2021-02-16 GnuCash IRC logs

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08:59:32 <warlord> fell: I can certainly set up apache to accept *.wiki.gnucash.org -- but not sure what I'm supposed to do with that.
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09:14:28 <chris_> warlord: i'm tempted to ask you to create a 'vetted list of bugzilla users'
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09:23:01 <warlord> chris, I don't know how to do that.
09:23:08 <warlord> I don't know if BZ allows that.
09:23:49 <chris> https://www.bugzilla.org/docs/4.4/en/html/groups.html#users-and-groups ?
09:27:22 <warlord> I don't think you can prevent someone editing their own bugs... And I definitely don't think we want to have to admin-vet EVERY user that wants to submit a bug just to prevent one user from spamming.
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09:32:51 <chris> shame... rotten apple etc
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09:35:53 <warlord> yeah.
09:38:00 <chris> because we want to be more welcoming to CDB-👨/📱 and others... doesn't look good for a newcomer
09:39:30 <warlord> It looks bad either way. Making a newcomer jump through a dozen hoops to file (or comment on) a bug report is just an unwelcoming.
09:39:57 <warlord> I think CDB-PHONE knows than Wm does not represent the core of the users/group
09:40:45 <chris> but the average passer-by
09:40:47 <chris> doesn't
09:43:50 <warlord> Perhaps. But really there's just no good solution.
09:49:57 <chris> I think this is an acute problem... This means that SNR drops significantly. Moderation is the only approach remaining to maintain the utility of BZ IMHO -- it could be limited to some bugs only
09:54:05 <CDB-PHONE> we use Mantis bug tracker on another website, the front end allows moderators to easily delete ticket reply messages
09:54:16 <CDB-PHONE> no need to visit the database
09:55:10 <CDB-PHONE> I am highly annoyed by wm Even though I know he's not representative
09:55:23 <warlord> Everyone is highly annoyed at Wm
09:55:30 <CDB-PHONE> some passerby is going to think I'm a complete idiot reading the wm comments
09:55:45 <CDB-PHONE> they should at least be deleted even if we can't silence him
09:56:17 <warlord> It's a serious PITB to do that.
09:56:51 <CDB-PHONE> need a better tool than BZ :)
09:57:05 <warlord> Maybe...
09:57:34 <CDB-PHONE> tracker.anidb.net if you want to poke around a Mantis instance
10:01:32 <CDB-PHONE> what would happen if you were to reply to wm's latest message, warlord?
10:01:50 <CDB-PHONE> is he going to tell you off the same way he told off Jim?
10:02:04 <chris> ^ likely
10:02:05 <warlord> Bug URL?
10:02:38 <chris> 797796
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10:32:04 <CDB-PHONE> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797796
10:33:34 <CDB-PHONE> we play whack a mole with these people and ban them and any alias accounts until they give up
10:34:08 <CDB-PHONE> it's easier for us to ban than it is for them to create new accounts, so we usually win in the end
10:34:27 <CDB-PHONE> on AniDB
10:34:57 <CDB-PHONE> forum trolls typically give up after 5 aliases
10:36:34 <CDB-PHONE> question, does Wm write any code, or is he only talk?
10:37:41 <warlord> as far as I know only talk, but gjanssens and jralls would know for sure.
10:38:08 <warlord> The issue is with yahoo and gmail, creating new accounts is pretty easy.
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10:44:16 <gjanssens> CDB-PHONE: Wm has only talked as far as I know.
10:44:42 <gjanssens> But I actually am on the side of trying to ban him, even if that takes considerable effort.
10:45:41 <gjanssens> He has more than once illustrated to be very insultive for no good reason (there never is in a technical community by the way) and will not stop when asked.
10:46:09 <gjanssens> He once got me almost burnt out as well in the past. This is as chris says a rotten apple.
10:46:13 <gjanssens> We don't need this.
10:47:02 <gjanssens> And I like to believe they eventually give up, but I can't tell. I have never been in such a situation before.
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10:49:25 <CDB-PHONE> [10:38] (~warlord) The issue is with yahoo and gmail, creating new accounts is pretty easy.
10:49:35 <CDB-PHONE> still more work than you asking an
10:49:47 <CDB-PHONE> adding an email to a ban list
10:50:31 <warlord> Perhaps. I am happy to give him a "final warning" but I'd want community help on the text.
10:54:15 * chris thinks he's been given enough final warnings
10:54:29 <chris> maybe not in bz but plenty elsewhere
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12:21:34 <CDB-PHONE> [10:50] (~warlord) Perhaps. I am happy to give him a "final warning" but I'd want community help on the text.
12:21:55 <CDB-PHONE> are you soliciting opinions?
12:23:44 <CDB-PHONE> "Wm, the various project leads have repeatedly asked you to respect other members of the community, but you continue to show poor behaviour and a lack of collegiality and respect. This is your final warning before we blacklist you from further participation."
12:23:56 <CDB-PHONE> as a starting point, here's something I would write
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12:34:38 * jralls hates Mantis. Gramps uses it. Search is vestigial and most categorization other than severity is free text so finding old bugs is painful.
12:46:44 <jralls> warlord, it should be pretty easy to find Wm's IP range and determine if it's in use by anyone else. If it isn't we could just stop him from connecting to code at all.
12:49:22 <warlord> jralls, that's an option...
12:49:27 <warlord> A pretty big hammer
12:49:36 <warlord> CDB-PHONE, That's a good start..
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12:50:24 <CDB-PHONE> warlord we use iptables bans at AniDB as well
12:59:59 <warlord> CDB-PHONE, Oh, technically it's not hard to do an IP ban... It's just that if Wm has dynamic IP (likely) then it could affect other people (also likely)
13:03:51 <jralls> Dynamic IP isn't all that dynamic. Mine doesn't change very often.
13:05:12 <jralls> At least my v4 one doesn't, I haven't done paid much attention to the v6 one except to notice that it's now obvious to the world that I have more than one computer.
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13:47:16 <CDB-PHONE> understand warlord, and hence the comment from jralls about using a range and narrowing it down
13:47:36 <CDB-PHONE> regarding categorization, we don't use the tags on Mantis
13:47:42 <CDB-PHONE> only the project categories
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16:35:09 <TownsendHardware> We've upgraded to v4.4 and the oddest thing has happened. When we pay a vendor, it's always true that multiple bills (invoices) and/or credit memos are dealt with. As a rule, we list the vendor's invoice numbers in the memo when processing the payment. Now, when we look at the vendor report, that memo line is duplicated as many times as the number of invoices paid (splits). Anyone know how to stop this?
17:28:24 <AdrienM> Wm has been 'suspended' several times from -user. (not sure if currently serving one or not) And I don't think he's employed new accounts to circumvent that. A BZ ban might stick. (I never see his replies anymore because I set up a mail filter to auto-trash them it got so bad. I'll occasionally see someone reply to him, but it has been some time)
17:30:04 <AdrienM> TownsendHardware, I'm pretty sure that is an already filed bug. I think there are two of them, one for your case, and another for the transaction itself having the Notes field overwritten with the first Memo.
17:30:30 <jralls> He's actually on moderation, meaning that Liz Dodd has to approve his emails before they go to the list. But you're right, if he's tried to circumvent it he either was on his best behavior or he failed.
17:31:13 <TownsendHardware> We appreciate knowing. Thanks!
17:32:15 <AdrienM> You can leave the Memo blank when entering the payment, and then edit the Memos (not from the AP account, the payment account) and put the invoice #s there. Also the current version of the Vendor (and Customer) Report has a Display option to show Transaction Links (simple or detailed) which will indicate which invoices were paid with which payment and vice versa.
17:33:04 <AdrienM> jralls, thanks for the clarification.
17:40:34 <CDB-PHONE> AdrienM: his most recent infraction is about 17 replies in https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797796 which is a long discussion on the structural issue of currency that I've been having on IRC here with the various players
17:40:51 <CDB-PHONE> both jr and Chris that is
17:41:14 <CDB-PHONE> I guess he didn't like me at first glance and felt the need to totally discredit me!
17:42:07 <CDB-PHONE> I'm curious if he has any professional licences, like a CPA or CFA equivalent in the UK
17:42:25 <CDB-PHONE> or if it's all in his own mind
17:43:31 <jralls> ¯AFAICT it's all in his own mind. He's like a 14 year old: He thinks he knows everything while knowing next to nothing.
17:43:37 <AdrienM> Yeah, I read that bug yesterday. Best I can offer is to try to ignore him. The other participating know better, and I've been semi-following that discussion here on IRC, so I already knew whatever he was spouting was nonsense. And on top of it, I'm already familiar with his ranting to ignore him myself.
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17:48:31 <AdrienM> Power outage?
17:48:43 <AdrienM> Nearly everyone dropped at once and re-joined.
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17:49:46 <warlord> could be.
17:49:50 <warlord> Or just a net split.
17:50:02 <AdrienM> net split? that's a new one on me.
17:50:30 <AdrienM> Interesting.
17:51:14 <CDB-PHONE> net split most likely
17:51:43 <CDB-PHONE> meaning one of the federated servers briefly dropped
17:51:50 <CDB-PHONE> [17:47] (+AdrienM) Just read that, but again, more childish ranting. I'd welcome removing it from the bug convo, but whatever the devs think is best. I've managed to avoid him, not feed him, and otherwise just let him 'roll off' my back. Of course, I'm not personally invested in all of that work and he didn't attack me, so I understand it isn't so easy.
17:52:09 <CDB-PHONE> yeah it's hard when you're the subject of the attack, rather than the observer
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17:55:18 <AdrienM> CDB-PHONE, also be wary of discounting the discernment of others. I'd wager most reasonable people reading that bug are more likely to see the childish behavior and quickly discount all further comments by that poster. He occasionally will make a semi-valid point, and then can't help himself. He's his own enemy there.
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17:56:31 <CDB-PHONE> indeed, though I tend to err on the pessimistic view of humanity ;)
17:57:11 <AdrienM> I've found that people employing such abrasiveness tend to think people don't listen to them, or they somehow feel inferior, and don't realize their behavior turns others off, and proves their original fear, like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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17:57:56 <AdrienM> Sometimes I get that way too, then I remember to "Don't Worry, Relax and Have a Homebrew!"
18:00:37 <CDB-PHONE> indeed, 💯 agree with the comment on self fulfilling prophecy
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19:46:19 <fell> jralls, IP blocking is a bad idea. Every mornig I get a different IP and if I get blocked by code, I restart my router and have anthor IP.
19:47:48 <fell> And I remember someone who's mail was bounced by a recipient, because a year before a spammer had her recent IP.
19:49:46 <jralls> Yeah, I got a mail blocked a month ago because one of my ISP's MTA's had found its way into SpamCop.
19:52:02 <jralls> You're changing IPs are selected from a small pool of addresses that your ISP assigns to your first-hop router. It's pretty easy for warlord to figure out Wm's pool from the webserver logs; he can see if anyone else is getting addresses from the same pool.
19:53:22 <jralls> It's an extreme measure to be sure. We all hope it will be sufficient to just lock his account.
19:55:22 <fell> From the google guess of the location, it is ca. a county here.
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19:56:53 <jralls> Of which location? Wm's?
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20:12:14 <fell> no, here.
20:23:13 <warlord> Okay, so it's probably
20:23:55 <warlord> That has two POSTs to the bug at the timestamps of Wm's comments.
20:24:49 <warlord> But there are also POSTs by an Australian ;)
20:25:22 <chris> who's the down under one?
20:26:45 <warlord>
20:27:03 <warlord> Not sure what happened at those timestamps. Could just be accessing the bug.
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20:29:20 <chris> O_o
20:34:35 <chris> CDB: more breathing space in your bug.
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20:46:00 <CDB-PHONE> neat, it can even mark the message as spam or abuse (or both)
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23:15:18 <CDB-PHONE> Chris: it's also technically jralls' bug since he filed it :)
23:22:47 <jralls> > Tue-16:27 chris has joined (chris@ :::::> Tue-17:25 chris: who's the down under one? ::::: > Tue-17:26 warlord: ::::: What a coincidence! ;->
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