2023-09-08 GnuCash IRC logs
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13:40:25 <cseiler> w
13:43:27 <cseiler> We have been using Gnucash 5.1 under Windows 10 and 11 for a few months now. We are just now discovering that several invoices have duplicate invoice numbers, and the original invoices posted and printed have dissappeared.
13:51:59 <jralls> cseller, that's a known bug that's fixed in 5.3.
13:53:35 <jralls> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798930
13:54:22 <jralls> Also https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798952
13:55:42 <cseiler> The original invoices no longer show in the Accounts receivable either. It's as if they've vanished, and then GnuCash
13:55:51 <cseiler> OK. Reading bug reports.
13:58:01 <cseiler> Is there a report for unpaid invoices?
14:00:33 <jralls> Those bugs are about the invoice numbering and other counters being messed up. I don't think that anyone has reported disappearing invoices before.
14:02:06 <jralls> Duplicate numbers shouldn't cause other problems in GnuCash, thought they might well outside of GnuCash, like with your paper filing or with a tracking system.
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14:04:11 <cseiler> It's so weird. When I get a list of unpaid invoices using Find Invoice, I can see invoices are coming out in order, but invoices we have that are present and in hand in paper form are missing. Then chronologically, you can see new invoices pop up with those same numbers.
14:04:22 <jralls> GnuCash does allow reusing invoices, but you have to explicitly unpost and clear them first. Are you using XML or SQL backend.
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14:05:13 <cseiler> XML I think. We are just running it out of the box and didn't set up any database.
14:06:52 <cseiler> When I look at all invoices, I can see that lots are missing. The ones still present are in chronological order. It's as if on occasion it is deleting unpaid invoices and issuing a new invoice with that number overwriting the previously posted invoice. Is it possible the user isn't saving before closing after posting invoices?
14:06:54 <jralls> Well, you can choose SQLite3 and that uses SQL but writes to a local file. Using file explorer look in the folder where you keep your GnuCash files for <filename>.gnucash.<numbers>.gnucash.
14:07:31 <cseiler> Ok. How can I tell? I see the files.
14:09:38 <jralls> If you see files like that then it's the XML backend and those are old versions of the file. The numbers are a timestamp of when the next file was created, so e.g. 20230908114223 would be a file that was superseded today at 11:42:23. The OS's date stamp will tell you when it was actually saved.
14:10:56 <cseiler> Yes, we then have XML
14:11:12 <cseiler> That is the format of our filenames.
14:12:52 <jralls> By default GnuCash deletes the backup files after 30 days, changeable in Preferences>General. If you have external backups (and you should!) you can examine files from before you switched to 5.1.
14:13:21 <cseiler> We started with 5.1
14:17:25 <jralls> OK. You can still look at the backed-up files to see what was the state of those printed-out invoices. That should help figure out how they got reused.
14:18:06 <cseiler> Even if we restore to one of the old files, we would be missing the transactions since then. I think we need to enter the missing ones, once we figure out which ones are missing. It's clear that the receivables are too low when we add up our paper copies of unpaid invoices. How can we get a report that shows a list of invoices? I can see it on the screen using Find, but can I print?
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14:21:56 <jralls> Don't roll back to one of the backups. Open consecutive ones to find one of the "disappeared" invoices and track what happened to it. It's not supposed to be possible to delete invoices, only to reuse them.
14:25:14 <jralls> But speaking of rolling back, sometimes users do that inadvertently. There's a telltale for having done so: The current file is in that backup format and the backups have two or more sets of numbers.
14:27:14 <AdrienM> cseiler, what are your find criteria? If they are too narrow, you might be missing some. Try 'invoice id' 'matches regex' '.' (that's a period) You should then see every invoice that exists.
14:27:19 <jralls> Another thing you can do to track the invoices is to examine the backup files in a text editor. You may need to decompress them using Gnu Zip. The popular 7zip program can do that on Windows. Each invoice has a unique identifier called a guid.
14:28:52 <cseiler> August 21, they are were already gone. It's like they were working along in early August, then the next time, several weeks later, they opened it up again, and they are all gone. Is it possible for them to work, post invoices, not save, and next time pickup with missing invoices?
14:29:30 <cseiler> Theree is not any indication that they rolled back. I don't see any extra numbers.
14:31:48 <jralls> It is possible to quit without saving. GnuCash will put up a dialog box to confirm that you want to, but will obey if told twice.
14:32:57 <cseiler> I asked her if she's doing that, and she says she is pretty sure she would save if prompted, and I think that's right.
14:34:21 <cseiler> AdrienM, I am currently using "Is-posted"
14:34:43 <jralls> Are the transactions associated with the missing invoices present in the current datafile?
14:34:54 <AdrienM> Try my suggestion. I'll bet they are there and "not-posted"
14:35:54 <cseiler> AdrienM. OK, but I thought that the paper copy would indicate that they weren't posted (like they say something like "pending" or "inprocess" at the top)
14:36:41 <AdrienM> I don't recall ever seeing such an indication. Some folks don't post on purpose until payment is received because they work on a cash-basis.
14:37:45 <AdrienM> If they are indeed still there, but unposted, and since you already have duplicates, you can't delete them, but you can re-use them. (change dates, change customers, change line-items, etc.)
14:38:10 <cseiler> AdrienM, gotcha. Yes, there's a clear gap between end of late July and early August. It is as if all early August invoices
14:38:15 <cseiler> are gone.
14:38:17 <AdrienM> And change invoice #s of course, as those can't be duplicated.
14:39:11 <cseiler> OK, so that this point we're just going to re-enter invoices. Is there any way to print a list of invoices, or do we just have to look at the screen?
14:40:06 <cseiler> When I click "printable report" on the Find Invoice screen it doens't print a list, but prints all the invoices, which isn't really what I'm looking for.
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14:42:31 <cseiler> We only have one customer on this account, so maybe there's a way from that direction?
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14:48:18 <AdrienM> cseiler, not that I'm aware of. (printed list) And no, there's not even a way to copy/paste the find results sadly.
14:48:30 <AdrienM> Did you verify that they exist as un-posted?
14:49:06 <jralls> Customer report?
14:49:21 <AdrienM> That doesn't show un-posted documents.
14:51:15 <AdrienM> cseiler, note, if you do *not* have duplicates entered, you don't need to re-enter the 'missing' documents if they indeed exist as un-posted, simply post them.
14:51:36 <cseiler> Adrienm, they are not unposted. Everything is posted. The invoices go in chronological order, there is a time gap where the missing invoices are, and they pick up from there, duplicating the numbers. The only way I can explain is that it looks like it just wasn't saving on the day she was working. We have paper copies, but they aren't there in the program.
14:51:39 <cseiler> They are not posted.
14:52:00 <cseiler> They are not unposted.
14:53:08 <cseiler> I did a search on regex '.' and there is nothing in that date range.
14:54:28 <jralls> What about the transactions? If the invoices were ever posted there will be corresponding transactions in accounts receivable.
14:55:34 <jralls> That points to another thing to look at: The log files for late August will show the transactions getting created.
14:56:33 <jralls> Those will be there even if the file didn't get saved. And BTW, are there backup files corresponding to the work in late August?
14:56:57 <AdrienM> cseiler, also do not limit date range. They may have the wrong dates, years even, by accident.
14:57:23 <cseiler> AdrienM, I am not (intentionally) entering a date range.
14:58:44 <AdrienM> very well then.
15:00:09 <cseiler> jralls, I can see log files in late August indicating invoices using those same invoice numbers for duplicates. We have paper copies and can now see the duplicates. If it wasn't for the paper copies, I'd swear she just never invoiced them earlier, except we have paper copies. It's like nothing happened in mid to late August.
15:02:57 <cseiler> It is like it goes from July 17 to August 21 with nothing. But we clearly have paper copies of invoices she made in early August.
15:03:50 <jralls> Oh, I got confused. I thought that the missing work was late August. What's the date on the paper invoices?
15:06:33 <cseiler> Late August is when the duplicates occur. The missing invoices and activity is from August 7.
15:07:00 <cseiler> Since this is for only one customer, she is using it only once or twice a month.
15:10:31 <jralls> OK. There should be files corresponding to August 7: <filename>.gnucash.20230807xxxxxx.gnucash with a created date in July, <filename>.gnucash.20230821xxxxxx.gnucash with a created date of 7 August, and one or more <filename>.20230807xxxxxx.log. Are they all there?
15:11:15 <jralls> Or is the creation date on <filename>.gnucash.20230821xxxxxx.gnucash in July?
15:12:04 <cseiler> OK, looking at backups from mid August, after the invoices but before the duplcates, and all of the files in the backukps date from mid July. So right after the early August activity, those were already gone. There is no activity until August 21st when she started duplicating. Again, it's like she didn't save it. But there are no logs or auto-saves. It's as if the program couldn't write to disk, but wasn't complaining.
15:12:49 <cseiler> jralls, I'll have to look at that on the backups. I can only see last 30 days from my desk.
15:13:40 <cseiler> but my sense in looking at the backups is that the dates matched and there is no saved activity from mid July to August 21st.
15:13:40 <jralls> Well, you can see the creation date for <filename>.gnucash.20230821xxxxxxx.gnucash. It's less than 30 days old.
15:14:26 <cseiler> Yes, they match. Creation date for 20230921 is indeed 8/21/23
15:14:35 <cseiler> Sorry, 9 should be 8 there.
15:15:59 <jralls> That's the modified date, when GnuCash renamed it from <filename>.gnucash before writing a new <filename>.gnucash.
15:19:27 <cseiler> OK, I'm having to think about this, but I don't see any files with system date of early August even in the backups.
15:21:49 <cseiler> In the current directory the oldest file is dated 8/21/23 8:59AM and is named company.gnucash.20230821085905.gnucash
15:24:02 <jralls> Could she have created the invoices without posting them, printed them, and then quit without saving? That's the only way I can think of that wouldn't have left any logs.
15:24:51 <cseiler> I don't want to spring something new on you, but does the fact that this is a Windows share on the file server have anything to do with it? Is it possible that Windows was thinking it was saving, but not actually doing so?
15:26:28 <cseiler> jralls, that's what I'm thinking, but I just think she's got it pretty well pat to post, and when asking, she is fairly certain that she is posting them. I cannot imagine her ignoring a prompt to save, too.
15:27:09 <cseiler> The backup is what is so weird. There is just no activity in that directory from mid July to August 21st. You'd think there wouuld be logs or auto saves.
15:28:37 <jralls> You'd think. So maybe it saved somewhere else. Tell File Explorer to search for *.gnucash.
15:29:12 <cseiler> that was something I was considering. I can't imagine her trying to save elsewhere, but I'll run a search.
15:29:45 <cseiler> I am also going to upgrade to 5.3.
15:30:00 <cseiler> Is there no way to run a report of invoices for a client?
15:31:04 <jralls> There's a customer report, but as AdrienM pointed out it shows only posted invoices.
15:32:56 <cseiler> BTW, found some files saved elsewhere, but those are from May right after installation.
15:34:33 <jralls> OK. Is there only the one share available on whatever you use for NAS? Could the drive letters have gotten messed up?
15:36:07 <cseiler> No, we have lots of drive letters, but they're fairly stable. It's conceivable at this point.
15:36:59 <cseiler> I ran the customer report and that doesn't have quite enough info, but gives us a starting point.
15:38:23 <cseiler> Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll continue to connect here, but I'll have to go AFK to work on some other things. I think my game plan is to act as if whatever happened in early August just ever got recorded. We'll re-enter that work, and pay them.
15:41:43 <jralls> *Pay* them? That's bills, not invoices, and Vendor report, not Customer report.
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16:38:28 <cseiler> jralls, by *pay* I mean apply payments received from customer.
16:38:44 <jralls> OK.
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