2021-10-12 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:55:19 <chris> jralls: I triggered overflow by buying 1 share for the price of $12,345,678,901,234...
01:02:02 <chris> if $DEITY uses gnucash to track US's national debt then they'll have to use a 128bit cpu...
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01:09:33 <chris> CDB-Man: a last note -- guile uses rational arithmetic internally so if you have 1/3+1/3+1/3 = 0.33+0.33+0.33 = 1.00 -- this mainly effects your shares & fx conversions & summing the columns
01:10:31 * chris doesn't wish to introduce Banker's rounding in reports
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02:01:50 <chris> haha 797796.gnucash fails reconcile because the stock split of 450SPY appears on both sides
02:02:46 <chris> ^ CDB-Man jralls
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04:43:03 <mapreri> fell: 4.6 (from debian unstable)
04:43:17 * mapreri notices a 4.8
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06:27:40 <chris> jralls: this issue is fixed in #1165
06:28:36 <chris> jralls / CDB-Man: to test: load latest datafile from 797796, reconcile stock account using today's balance. it's difficult without #1165 because split->value=0 appears on both dr/cr sides
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16:24:17 <mapreri> Hi again! Looking for a hint on how to record this kind of transaction. As a simplified example, say I pay for a netflix subscription, which my friend also uses. I have an open tab for my friend in Assets:Owed:FriendA because I also do a bunch of other transactions with him. Now, I record the netflix charge in my Liabilities:CreditCard:… against an Expense:Whatever. Then I should also charge a % of it to my friend, so I think I need to debi
16:24:17 <mapreri> t the Assets:Owed:FriendA, but against what should I match it here?…
16:25:25 <mapreri> The only thing that popped to my mind while writing is to set up an Assets:AccountsReceivable for it u.u, could that be…?
16:25:43 <mapreri> (never came to my mind before now to use that anything that are not invoices…)
16:26:40 <jralls-m1> No, your assets:owed is effectively accounts receivable. One way would be to just split the total between expenses and assets:owed.
16:27:26 <jralls-m1> The other would be to balance assets:owed with income:friend:netflix.
16:29:36 <jralls-m1> And btw if you do use invoices you must not do anything manually in accounts payable or you'll break invoicing.
16:34:48 <jralls-m1> Of course you could invoice your friend, then you could use the aging report to keep track of how timely they pay you back.
16:35:05 <mapreri> I have yet to set up the "business" parts of things, so haven't actually touched A/R or A/P fwiw.
16:36:38 <mapreri> (and while taking a 10 mins break I realized how assets:A/R wouldn't make sense since it would zero-out the owed money or such…)
16:36:44 <jralls-m1> OK. Were it me I'd just use the first option, where you do r*payment to assets:owed and (1-r)*payment to expenses, where r is the fraction you charge your friend.
16:39:21 <mapreri> mh wait. (1-r)*payment in expenses: ? what would be the match on the other side then?
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16:41:00 <mapreri> also, I do want the change in liabilities:creditcard: to match the bank statement fwiw, so I don't think I can split the expense: item between assets:owed and it, right?
16:47:02 <mapreri> [12 10:27:26 PM] <@jralls-m1> The other would be to balance assets:owed with income:friend:netflix.
16:47:30 <mapreri> jralls-m1: trying a bit, this would be the one that seems to work best for me. however, what would you say about using something under equities: instead of under income: ? would it make sense?
16:58:29 <jralls-m1> mapreri, the creditcard split stays the same, you simply divide that amount between expenses (your share) and assets:owed (your friend's share).
16:58:59 <jralls-m1> Income and Expense are just special Equity accounts.
16:59:29 <mapreri> mh, that could workd indeed, thank you!
16:59:41 * mapreri tried this and that and that and see how it works out for him
16:59:44 <mapreri> tries*
17:03:29 <jralls-m1> You could also dr expenses for the whole payment and then cr the same account with your friend's share as an offset, though it would make that transaction show up twice.
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17:17:27 <mapreri> jralls-m1: as a practical case, I have this service. this is charged directly to the bank, in USD, but I charge my friend in EUR after conversion, so splitting this particular expense like your suggestion has even other problems.
17:17:59 <mapreri> I have done this now, do you see anything wrong in this procedure? .... wait for the screen that I just realized I forgot to hide a name
17:19:47 <mapreri> jralls-m1: https://volatile.mapreri.org/2021-10-12/0a0ed014b02bb38368db96bf86b783b4/2021-10-12_23-19.png
17:20:28 <mapreri> that's the register from assets:owed:FriendA
17:21:33 <mapreri> (I'm really rather trying not to find myself having to re-process everything a few months down because I set the accounts wrong…)
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17:29:15 <jralls-m1> Is the bank account in USD or in EUR?
17:30:05 <mapreri> in that screen, Assets:Banks:Wise:USD is an account actually in USD. (If that was the question)
17:34:58 <jralls-m1> That's the question. That makes your accounting a bit more complicated. To be strictly legal your expense accounts should be in your home currency, which I suppose is EUR, and you should convert the USD payment to EUR using the rate on the day the charge hits. That means you're going to have trading gains and losses due to the difference in exchange rates when you fund the USD account and when that bank pays your netf
17:34:58 <jralls-m1> lix bill.
17:37:32 <jralls-m1> Turning on trading accounts can help keep track of those trading gains/losses. Turning them on also changes the register display so that all amounts are in the currency for the register you're looking at.
17:37:38 <mapreri> in this particular situation, I have huge troubles computing the fx gain/losses since that USD bank account is funded by a customer that pays USD, so they actually never get converted to/from EUR. though I pay income taxes on that based on the exchange rate on payment date.
17:38:18 <mapreri> I have trading accounts turned on (else indeed would be a mess to record stocks and usd/eur moves, as I noticed heh)
17:39:32 <mapreri> Currently I had set that particular one Expense:Online Services:XXX account to be in USD, since after all they always charge me USD. do you think it's improper/wrong?
17:40:53 <jralls-m1> On the advice of CDB-Man, a licensed accountant, I'm quite sure that it's wrong and quite possibly wrong enough to get you in trouble with the tax folks.
17:43:05 <jralls-m1> You need to get a local accountant's help--one with experience with companies doing business in multiple currencies--to set up your books and show you how to prepare your taxes.
17:44:07 <mapreri> afaik, at least in italy, we don't have to pay capital gain on fx exchange unless the amount of foreign currency we hold for at least 7 consecutive days goes over ~50k
17:44:52 <mapreri> for people at least, no clue on "real" companies (which doesn't apply here, since I'm independent contractor)
17:45:02 <jralls-m1> It's not the trading gains that are important. They probably wash out over time anyway. It's the failing to recognize the USD sales in EUR that's going to get you in trouble.
17:46:16 <mapreri> oh, I think I get what you mean there. yes, that would be annoying.
17:46:41 <jralls-m1> I understand Italian jails aren't very comfortable... :-(
17:47:53 <mapreri> I'll double check this detail with my accountant, though I'm positive that it doesn't matter in my specific fiscal condition ("companies" under a certain yearly income have a hugely simplified accounting requirements that pretty much brush away everything except the final total)
17:49:07 <mapreri> well, getting in jail in Italy is hard in the first place though :P for this kind of accounting errors they just fine you a tiny percentage, so it really mostly doesn't matter for them :D
17:49:13 <jralls-m1> Yeah, but if the final total isn't the real total the tax folks get mad.
17:49:22 <mapreri> the problem is that once they get onto your case they just don't get off it.
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19:31:15 <CDB-Man> You need to reflect your income for tax purposes in EUR at the proper exchange rate
19:32:39 <CDB-Man> The capital gain exception for fx doesn't change the fact that you still need to report the income in EUR
19:32:55 <CDB-Man> It just means you don't need to realize the currency gain on that income
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21:13:26 <chris> CDB-Man: you'll notice, from tomorrow's nightly onwards, dividends will no longer have price==1.000; and stocks with stock splits are reconcilable easily.
21:14:12 <CDB-Man> I probably won't get to testing until the weekend at best
21:20:48 <chris> np
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