2024-02-24 GnuCash IRC logs
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20:07:40 <dadmin> I'm trying to set up gnucash for a scout troop. Each family should be able to get a report of transactions and current balance. I'm thinking that means they should have individual accounts. Should I also create customers (or vendors or employees)?
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20:15:24 <dadmin> For example, we're planning a trip to Philmont. The charges are $150, $655, and $655 per person. What would a workflow look like? I'm guessing I need to create a vendor for Philmont, a job, and a bill. Then a customer, account, and invoice for each family. But I'm getting tripped up on the accounts receivable/payable.
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22:02:15 <chf> dadmin, to simplyfy things, you can probably skip using those "business categories of people" (employees, vendors, customers)m they don't really "fit" anyway.
22:04:20 <chf> You should first look at the "categories of expenses" and "income" your group has, and then what you need to caculate, and create an account structure suitable for that,
22:04:58 <chf> in a way that you can get important calculation results "automatically".
22:05:19 <dadmin> We're currently using trooptrack, but its double transaction implementation is broken, so I'm looking at migrating to gnucash
22:05:57 <chf> Example: a liabilities account, sub-accounts for all of your members => balance is what they have to pay.
22:06:37 <dadmin> So you're saying only use basic accounts and transfers between them. Can I still use invoices?
22:07:16 <chf> Don't know that, I'm in Germany, and our scout group is tax exempt as a non-profit association, so we MUST have some sort of accounting.
22:08:17 <dadmin> I mean can I use gnucash's invoice/payment features if I don't have customers or vendors?
22:08:23 <chf> Yes, I think so, perhaps you must turn your members into "customers" for that, but I don't use this, and don't know.
22:08:38 <dadmin> ah
22:09:19 <dadmin> The part I'm getting stuck on is gnucash's invoice system is forcing me to use 'accounts receivable', and it's very confusing
22:09:39 <chf> The "vendors" are the merchants you buy your scout stuff and food from (and so on).
22:11:16 <dadmin> If I scrap the whole invoice feature, what type of accounts should I use for each member? I've got everything in one bank account, so that would be a placeholder, then ....cash?... accounts for the members?
22:11:18 <chf> There are account types in Gnucash; if you live in a "common law" jurisdiction, they match pretty well.
22:11:41 <dadmin> cash sub-accounts*
22:12:08 <chf> "Accounts receivable" would be where money comes in.
22:13:07 <chf> Bank -> A/R, I think. Perhaps I can wake up CDB-Man, he's better in that.
22:13:30 <dadmin> I'd appreciate that. I have a committee meeting on monday and I've been fighting with this for weeks
22:13:31 <dadmin> :D
22:13:54 <chf> What members owe you, goes into liability type (sub-)accounts.
22:14:46 <dadmin> bank > liability? Interesting
22:15:04 <dadmin> yeah I guess that does make sense
22:15:05 <chf> When they pay, this gets Bank -> A/R
22:15:34 <chf> NO, 2 "half sentences" in one line above.
22:16:48 <chf> Bank -> A/R liabilities has its own "counterpart", the balance gets reduced on payment.
22:17:01 <dadmin> Before I abandon the invoice strategy, I've got one scout's charges listed. What "Income Account" do I use? It won't let me select A/R or A/P
22:17:49 <dadmin> In fact, I created an account of every type possible, and all I can choose from is Asset, Credit, or Liability
22:18:12 <AdrienM> dadmin, I'd back up a bit and think of the workflow using paper, then try to implement it in GnuCash.
22:18:24 <chf> Don't know the exact terms, also not sure if "liabilities" is for long-term loans.
22:18:59 <AdrienM> Invoices have line items posted to various Income accounts. The other side of that transaction is a sum of those line items posted to A/R.
22:19:20 <dadmin> I don't have any accounting experience, this got dumped on me when I missed a meeting and no one else wanted to do it
22:19:30 <AdrienM> Bills (from Vendors) have line items posted to expenses, with the other side being posted as a sum to A/P.
22:20:05 <AdrienM> dadmin, I sympathize, that's how most organizations run, even big ones can be that way.
22:20:51 <AdrienM> Just think of the real-world transactions, then repeat that in the software.
22:20:54 <dadmin> ok, I'm following so far. I'm just not sure how to make the money connect from scout > Income > A/R > A/P > Vendor
22:21:06 <chf> In your case, vendors are the grocery store, camping site, car rental,…
22:21:42 <AdrienM> At the present state of GnuCash, what you are looking for may not be easily possible. But with some careful thought, might be doable.
22:22:19 <AdrienM> Unfortunately, the 'job' function, which is the closest to what you are describing, isn't really suited to your needs.
22:22:41 <dadmin> Yeah I was really hoping I could create a job with one vendor and multiple customers
22:22:46 <AdrienM> You can certainly track that Scouts owe a certain amount, and how much they have paid against that.
22:23:05 <AdrienM> You can also track how much the troop owes to various outside 'Vendors'.
22:23:26 <AdrienM> Tying the two together is a bit of a manual process on your part for now.
22:23:44 <chf> Almost everything is doable, at least if you consider transferring the money amounts multiple times.
22:24:00 <AdrienM> True that. It's just a matter of thinking it through.
22:24:31 <dadmin> manual how? I'm ok with multiple transfers. I'd prefer it tbh. Scout > paypal > bank > philmont. Nice and clean paper trail
22:24:56 <AdrienM> Just record the real transactions.
22:25:13 <dadmin> yeah, probably easier to reconcile that
22:25:15 <chf> In Gnucash you can also habe those transactions belonging together in one multiple-line split transaction.
22:25:22 <chf> have
22:25:34 <dadmin> so skip the whole invoice system?
22:25:36 <AdrienM> Yes, if it really happens all at once.
22:25:44 <AdrienM> Not necessarily (skipping invoicing)
22:26:02 <AdrienM> (all at once being multi-split transactions)
22:26:34 <AdrienM> It is up to you. With the 'business features' you have the ability to easily print reports showing what is owed and what was paid.
22:26:47 <dadmin> I do love reports
22:26:58 <AdrienM> An entire manual process also means you have to create those reports with some additional effort.
22:28:10 <AdrienM> Start from the beginning: your troop has expenses they pay? Then set up those outside payees as Vendors and create Bills for those expenses. You then 'process payment' against those as and when they are paid by the troop.
22:29:06 <dadmin> ok, interesting. I've been focused on the invoice side.
22:29:07 <chf> You can even habe "transit" accounts where money is kept paid by credit card (ex.: something bought today, bill will arrive next month).
22:29:11 <AdrienM> Now, on the side (probably in a spreadsheet) you'll have to divvy up those expenses per Scout, and then in GnuCash, issue 'Invoices' to them as 'Customers'. When they make a payment, it will go against their virtual individual A/R accounts.
22:30:13 <dadmin> ohhhhh, nice. Once I process a bill payment, I'll see a negative number that can be reimbursed through an invoice
22:30:23 <AdrienM> If your divvy is just a simple 'divide by x' formula, you can skip the spreadsheet and have GnuCash do the math for you per invoice.
22:31:47 <chf> It also can import bank data, if your bank delivers a suitable file format.
22:31:49 <AdrienM> Um, no. Not directly. You'll see how much the troop still owes for expenses not yet paid. You can see how much each Scout still owes for what they've been 'invoiced' by the troop, but there is no way to automatically tie what the troop has been billed to what a Scout owes. That is the manual part.
22:32:57 <chf> You'll have to choose the "other" account yourself, but Gnucash will "learn" from your choices, and make suggestions. This is very comfortable.
22:34:28 <dadmin> I think I'm good for now. Super helpful, thanks guys
22:35:17 <chf> I'd consider making "activity accounts" for individual journeys, and so on.
22:35:22 <AdrienM> sure thing. Have fun in Philmont! (I've only been with my troop for a visit, we never did a trek)
22:35:45 <chf> Where is Philmont, by the way?
22:36:42 <AdrienM> New Mexico.
22:37:15 <AdrienM> https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/
22:37:36 <chf> Far away from me, I'm in Aachen, North-Rhine Westphalia in Germany, at the border NL/BE/DE.
22:39:04 <chf> It's loading slowly here, I'll have a look at it, thanks.
22:41:36 <AdrienM> Funny how our chat is near instant yet websites load slow...
22:41:37 <chf> Seems to be huge.
22:41:47 <AdrienM> 140k acres or so I think.
22:42:57 <AdrienM> ≈56k+ hectares in your neck of the woods.
22:43:10 <chf> 214 square miles they write. In Europe we've got much less "wilderness" left.
22:44:00 <AdrienM> It's wide open in those parts. If you don't want to see civilization, you probably don't have to try very hard.
22:45:13 <chf> This is our association's main camping site: https://bundeszentrum.dpsg.de/de
22:45:30 <chf> 28 ha "only".
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22:47:56 <AdrienM> Nice. Reminds me of Tennessee and Kentucky's rolling hills.
22:50:19 <AdrienM> And that looks like plenty of space to escape the rat race.
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