2021-02-17 GnuCash IRC logs

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06:11:40 <chris> warlord: when you finalize your email do remember the protagonist has been removed from the cc list so you may wish to add before sending...
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08:06:30 <warlord> chris, thanks for the reminder.
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10:16:39 <chris> CDB-Man not sure balsheet-pnl can handle incorrect acct type hierarchy... it counts acct-levels absolutely and if you limit depth to 2 then your lvl.3 acct definitely won't show
10:17:06 <CDB-Man> How does legacy do it then?
10:17:33 <chris> beats me... the acct scanner digs into nested accts differently
10:18:57 <chris> original coder 20yrs ago didn't exactly create good documentation
10:25:34 <warlord> The levels should limit display separation and indicate how to roll up deeper accounts. So if you have A:B:C:D but level =3 it will show A:B:C but that should include D in the C total.
10:26:53 <chris> warlord: the issue is A[EXP]:B[EXP]:C[INC] -- on the income statement which level should C show? legacy reports say (drum roll) ONE
10:31:41 <warlord> That's a good question -- and I kind of hit that in the Balance Sheet myself where I had A[A]:B[A]:C[A]:D[L] and I was expecting A:B to sum to 0, but it wasn't (because D wasn't included in the total -- because it was a Liability acct)
10:32:25 <warlord> But D was showing up in the Liabilities section. I don't recall whether it said D or A:B:C:D. I suppose I could revert that change and re-test to verify what it was doing.
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12:06:47 <AdrienM> I don't envy you folks. Shouldn't types be enforced? (or at least mixed-types not supported?) A liability under an asset is more properly a contra-asset account, for example.
12:07:26 <warlord> AdrienM, types are enforced, but A and L are considered the "same" type for that enforcement..
12:08:25 <warlord> In my case, it was a record of tax liability paid to me by the seller of a property. So I recorded it as a liability instead of a negative-asset.
12:08:25 <AdrienM> I'm sure there is an interesting reason for it...
12:09:00 <AdrienM> Or putting it under Liabilities...
12:10:12 <AdrienM> Could this be an artifact of trying to create reports 'sub-book' on various projects/properties/etc?
12:10:36 <AdrienM> If the PnL supported the Filter option, that could be cleaned up considerably.
12:11:14 <AdrienM> And I'll throw in Balance sheet as well. (could it not be a standard option for *all* reports/charts?)
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13:25:58 <CDB-PHONE> I forget what I said on the topic over the weekend
13:26:25 <CDB-PHONE> but having recently reviewed today some of the accounting standards at work
13:27:07 <CDB-PHONE> given the tree of a misfit account type, it should roll up into the account by type and not by tree
13:27:33 <CDB-PHONE> meaning if the liability is sitting at level 4 of the asset tree, it should be reported on in the liabilities side
13:27:56 <CDB-PHONE> and excluded from parent account total
13:28:11 <CDB-PHONE> parent asset account that is
13:29:00 <CDB-PHONE> while the tree may reflect business everyday operational use
13:29:10 <CDB-PHONE> reporting "doesn't care"
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17:09:44 <jivan> Hello, all — website seems to have been down for some time (a week or so), does anyone know what's up?
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17:18:03 <jonp> "support question": is there a way to have two transactions "linked" other than Split transactions?
17:18:48 <jonp> i have a situation in which a financial transaction happens at time T, within which I know the tax values, but that tax info is "duplicated" at time T+2 weeks, as part of a pay check.
17:19:30 <jonp> and short of having "duplicate tax information" being recorded, i'm not sure how to sanely reconcile this short of editing the original transaction and removing all the tax info, merging it into the pay check transaction
17:20:13 <jonp> which…works? but feels quasi distasteful, as it means I "lose" the tax info for the transaction at time T, as it's "merged" into the pay check transaction.
17:21:09 <jonp> unrelated: www.gnucash.org appears to be down?
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17:48:12 <jivan> jonp: Indeed, it has been down for a week or so now, which is what I came here to ask about
17:48:35 <jivan> Can you elaborate on the transaction in your question?
17:48:48 <jivan> Like an example with numbers?
17:49:29 <jonp> not real numbers. :-)
17:49:33 <jivan> Of course
17:52:11 <jonp> Split transaction { summary: exercise options; net: $100; fed tax: $40; state tax: $6; commission: $.05; medicare: $10; social security: $10; net: $33.95 }
17:52:49 <jonp> paycheck transaction likewise has the same entries -- fed tax, state tax, etc. -- but has the *sum* of all split transactions for a given time period *plus* other taxes
17:53:58 <jonp> which means for me, currently, "fed tax" has "duplicate" values: the fed tax account shows *both* entries, but the latter includes the former!
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17:57:51 <jivan> Let me check I'm understanding correctly: you receive a paycheck e.g. every month, which breaks down taxes payable on the pay for that month. However, that paycheck (and associated taxes) account for transactions (and associated taxes) that you've already accounted for elsewhere?
17:58:03 <jonp> yes
17:58:03 <jivan> That is, transactions which have occurred in the same month?
17:58:21 <jonp> yes
17:58:33 <jivan> I guess the question then becomes: why do you want to account for the individual transactions rather than just inputting your paychecks and nothing else?
17:59:27 <jonp> the *income* from the split transaction happens earlier than the paycheck. the *taxes* for the split transaction are also on the pay check.
17:59:35 <jonp> so i need *a* transaction to record the income to e.g. checking
17:59:48 <jonp> now, perhaps that transaction should be "just net", no taxes. sure.
18:00:08 <jonp> which raises the next question: why do i want/need the taxes specific to the original split?
18:00:15 <jonp> i suppose i don't, other than curiosity.
18:01:00 <jonp> a "complexity" though is around reconcilation:
18:01:07 <jonp> actions > reconcile
18:01:18 <jonp> as i reconcile checking *between* paychecks, because thats when i get the statement.
18:01:30 <jonp> (guess i could just leave that 'til EOM, when i get the paycheck…)
18:02:26 <jivan> At the risk of over-complicating things, perhaps a tax liability account is in order if you really want to include the tax amount on these split transactions rather than just from the paychecks
18:02:55 <jonp> that's something i haven't used before.
18:03:06 <jivan> I'm not sure I understand your statement situation, but I'dd otherwise just err on the side of only inputting the taxes when they appear on the paycheck
18:04:12 <jivan> It may be worth asking an accountant about this to see what their approach is; I'm based in the UK and I can't think of any situation similar to what you're describing
18:04:58 <jivan> There is also money.stackexchange.com, which has a "gnucash" tag
18:05:02 <jonp> i'll need to do that. thanks!
18:05:10 <jivan> So you may find some helpful advice there
18:05:45 <jivan> Just to explain what I meant with a tax liability account ...
18:06:59 <jivan> ... it would be a liability account that, when you have the info about one of these split transactions, you would enter the tax splits into e.g. Liabilities:Tax from Expenses:Tax, and the income from the transaction as net income before tax
18:07:08 <jivan> So the tax is sort of separate from the income
18:07:15 <jivan> e.g. with your amounts from earlier:
18:07:43 <jonp> i like that idea
18:07:53 <jivan> • DR Income $100, CR Assets $100, DR Expenses:Tax $66.05, CR Liabilities:Tax $66.05
18:08:16 <jivan> Then when you get your paycheck, let's say its $1000 before tax and the tax, including the $66.05 from the split, is $200
18:08:48 <jivan> (Oh, aplogies, CR Income and DR Assets above)
18:09:52 <jivan> You'd do: CR Income $1000, DR Liabilities:Tax $66.05, DR Expenses:Tax (200–66.05)=$133.95, DR Assets $800
18:11:41 <jivan> After all that, the liability account is at zero, your assets are up the $100 from the first transaction, plus the $800 from the paycheck after taxes, and you've recorded $200 as a tax expense
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19:15:54 <warlord> jonp, www is down due to storm issues in Austin, TX.
19:17:10 <warlord> jonp, just post the net; when you reconcile, the checking account is unaware of the taxes, so there's nothing to do.
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19:46:46 <chris> jralls: if you can assist with bug 797737 it'll be great. otherwise i'll vote revert this change. i don't quite know how the data structures work.
19:47:17 <chris> oops 798128
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20:31:20 <warlord> chris, do you think I can add Wm and send the message all at the same time?
20:33:13 <warlord> I guess so. Should I remove him again?
20:34:15 <CDB-PHONE> I vote yes
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20:34:45 <warlord> I'll leave him on the CC for now... I don't think anyone else is going to respond to the bug ... but I want to see his response (if any).
20:34:54 <warlord> I'm off for the night. TTFN.
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20:39:11 <CDB-Work> indeed, given the 24 hour ultimatum,. i can certainly wait 24 hours to reply if i did have anythning (I do not and work is all consuming this week)
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