2021-09-26 GnuCash IRC logs

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04:52:02 * Simon wonders how he's missing some scheduled transactions
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04:57:41 * Simon finds another one that stops after September
04:58:38 <Simon> last occurrence is 2021-12 for both of them but there are no transactions after 2021-09
04:59:59 <Simon> this roughly corresponds to when I started using v4.6
05:00:29 <Simon> other scheduled transactions are ok, and almost everything is set to 90 days in advance
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05:11:12 <Simon> this is limited to 2 out of 42 scheduled transactions
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05:20:25 <Simon> 2021-09-21 23:00:00 there are 4 SX created but only 3 transactions
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05:27:11 <Simon> it's reproducible if I revert to the earlier file and run with a fake time
05:30:13 <Simon> both transactions have an empty amount but there's another SX like that that is ok
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05:48:20 <Simon> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798262 why is this not a bug? 2.6 creates the transactions but 4.6 doesn't
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05:51:58 <Simon> it does indeed work in 4.5 but not 4.6
06:00:26 <Simon> f7f35faefe7a19ac70871340cda034454f511ae6 is the first bad commit
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06:21:03 <Simon> that commit is shadowing split_is_marker() and gboolean split_is_marker in multiple places, which isn't ideal
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06:23:21 <Simon> I'm not going to attempt to fix this because I'll probably break 797928 or something worse
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08:14:40 <Simon> I've made a test case for it: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1154
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09:41:36 <Simon> Presumably trying to find a currency without "marker" splits and then again with them would work?
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10:30:28 <warlord> .
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11:30:11 <chris> ninja outputs: <schema id='org.gnucash.GnuCash.dialogs.import.hbci.connection-dialog'/>
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12:40:26 <jralls> Simon SXes with no amount/value in any split is a dubious use case.
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13:59:51 <Simon> That may be, but I don't think silently ignoring them was intended?
14:01:04 <Simon> It's far from dubious to have all empty splits so that an amount can be entered later... and I'm fairly sure you can't enter 0 in the register so empty is the standard representation of it
14:01:26 <jralls> No, that's exactly what's dubious.
14:02:20 <jralls> GnuCash is for accounting, not calendaring.
14:02:21 <Simon> my monthly credit card payment is always on the same day of the month, so I have an empty transaction for that in future months
14:02:47 <Simon> I can then enter an amount for the future payment when I start making transactions beyond the statement date
14:03:16 <Simon> you're proposing I keep no record of when the future payment will be because it is provisionally 0?
14:04:07 <jralls> Or you can do it the way SXes are designed and have the SX fire on the day, you enter the amount into the SLR, and the txn is recorded.
14:04:47 <jralls> Again, GnuCash isn't for calendaring. You can't "record" the future, it hasn't happened yet.
14:05:02 <Simon> which day? there's no point entering it on the day it gets paid, I need to know how in advance that I'm not going to have a negative balance
14:05:38 <Simon> if I can't record the future then why is there an option to create the SX in advance at all?
14:06:00 <jralls> A 0 amount does you no good on that score. If you generally know the amount a week in advance have the SX fire a week in advance.
14:06:25 <Simon> and the final reason for why your proposed work flow doesn't work is that I open GnuCash to *do* something, not be forced to enter SX amounts into a dialog box
14:07:06 <Simon> it would be extremely frustrating to be forced to stop whatever I'm about to do in order to login to online banking and find the latest statement
14:07:33 <jralls> If you don't want to enter the amount when you start mark the SX deferred and close the dialog. You can run it later.
14:07:44 <Simon> I think it's too late to be arguing that GnuCash does not support future transactions
14:08:13 <jralls> If you want GnuCash to work just your way, it's Free software. Fork it and customize it to your heart's content.
14:08:15 <Simon> I can work around this by setting the formula to 0 but that is not natural compared to the register entry
14:09:21 <jralls> Sorry, I don't understand that last bit.
14:09:32 <Simon> if I enter a zero value transaction in the register, it becomes empty
14:09:51 <Simon> therefore it is reasonable to assume that if I want to make an SX like that then I can enter empty values
14:10:10 <Simon> if that's not supported it should produce an error
14:10:43 <Simon> I can even enter a 0 in both debit and credit in the SX and it'll work and become empty in the register
14:11:36 <Simon> I'm sure the bug fix for 797928 wasn't intended to break the existing behaviour?
14:11:48 <Simon> in the example https://bugs.gnucash.org/attachment.cgi?id=373857 there are other splits with an amount
14:12:26 <jralls> I'm sure the bug fix for 797928 didn't take your use case into account at all.
14:12:31 <Simon> so trying to find the currency by matching all non-empty splits first, and then all splits if that fails would satisfy both bugs
14:12:56 <Simon> actually, in that example the formula amount is zero...
14:13:48 <Simon> it's only a "marker" split if the formula is empty
14:14:49 <jralls> But as you pointed out a 0 SX split turns into an empty real split.
14:15:29 <Simon> yes but it's not obvious that you need to do that for it to create the transacton
14:15:30 <jralls> The debit and credit formulae in SX splits are strings that are parsed into expressions by the SLR.
14:15:59 <Simon> it looks like you're explicitly allowing and expecting an empty forumla for the dividend association split in an SX?
14:16:27 <Simon> otherwise I assume that's what causes the exchange rate dialog
14:18:11 <Simon> I expect there are going to be a lot of people with all-empty SX splits that will be affected by 4.6 no longer creating them
14:18:12 <jralls> OK, I don't remember the details at this point.
14:19:04 <Simon> none of this will affect me because I'll just continue to build a version that fixes it
14:19:21 <jralls> But I agree that it shouldn't silently drop SXes, so it should raise an error if there aren't any splits with an amount.
14:20:09 <jralls> Or rather there aren't at least two splits with a formula. It's not an amount until the SLR runs.
14:21:11 <Simon> if I try to create a new SX by copying an empty transaction, it's going to create an SX with an error
14:22:22 <jralls> That won't be the only way to create a broken SX from a working transaction. Currency exchange rates trip people up a lot more frequently.
14:23:29 <Simon> I don't see what the benefit is of making it more difficult to create an SX; presumably if there are two transactions in the SX and one is all-empty splits it's not going to create either of them?
14:24:42 <jralls> I don't know if that's the case.
14:25:06 <Simon> well it can't create one of them and then error on the other, that would be misleading
14:25:54 <jralls> You mean that it shouldn't create one and error on the other. What it should do and what it does are often different.
14:26:20 <jralls> As are people's opinions about what it should do.
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15:36:03 *** jralls changes topic to "Free GPL Personal and Small Business Accounting || Moderated mode: To get a voice, register with NickServ and then re-join. || Please don't ask to ask, just ask and wait! (Possibly a few hours!!) || publicly-logged channel || latest stable: 4.7 || www.gnucash.org || wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/"
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16:30:24 <warlord> jralls, congrats on 4.7
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18:05:39 <gjanssens> .
18:05:39 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 20 hours and 37 minutes ago: <chris> thanks the datafile load issue is gone with 4.7
18:06:03 <gjanssens> chris: you're welcome
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21:03:54 <j0hnn3> I'm unable to enter transactions that are below some size threshold for a Stock account. I have Security X with "Fraction traded" = 1/1000000. I make an account and add some X. Then I create a new transaction with Transfer=(some USD account), Shares/Buy/Price=empty, and Sell=0.0009. When I hit Enter, I'd normally expect the popup that lets me enter
21:03:54 <j0hnn3> the exchange rate. But instead, I just get an empty transaction.
21:04:21 <j0hnn3> If I right-click on the transaction and choose Edit Exchange Rate, it says, "This register does not support editing exchange rates"
21:04:26 <j0hnn3> Why would it say that?
21:13:21 <j0hnn3> Ah, it looks like if I create the transaction from a commodity account, things get weird like this. If I go create the same transaction but from the currency account, it works.
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