobhargreen> Also in reports, the "Grand total" adds revenues to liabilities...is "Grand total" a cash flow total or something?
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11:05:40 <warlord> it sounds like you might have entered the data backwards.
11:07:37 <conchobhargreen> No, I'm confident I haven't entered the data backwards. Debits are increases in assets and expenses. Accounting 101.
11:08:48 <warlord> Okay, so what report are you running?
11:09:33 <conchobhargreen> A credit to revenues increases revenues. Revenues carry a credit balance. So credit balances in Revenues should show as positive numbers, in black.
11:09:39 <conchobhargreen> custom report.
11:10:22 <warlord> Well, if the data is entered correctly, then we can
11:10:32 <warlord> can't really support a custom report -- we didn't write it.
11:10:39 <warlord> You should go ask the report author
11:10:42 <conchobhargreen> The custom report includes a variety of assets, liabilities, and income accounts.
11:10:59 <conchobhargreen> I generated the report.
11:11:54 <warlord> You say "generated". Does that mean "wrote the scheme"?
11:11:55 <conchobhargreen> In the report options, I select Subtotal Table and Grand total. Sign Reverses is greyed out but set to "Global Preference".
11:12:52 <conchobhargreen> The red/black, pos/neg status on the report doesn't change when you go back to edt/preferences/Reverse Balanced accounts and change the radio button setting there.
11:13:10 <conchobhargreen> what do you mean by "wrote the scheme?"
11:14:00 <warlord> You said you are running a custom report. "Custom Report" implies a new report not written by the gnucash authors, and added/loaded in by the end user. Who wrote that report? "Scheme" is the language reports are written in.
11:14:05 <conchobhargreen> I selected Reports, then Transaction Report. I didn't write anything.
11:14:42 <warlord> AHA! So you LIED when I asked you what report you were running. You said "Custom Report". You should have said "Transaction Report". NOW we are getting somewhere.
11:14:49 <conchobhargreen> sorry...by "Custom" I just meant a Transaction Report....not one of your standard templates.
11:15:01 <warlord> The transaction report is a standard report.
11:15:10 <conchobhargreen> ok, look, I'm a bookkeeper, not a developer.
11:16:00 <conchobhargreen> Instead flamewarring here, can we just figure out how the signs can get displayed correctly and how subtotals can be shown correctly?
11:16:03 <warlord> Which is fine.. okay, so you run the transaction report. What options did you set? (I'm going to attempt to reproduce locally)
11:16:54 <conchobhargreen> I use formal accounting labels....and generally have the Credit accounts radio button selected for Reverse Balanced Accounts in Preferences.
11:17:36 <warlord> I'm not flamewarring -- I can only help support the reports that come with GnuCash. As soon as you said "Custom Report" that implied a third-party involvement. I took you at your word and went down that path.
11:17:37 <conchobhargreen> Then, I generate a transaction report. Select the accounts I want, which, as I said, are a mix of Asset, Liabilities, Income, and Expense accounts.
11:17:52 <warlord> I've got "Credit Account" selected too. (I think that is the default).
11:18:17 <conchobhargreen> Then I select subtotal table, account balance, and grand total.
11:18:20 <conchobhargreen> That's all.
11:18:22 <conchobhargreen> Nothing fancy.
11:19:05 <conchobhargreen> My customer (also my wife) expects to see receiveables in black, expenses in red, revenues in black, and liabilities in red.
11:19:25 <conchobhargreen> positive = black, negative = red.
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11:20:06 <conchobhargreen> A receiveables increase is an asset increase (a debit) so should be in black, for example.
11:20:34 <warlord> I have never used the Subtotal table before. I see a mix of black and red in mine. Is this where you are questioning?
11:20:36 <conchobhargreen> A trust account (retainer) is a liability. An increase in liabilities is a credit, and should be in red.
11:20:46 <conchobhargreen> yes, exactly.
11:21:02 <conchobhargreen> Revenue credits show up in red, irrespective of global settings.
11:21:24 <conchobhargreen> I think Revenue credits should show up in black, as positive balances, for reporting purposes.
11:22:03 <conchobhargreen> Expense debits show up in black, but for reporting purposes should be in red, as debits are increases in expenses.
11:22:56 <conchobhargreen> And then "Grand total": It's okay to add those two numbers together if it's a cash flow statement, but it's unclear what "Grand total" refers to, so you have to take out a calculator and figure out what it's a "Grand Total" of.
11:24:19 <warlord> The red vs black there is all about whether the total for the period is positive or negative.
11:24:50 <conchobhargreen> I mean, I think "grand total" is Revenue + Trust Account balance increases minus expenses. So it shows up correctly in black. But in the subtotals, items in black in the regular table show up as negeative and red.
11:25:18 <conchobhargreen> Yeah, I get that...but what shows up as black in transactions gets tallied as red in the subtotal table.
11:25:50 <warlord> I don't think the account type has anything to do with it in the subtotal table. (Like I said, I've never used the table before -- so I'm just trying to figure it out now with you).
11:26:17 <conchobhargreen> Yeah, it doesn't appear as if the direction of the sign or the color has anything to do with the type of account.
11:26:42 <conchobhargreen> By the way, I'm on 5.5:
11:26:44 <conchobhargreen> Version: 5.5Build ID: 5.5+(2023-12-16)Finance::Quote: 1.59
11:27:17 <warlord> I am pretty sure the report hasn't changed. I'm on gnucash-5.12-1.fc42.x86_64
11:27:47 <warlord> But yeah, I think the red or black is all about whether the total amount for the account is positive or negative, regardless of the account type.
11:28:22 <conchobhargreen> ok. I am not sure it is a bug, but as I'm not sure it's intentional, it's hard to tell the difference. I don't know why the subtotal table would behave that way. It would seem when you change the Global preference on sign, the subtotal table should change as well.
11:29:05 <conchobhargreen> And it seems that for reporting, positive touchy-feely things should be black. Red alarms the client. They think fire truck.
11:30:10 <conchobhargreen> Revenues should be in black, expenses in red. Increases in liabilities is one of those accounting psychology conundra, so I care less there: Is an increase in liabilities good or bad? Kind of both.
11:30:17 <warlord> You're welcome to email gnucash-user about it. More people there (including the devs) who may be able to explain why it is the way it is.
11:30:50 <conchobhargreen> what's the email address?
11:30:56 <warlord> In my report,by salary (Income) is a negative red number.. So I do see what you're saying.
11:31:24 <warlord> gnucash-user@gnucash.org You can subscribe at https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
11:31:24 <conchobhargreen> ok, good. My wife went all apeshit on me this morning about why her revenue numbers were all red.
11:32:20 <conchobhargreen> But you're not aware of any magic settings to change the signs in the subtotals table?
11:32:34 <warlord> I am not.
11:32:48 <conchobhargreen> ok, I'll just not use it for now, and email as you suggesteed.
11:33:51 <conchobhargreen> Thank you.
11:35:55 <warlord> Good luck, and hope you can make your wife happy! :)
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16:50:10 <Sherlock> @tell warlord (reposting of my tell from 10/27) My IP appears to be blocked again.
16:50:10 <gncbot> Sherlock: The operation succeeded.
16:50:34 <warlord> Sherlock, I saw it, but you didn't tell me your IP Address.
16:50:34 <gncbot> warlord: Sent just now: <Sherlock> (reposting of my tell from 10/27) My IP appears to be blocked again.
16:50:40 <warlord> (I didn't want to assume the same one)
16:51:06 <warlord> I also don't understand what you are doing that is getting you blocked! Nobody else is being blocked regularly, so.... what are you doing?
17:05:20 <Sherlock> If I knew what I was doing that was getting my IP blocked, I wouldn't do it would I. My guess would be its the RSS query against BZ. I paused updates after auth became required but that may not be sufficient as it still appears to attempt to update when I issue "Get Messages". I've been VPNing around the issue to access the IRC logs.
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