2024-02-08 GnuCash IRC logs
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14:04:27 <jralls> @tell manis, no, anything that can't be linked into GnuCash isn't a good option. We need to maintain the single-click displays a report in the program user experience. We also need to keep the feature where one can click account names and transactions to open that account's register with the clicked transaction selected if the click was a transaction.
14:04:27 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
14:04:51 <jralls> manis ^^^
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14:06:21 <jralls> manis And BTW none of this is going to happen anytime soon unless a new dev volunteers to write it and maintain it.
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16:31:43 <manis> jralls: all of these things should be possible with PDF, too. PDF supports hyperlinks.
16:32:15 <manis> I'm sorry for even bringing this topic up.
16:32:56 <jralls> Yes, that's why I've been suggesting PDF as the eventual replacement for HTML. But why are you sorry for asking?
16:34:34 <jralls> You've at least prompted a little more thought about what would be involved in losing PDF.
16:34:46 <jralls> Sorry, losing WebKit.
16:35:03 <manis> I felt like even just discussion possible changes is not welcome in the GNUcash community.
16:35:39 <manis> Just seeing how long cash-based accounting is in the queue maybe I was just overly optimistic.
16:35:40 <jralls> Not a bit. The main problem is developer bandwidth, as in we don't have any left over.
16:36:52 <manis> Sure, I get that, but what I don't understand is why everybody keeps thinking that anybody wanted to get rid of the inline preview of reports.
16:37:07 <jralls> You mean cash-based business features? The use-case for that is at best dubious, but aside from that it's still down to lack of bandwidth.
16:37:38 <jralls> Huh?
16:37:40 <manis> Why is it dubious?
16:38:02 <manis> It'd be exactly what I need...
16:38:38 <manis> Create an invoice but only book it when it's paid.
16:38:42 <jralls> Because it requires that you generate a document for a sale or expense without recognizing it in the accounting system until later.
16:39:13 <jralls> What's the point?
16:39:53 <manis> Of cash-based accounting?
16:39:55 <jralls> Note that you can create the invoice now and only post it when you're ready to book it, presumably when it's paid.
16:42:04 <jralls> Of cash-based accounting when running a business. It means that your books reflect the state of your bank accounts instead of your business so you lose the management value of doing the accounting work.
16:42:34 <manis> OTOH I don't have to pay income taxes on invoices which may not get paid.
16:45:01 <jralls> Nor deduct expenses that you haven't yet paid for. It cuts both ways.
16:45:37 <manis> Sure, but depending on what your business is, one or the other is better suited for it.
16:46:12 <manis> If I don't plan on not paying for expenses I'm better of with cash-based, no?
16:46:14 <jralls> But you can keep your books with accrual and still file your taxes on a cash basis.
16:47:20 <jralls> Just subtract the A/R balance from Income and A/P from expense.
16:48:02 <manis> I'm not sure if they'd accept that actually.
16:48:33 <manis> Would need to check.
16:48:50 <manis> My work around for this so far has just been to not use the invoice feature.
16:50:23 <jralls> If they know then you're being audited; if you're being audited and your auditor knows that you're using GnuCash and its utter lack of internal controls then I don't think you've got a very good auditor.
16:56:42 <manis> I don't know what you mean, jralls.
16:57:22 <jralls> About what? Auditing or internal controls?
16:58:13 <manis> Your previous message.
17:00:13 <jralls> Right, what don't you understand?
17:01:46 <manis> I don't understand what you're trying to tell me about auditors and GnuCash.
17:04:33 <jralls> I think auditors are extremely unlikely to accept a set of accounts generated with GnuCash because GnuCash allows anyone to change any entry at any time. Auditors insist that an accounting system produces an immutable history.
17:06:37 <manis> Ah, that's what you're after. I use SVN to check in GnuCash's XML, so all changes can be reconstructed if necessary.
17:07:01 <manis> And it is a backup at the same time.
17:09:43 <jralls> And you have an auditor who understands and accepts that, knowing that you can change subversion's history?
17:11:45 <manis> I don't know, I'm too new "in business". Never had am auditor. I only know that the law does not require any specific tech.
17:12:40 <manis> That being said I don't think that any other accounting software can really stop you from manipulating old transactions. AFAIK they don't use crypto.
17:13:27 <manis> Another possibility would be to burn the SVN repo to a CD at the end of the year.
17:17:11 <jralls> So backing up a bit, you're not required to be audited. That's not surprising, it's pretty rare for a small business to be. In that case the tax authority probably doesn't really care how you keep your books as long as your tax return more or less matches what they can figure out from what other businesses report about you.
17:20:24 <manis> Yeah, I guess so. But let's say I had an audit and the auditor has issues with GnuCash+SVN, I'd like to see any commercial accounting software which does better than that.
17:20:55 <manis> Technically they cannot unless they have a verified signature of the books.
17:24:31 <jralls> The auditors I've met aren't that computer literate. It would be a struggle to get them to understand how a version control system works. What they will understand and not like is that you can, in GnuCash, select any existing transaction and change it without leaving any record. Even the fact that someone with admin privs on the SQL database underneath the accounting system can do the same thing with an update query goes ov
17:24:31 <jralls> er their heads.
17:25:55 <jralls> Or they rely on the DB logs, not realizing that that admin can temporarily disable or alter them too.
17:28:43 <manis> Altering a transaction does leave a trace in my situation :-) In the SVN Diff.
17:29:25 <manis> Thinking about this I've just had another great (IMO) feature idea for GnuCash. SVN integration.
17:30:36 <manis> > The auditors I've met aren't that computer literate.
17:30:36 <manis> I'm not going to comment on that.
17:30:43 <manis> ;-)
17:31:15 <manis> jralls, may I ask why you are having to do with auditors so much? Is that related to GnuCash?
17:32:18 <jralls> No, previous lives. I used to be a production control manager in an integrated circuits company.
17:36:31 <manis> Ok
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