2025-09-27 GnuCash IRC logs
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18:35:50 <androclus> Hey, all. I am just learning about FDX, a financial data exchange standard that seems to have succeeded OFX.
18:36:00 <androclus> I notice Plaid, Wise, and others use it. Maybe MX, as well.
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18:36:25 <androclus> But I don't know much about it. I know that GnuCash supports OFX, and I indeed used to use it but my FI stopped supporting it.
18:37:14 <androclus> Has there been any talk among the devs of supporting FDX?
18:56:13 <androclus> Oops, I see now that most likely this would be through AQBanking? And AQB does not (yet) support FDX.. Hmm...
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19:14:40 <jralls> androclus, FDX is a cloud-based protocol that requires authentication that's not feasible for open-source projects because they have no way to secure the certificates.
19:15:08 <androclus> dangit.
19:16:04 <androclus> so what is probably the future for gnucash /aqbanking users who want to download directly/automatically instead of manually/CSV? My credit union gave up on OFX.
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19:32:30 <jralls> I'm afraid online banking in the US is dead for open-source projects like GnuCash. We were able to sneak into OFX Direct Connect because it was 1990s tech with minimal security that we could reverse engineer. It's really a good thing that it's gone, you really don't want your bank data flying around the inter-tubes in the clear.
19:34:55 <jralls> The US government, unlike the German one, isn't going to create a public standard for online banking and make banks use it, so instead we get corporations setting proprietary standards that ensure they get a cut. That locks out small players and especially small players that have to publish their source code.
19:38:44 <androclus> @jralls Well, that is quite clear -- thank you.
19:38:44 <gncbot> androclus: Error: "jralls" is not a valid command.
19:38:54 <androclus> jralls Well, that is quite clear -- thank you.
19:39:21 <androclus> I wonder then if there is any way to make CSV downloads just a little bit less manual, then, with my FI?
19:40:31 <androclus> Or, I see from the FDX web pages that the OFX working group still exists at FDX. I wonder if I could get my CU to just turn OFX back on?
19:40:41 <androclus> (at least the read-only download of transactions part?)
19:41:51 <androclus> But maybe I am just "grasping at straws". It sounds like just logging into my CU's web site and doing the manual downloading is really just the way it is going to be for the foreseeable future, eh?
19:43:42 <jralls> Don't confuse OFX with OFX direct-connect. OFX is a financial data stream format based on XML. It's an open standard and in widespread use. Some banks still provide it as a download format (Capital One does for my credit card). You might be able to get your FI to enable that.
19:45:48 <androclus> Okay, but I'm sorry: When you say "It's an open standard and in widespread use." are you referring to OFX or OFX direct-connect? Just so I am clear.
19:47:13 <jralls> OFX. OFX Direct-connect was a Quicken proprietary method for connecting to banks and using OFX as the data interchange format.
19:47:52 <androclus> Okay, yes: My CU used to support OFX (not OFX direct-connect). But they turned it off for some reason (without a vote of the members :P )
19:48:14 <androclus> It was so lovely: I could just download my transactions with a click of a menu.
19:48:22 <jralls> Probably because they got new software that doesn't support it.
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19:50:37 <androclus> It's really too bad: If you think about it: On the programming side, besides the initial authentication, sending an OFX financial data stream in XML is really just print statements.
19:51:18 <androclus> (I programmed a bunch of data export stuff in XML with a backend database for years. Its trivial.)
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20:00:21 <androclus> And they even offer it still at my CU but as a "Web Connect" (OFX or QFX) option only. I have to sign in and download the file.
20:01:52 <androclus> Even then, for some reason, everything is backwards: I cannot tell if it is my CU's mistake or GNUCash's, but when I try to use the downloaded OFX file for importing transactions to my GNUCash checking account ledger, the CSV import gets it right. But the OFX file import, everything is backwards: All things that should be Decreases (like going to a restaurant) get imported as Increases. Grrrr....
20:05:05 <androclus> Here is a piece of the OFX file:
20:05:08 <androclus> <STMTTRN>
20:05:08 <androclus> <TRNTYPE>DEBIT</TRNTYPE>
20:05:08 <androclus> <DTPOSTED>20250927120000.000 GMT</DTPOSTED>
20:05:08 <androclus> <DTAVAIL>20250927120000.000 GMT</DTAVAIL>
20:05:08 <androclus> <TRNAMT>19.88</TRNAMT>
20:05:08 <androclus> <FITID>8a0382e898a7a1ae01998cb53cbf6481</FITID>
20:05:10 <androclus> <NAME>McDonald's</NAME>
20:05:12 <androclus> <MEMO>McDonald's</MEMO>
20:05:14 <androclus> </STMTTRN>
20:05:41 <androclus> So if I go to McDonald's just for an example.
20:07:12 <androclus> As I understand it, a debit (Dr.) is an entry on the left side of an account that increases an asset or an expense, and decreases a liability, equity, or revenue account. A credit (Cr.) is an entry on the right side of an account that increases a liability, equity, or revenue account, and decreases an asset or expense account.
20:07:26 <androclus> So my CU should be putting "CREDIT" there, if I understand correctly, yes?
20:07:47 <androclus> (for the <TRNTYPE> )
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20:20:29 <jralls> androclus, from *your* POV, yes, it's a credit. But from the *bank's* POV, it's a debit because it reduces the amount they owe you. Your bank statements probably show it the same way.
20:25:09 <androclus> Then that would be a standard way to write downloadable OFX (and QFX) files across most/all banks?
20:26:35 <androclus> In which case GNUCash should expect it?
20:27:41 <androclus> If that were the case, then GNUCash should be using the banks POV, and not depositing money into my checking account (from the OFX or QFX file) every time I go to McDonald's.
20:34:42 <androclus> (And my bank statements do not show it the same way: Though they only use 1 column (not proper 2-column ledger/accounting format), they do show minutes (-'s) for Cr's/Decreases and +'s for Dr's/Increases.)
20:34:57 <androclus> *minuses, not minutes
20:38:20 <jralls> GnuCash expects that the OFX reports a decrease in an asset account as a credit. Capital One does it the right way, and since it's not been a matter of constant complaint for the 20+ years that GnuCash has supported OFX imports I suspect that nearly all banks do too.
20:38:53 <androclus> Yes. IMHO, my bank is in error.
20:39:02 <androclus> Probably just no one has reported it.
20:43:02 <jralls> Or Quicken wants it the other way when the context is WebConnect. That's actually another Quicken thing where it sends you to the website to authenticate and the website sends some sort of token that Quicken catches and can use to automatically fetch the OFX stream.
20:45:21 <androclus> Well, I am not using the pop-up web-connect thing from GNUCash, since my bank turned off their OFX-download option years ago.
20:45:25 <androclus> I am just using GNUCash and signing into my website manually and downloading the files manually (I can choose CSV, OFX, or QFX: they give me the option).
20:45:49 <androclus> I.e. logging into my CU's website via web browser
20:46:24 <androclus> The CSV is correct. The OFX and QFX are in error.
20:46:40 <jralls> OK, that's the same as Cap One, except they get the credit/debit the right way around.
20:47:28 <androclus> 👍
20:47:47 <jralls> QFX is just Quicken's rebrand of OFX so it's not surprising they're both borked the same way. No QIF?
20:47:56 <androclus> No QIF. But QBO
20:48:28 <androclus> whatever that is
20:49:36 <jralls> That's Quickbooks format. Not public and I don't know of any successful reverse-engineering of the format.
20:49:45 <androclus> I am just lazy: The CSV is correct. And I saved a Load/Save Settings profile. But it is still a few more steps. The GNUCash OFX file import is just one click -- much easier, IF it worked.
20:49:56 <androclus> 👍
20:51:25 <androclus> YNAB interestingly enough has a nice feature: When you import a file (whether CSV or OFX), they give you a checkbox with the option of "Reverse"ing the credit/debit on the imported file. Maybe they have encountered enough FIs that get it wrong, and for the sake of keeping YNAB customers, just provide the option.
20:51:38 <jralls> You could always write a little program to flip all the TRNTYPEs.
20:52:20 <androclus> Yes. Easy enough. Awk/Sed or even just find/replace in Emacs. But then that defeats the purpose of the quicker GNUCash OFX import :-/
20:52:55 <androclus> (quicker -- fewer steps -- than CSV)
20:53:22 <jralls> As for CSV, there's a lot of variation in how banks format them and which direction they go, hence GnuCash's column selections Amount and Amount (Negated).
20:53:42 <androclus> Oh yes! You're right. GNUCash has that option too.
20:54:50 <androclus> I /JUST/ wish I could pull the CSV or OFX from my bank via REST, OFX download etc instead of having to log in via web browser manually. Back to same problema.
20:55:15 <androclus> *sigh*
20:55:38 <jralls> BTW you can also import OFX via AQBanking, and that uses text-based filter files so you could customize the OFX one for your CU.
21:01:35 <androclus> That's a great idea.
21:04:13 <androclus> Though I tried and AQB just dies. Doesn't even pop up an error or anything.
21:06:11 <jralls> Tools>Online Banking Setup or File>Import>Import with AQBanking?
21:06:35 <jralls> You want the latter for importing files.
21:07:09 <androclus> I used File>Import>Import with AQBanking
21:10:05 <jralls> Huh. What platform?
21:10:30 <androclus> linux
21:11:21 <jralls> Is AQBanking installed?
21:14:04 <androclus> yes.
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21:17:16 <jralls> Threre should be some messages in the tracefile (usually /tmp/gnucash.trace on Linux) about why AQB didn't start.
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21:18:09 <jralls> gtg, dinnertime.
21:18:45 <androclus> * 18:18:31 WARN <aqbanking> g_document.c: 64: Ignoring group [ofx:OFX]
21:18:47 <androclus> sure.
22:25:39 <Sherlock> @tell warlord, My IP appears to be blocked again.
22:25:39 <gncbot> Sherlock: The operation succeeded.
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