2021-02-16 GnuCash IRC logs

00:45:03 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
01:09:34 *** fell has quit IRC
01:10:53 *** fell has joined #gnucash
01:10:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
01:18:23 *** Aussie_matt has quit IRC
01:18:35 *** David has quit IRC
01:18:43 *** ericdm5 has joined #gnucash
01:18:55 *** ericdm has quit IRC
01:18:55 *** ericdm5 is now known as ericdm
01:19:20 *** crossan007_ has quit IRC
01:19:22 *** crossan007_ has joined #gnucash
01:19:50 *** David has joined #gnucash
01:38:29 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
01:45:27 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
01:59:40 *** suukim has joined #gnucash
02:00:05 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
02:46:03 *** AdrienM has quit IRC
02:46:52 *** AdrienM has joined #gnucash
02:46:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v AdrienM
03:29:25 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
03:29:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o gjanssens
04:52:05 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
04:57:12 *** Aussie_matt has joined #gnucash
05:15:58 *** Taiga003 has quit IRC
05:17:35 *** truelehr has quit IRC
05:31:31 *** field^Mop has joined #gnucash
05:42:30 *** qwer has joined #gnucash
05:48:43 *** User_ has joined #gnucash
06:07:50 *** User_ has quit IRC
06:24:21 *** PowaBanga has quit IRC
06:52:38 *** halipaul has joined #gnucash
07:28:45 *** AdrienM has quit IRC
07:55:29 *** Aussie_matt has quit IRC
07:59:59 *** chris_ has joined #gnucash
08:01:36 *** chris has quit IRC
08:19:31 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
08:20:27 *** Jimraehl1 has quit IRC
08:22:30 *** field^Mop has quit IRC
08:31:26 *** AdrienM has joined #gnucash
08:31:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v AdrienM
08:33:04 *** mydogsnameisrudy has joined #gnucash
08:35:15 *** storyjesse has joined #gnucash
08:49:14 *** mydogsnameisrudy has quit IRC
08:51:59 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
08:59:32 <warlord> fell: I can certainly set up apache to accept *.wiki.gnucash.org -- but not sure what I'm supposed to do with that.
08:59:59 *** AdrienM has quit IRC
09:00:07 *** AdrienM has joined #gnucash
09:00:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v AdrienM
09:14:28 <chris_> warlord: i'm tempted to ask you to create a 'vetted list of bugzilla users'
09:14:30 *** chris_ is now known as chris
09:23:01 <warlord> chris, I don't know how to do that.
09:23:08 <warlord> I don't know if BZ allows that.
09:23:49 <chris> https://www.bugzilla.org/docs/4.4/en/html/groups.html#users-and-groups ?
09:27:22 <warlord> I don't think you can prevent someone editing their own bugs... And I definitely don't think we want to have to admin-vet EVERY user that wants to submit a bug just to prevent one user from spamming.
09:28:27 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
09:32:51 <chris> shame... rotten apple etc
09:35:12 *** jervin has quit IRC
09:35:53 <warlord> yeah.
09:38:00 <chris> because we want to be more welcoming to CDB-👨/📱 and others... doesn't look good for a newcomer
09:39:30 <warlord> It looks bad either way. Making a newcomer jump through a dozen hoops to file (or comment on) a bug report is just an unwelcoming.
09:39:57 <warlord> I think CDB-PHONE knows than Wm does not represent the core of the users/group
09:40:45 <chris> but the average passer-by
09:40:47 <chris> doesn't
09:43:50 <warlord> Perhaps. But really there's just no good solution.
09:49:57 <chris> I think this is an acute problem... This means that SNR drops significantly. Moderation is the only approach remaining to maintain the utility of BZ IMHO -- it could be limited to some bugs only
09:54:05 <CDB-PHONE> we use Mantis bug tracker on another website, the front end allows moderators to easily delete ticket reply messages
09:54:16 <CDB-PHONE> no need to visit the database
09:55:10 <CDB-PHONE> I am highly annoyed by wm Even though I know he's not representative
09:55:23 <warlord> Everyone is highly annoyed at Wm
09:55:30 <CDB-PHONE> some passerby is going to think I'm a complete idiot reading the wm comments
09:55:45 <CDB-PHONE> they should at least be deleted even if we can't silence him
09:56:17 <warlord> It's a serious PITB to do that.
09:56:51 <CDB-PHONE> need a better tool than BZ :)
09:57:05 <warlord> Maybe...
09:57:34 <CDB-PHONE> tracker.anidb.net if you want to poke around a Mantis instance
10:01:32 <CDB-PHONE> what would happen if you were to reply to wm's latest message, warlord?
10:01:50 <CDB-PHONE> is he going to tell you off the same way he told off Jim?
10:02:04 <chris> ^ likely
10:02:05 <warlord> Bug URL?
10:02:38 <chris> 797796
10:04:10 *** suukim has quit IRC
10:23:55 *** storyjesse has quit IRC
10:32:04 <CDB-PHONE> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797796
10:33:34 <CDB-PHONE> we play whack a mole with these people and ban them and any alias accounts until they give up
10:34:08 <CDB-PHONE> it's easier for us to ban than it is for them to create new accounts, so we usually win in the end
10:34:27 <CDB-PHONE> on AniDB
10:34:57 <CDB-PHONE> forum trolls typically give up after 5 aliases
10:36:34 <CDB-PHONE> question, does Wm write any code, or is he only talk?
10:37:41 <warlord> as far as I know only talk, but gjanssens and jralls would know for sure.
10:38:08 <warlord> The issue is with yahoo and gmail, creating new accounts is pretty easy.
10:38:44 *** bertbob has quit IRC
10:40:10 *** ArtGravity has joined #gnucash
10:40:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v ArtGravity
10:44:16 <gjanssens> CDB-PHONE: Wm has only talked as far as I know.
10:44:42 <gjanssens> But I actually am on the side of trying to ban him, even if that takes considerable effort.
10:45:41 <gjanssens> He has more than once illustrated to be very insultive for no good reason (there never is in a technical community by the way) and will not stop when asked.
10:46:09 <gjanssens> He once got me almost burnt out as well in the past. This is as chris says a rotten apple.
10:46:13 <gjanssens> We don't need this.
10:47:02 <gjanssens> And I like to believe they eventually give up, but I can't tell. I have never been in such a situation before.
10:48:22 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
10:48:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
10:49:25 <CDB-PHONE> [10:38] (~warlord) The issue is with yahoo and gmail, creating new accounts is pretty easy.
10:49:35 <CDB-PHONE> still more work than you asking an
10:49:47 <CDB-PHONE> adding an email to a ban list
10:50:31 <warlord> Perhaps. I am happy to give him a "final warning" but I'd want community help on the text.
10:54:15 * chris thinks he's been given enough final warnings
10:54:29 <chris> maybe not in bz but plenty elsewhere
10:56:44 *** guak has joined #gnucash
11:09:49 *** jcarl43 has joined #gnucash
11:09:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v jcarl43
11:22:25 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
11:22:37 *** mydogsnameisrudy has joined #gnucash
11:24:21 *** mydogsnameisrudy has quit IRC
11:38:26 *** truelehr has quit IRC
11:51:05 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
11:51:33 *** truelehr has quit IRC
12:14:05 *** qwer has quit IRC
12:21:34 <CDB-PHONE> [10:50] (~warlord) Perhaps. I am happy to give him a "final warning" but I'd want community help on the text.
12:21:55 <CDB-PHONE> are you soliciting opinions?
12:23:44 <CDB-PHONE> "Wm, the various project leads have repeatedly asked you to respect other members of the community, but you continue to show poor behaviour and a lack of collegiality and respect. This is your final warning before we blacklist you from further participation."
12:23:56 <CDB-PHONE> as a starting point, here's something I would write
12:32:17 *** field^Mop has joined #gnucash
12:34:38 * jralls hates Mantis. Gramps uses it. Search is vestigial and most categorization other than severity is free text so finding old bugs is painful.
12:46:44 <jralls> warlord, it should be pretty easy to find Wm's IP range and determine if it's in use by anyone else. If it isn't we could just stop him from connecting to code at all.
12:49:22 <warlord> jralls, that's an option...
12:49:27 <warlord> A pretty big hammer
12:49:36 <warlord> CDB-PHONE, That's a good start..
12:50:12 *** angel has joined #gnucash
12:50:24 <CDB-PHONE> warlord we use iptables bans at AniDB as well
12:59:59 <warlord> CDB-PHONE, Oh, technically it's not hard to do an IP ban... It's just that if Wm has dynamic IP (likely) then it could affect other people (also likely)
13:03:51 <jralls> Dynamic IP isn't all that dynamic. Mine doesn't change very often.
13:05:12 <jralls> At least my v4 one doesn't, I haven't done paid much attention to the v6 one except to notice that it's now obvious to the world that I have more than one computer.
13:10:23 *** angel has quit IRC
13:20:11 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
13:39:04 *** truelehr has left #gnucash
13:41:23 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
13:47:16 <CDB-PHONE> understand warlord, and hence the comment from jralls about using a range and narrowing it down
13:47:36 <CDB-PHONE> regarding categorization, we don't use the tags on Mantis
13:47:42 <CDB-PHONE> only the project categories
14:19:51 *** Hamaryns has joined #gnucash
14:19:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Hamaryns
14:21:31 *** jervin has quit IRC
14:21:58 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
14:22:49 *** jervin has quit IRC
14:22:56 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
14:35:44 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
14:37:41 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
14:38:14 *** David has quit IRC
14:38:22 *** David has joined #gnucash
14:49:07 *** guak has quit IRC
14:49:50 *** guak has joined #gnucash
14:50:43 *** mikey has quit IRC
14:51:11 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
14:52:03 *** Hamaryns has quit IRC
14:55:38 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
15:14:22 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
15:36:27 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
15:51:07 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
15:58:16 *** field^Mop has quit IRC
16:00:08 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
16:00:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v frakturfreak
16:02:30 *** jw4 has quit IRC
16:03:07 *** jw4 has joined #gnucash
16:03:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v jw4
16:03:20 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
16:06:01 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
16:22:22 *** jervin has quit IRC
16:22:30 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
16:35:09 <TownsendHardware> We've upgraded to v4.4 and the oddest thing has happened. When we pay a vendor, it's always true that multiple bills (invoices) and/or credit memos are dealt with. As a rule, we list the vendor's invoice numbers in the memo when processing the payment. Now, when we look at the vendor report, that memo line is duplicated as many times as the number of invoices paid (splits). Anyone know how to stop this?
17:28:24 <AdrienM> Wm has been 'suspended' several times from -user. (not sure if currently serving one or not) And I don't think he's employed new accounts to circumvent that. A BZ ban might stick. (I never see his replies anymore because I set up a mail filter to auto-trash them it got so bad. I'll occasionally see someone reply to him, but it has been some time)
17:30:04 <AdrienM> TownsendHardware, I'm pretty sure that is an already filed bug. I think there are two of them, one for your case, and another for the transaction itself having the Notes field overwritten with the first Memo.
17:30:30 <jralls> He's actually on moderation, meaning that Liz Dodd has to approve his emails before they go to the list. But you're right, if he's tried to circumvent it he either was on his best behavior or he failed.
17:31:13 <TownsendHardware> We appreciate knowing. Thanks!
17:32:15 <AdrienM> You can leave the Memo blank when entering the payment, and then edit the Memos (not from the AP account, the payment account) and put the invoice #s there. Also the current version of the Vendor (and Customer) Report has a Display option to show Transaction Links (simple or detailed) which will indicate which invoices were paid with which payment and vice versa.
17:33:04 <AdrienM> jralls, thanks for the clarification.
17:40:34 <CDB-PHONE> AdrienM: his most recent infraction is about 17 replies in https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797796 which is a long discussion on the structural issue of currency that I've been having on IRC here with the various players
17:40:51 <CDB-PHONE> both jr and Chris that is
17:41:14 <CDB-PHONE> I guess he didn't like me at first glance and felt the need to totally discredit me!
17:42:07 <CDB-PHONE> I'm curious if he has any professional licences, like a CPA or CFA equivalent in the UK
17:42:25 <CDB-PHONE> or if it's all in his own mind
17:43:31 <jralls> ¯AFAICT it's all in his own mind. He's like a 14 year old: He thinks he knows everything while knowing next to nothing.
17:43:37 <AdrienM> Yeah, I read that bug yesterday. Best I can offer is to try to ignore him. The other participating know better, and I've been semi-following that discussion here on IRC, so I already knew whatever he was spouting was nonsense. And on top of it, I'm already familiar with his ranting to ignore him myself.
17:46:37 *** David has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** AdrienM has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** KaiForce has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** flips has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** TownsendHardware has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** warlord has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** gnomey has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** phebus has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** rIMpossible has quit IRC
17:46:37 *** jchonig has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** g5pw has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** yyoshino has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** Derperperd has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** chris has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** crossan007_ has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** CDB-PHONE has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** CDB-Man has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** finster has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** lmat has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** psmst has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** Trel has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** ekleog has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** prg has quit IRC
17:46:38 *** jethrogb has quit IRC
17:46:39 *** lagertonne has quit IRC
17:46:39 *** Cork has quit IRC
17:46:39 *** reactormonk has quit IRC
17:47:58 *** David has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** AdrienM has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** chris has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** crossan007_ has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** KaiForce has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** CDB-PHONE has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** CDB-Man has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** finster has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** flips has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** TownsendHardware has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** gnomey has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** phebus has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** lmat has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** psmst has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** Trel has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** rIMpossible has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** Derperperd has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** yyoshino has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** g5pw has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** jchonig has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** ekleog has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** prg has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** jethrogb has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** lagertonne has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** Cork has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** reactormonk has joined #gnucash
17:47:58 *** irc.eagle.y.se sets mode: +vvvvvqovvv AdrienM CDB-PHONE CDB-Man finster flips warlord warlord phebus rIMpossible g5pw
17:48:16 *** jervin has quit IRC
17:48:22 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
17:48:25 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
17:48:31 <AdrienM> Power outage?
17:48:43 <AdrienM> Nearly everyone dropped at once and re-joined.
17:49:43 *** warlord sets mode: +o gncbot
17:49:46 <warlord> could be.
17:49:50 <warlord> Or just a net split.
17:50:02 <AdrienM> net split? that's a new one on me.
17:50:30 <AdrienM> Interesting.
17:51:14 <CDB-PHONE> net split most likely
17:51:43 <CDB-PHONE> meaning one of the federated servers briefly dropped
17:51:50 <CDB-PHONE> [17:47] (+AdrienM) Just read that, but again, more childish ranting. I'd welcome removing it from the bug convo, but whatever the devs think is best. I've managed to avoid him, not feed him, and otherwise just let him 'roll off' my back. Of course, I'm not personally invested in all of that work and he didn't attack me, so I understand it isn't so easy.
17:52:09 <CDB-PHONE> yeah it's hard when you're the subject of the attack, rather than the observer
17:52:32 *** David has quit IRC
17:52:39 *** David has joined #gnucash
17:55:18 <AdrienM> CDB-PHONE, also be wary of discounting the discernment of others. I'd wager most reasonable people reading that bug are more likely to see the childish behavior and quickly discount all further comments by that poster. He occasionally will make a semi-valid point, and then can't help himself. He's his own enemy there.
17:55:43 *** Aussie_matt has joined #gnucash
17:56:31 <CDB-PHONE> indeed, though I tend to err on the pessimistic view of humanity ;)
17:57:11 <AdrienM> I've found that people employing such abrasiveness tend to think people don't listen to them, or they somehow feel inferior, and don't realize their behavior turns others off, and proves their original fear, like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
17:57:41 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
17:57:56 <AdrienM> Sometimes I get that way too, then I remember to "Don't Worry, Relax and Have a Homebrew!"
18:00:37 <CDB-PHONE> indeed, 💯 agree with the comment on self fulfilling prophecy
18:04:23 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
18:06:34 *** mikey has joined #gnucash
18:06:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v mikey
18:06:34 *** mikey has quit IRC
18:07:07 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
18:07:34 *** mikey has joined #gnucash
18:07:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v mikey
18:23:11 *** truelehr has quit IRC
18:23:16 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
18:29:18 *** ArtGravity has quit IRC
18:31:00 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
18:33:30 *** David has quit IRC
18:33:38 *** David has joined #gnucash
18:39:27 *** ArtGravity has joined #gnucash
18:39:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v ArtGravity
18:43:06 *** ArtGravity has quit IRC
18:54:07 *** truelehr1 has joined #gnucash
18:56:16 *** truelehr has quit IRC
18:56:16 *** truelehr1 is now known as truelehr
19:14:21 *** jcarl43 has quit IRC
19:24:46 *** truelehr has quit IRC
19:24:49 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
19:26:42 *** chris has quit IRC
19:27:48 *** chris has joined #gnucash
19:27:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v chris
19:27:52 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
19:29:34 *** halipaul has joined #gnucash
19:38:49 *** halipaul has quit IRC
19:46:19 <fell> jralls, IP blocking is a bad idea. Every mornig I get a different IP and if I get blocked by code, I restart my router and have anthor IP.
19:47:48 <fell> And I remember someone who's mail was bounced by a recipient, because a year before a spammer had her recent IP.
19:49:46 <jralls> Yeah, I got a mail blocked a month ago because one of my ISP's MTA's had found its way into SpamCop.
19:52:02 <jralls> You're changing IPs are selected from a small pool of addresses that your ISP assigns to your first-hop router. It's pretty easy for warlord to figure out Wm's pool from the webserver logs; he can see if anyone else is getting addresses from the same pool.
19:53:22 <jralls> It's an extreme measure to be sure. We all hope it will be sufficient to just lock his account.
19:55:22 <fell> From the google guess of the location, it is ca. a county here.
19:55:31 *** truelehr1 has joined #gnucash
19:56:53 <jralls> Of which location? Wm's?
19:57:49 *** truelehr has quit IRC
19:57:49 *** truelehr1 is now known as truelehr
20:12:14 <fell> no, here.
20:23:13 <warlord> Okay, so it's probably 146.199.253.27
20:23:55 <warlord> That has two POSTs to the bug at the timestamps of Wm's comments.
20:24:49 <warlord> But there are also POSTs by an Australian ;)
20:25:22 <chris> who's the down under one?
20:26:45 <warlord> 203.63.194.90
20:27:03 <warlord> Not sure what happened at those timestamps. Could just be accessing the bug.
20:27:49 *** truelehr has quit IRC
20:29:18 *** guak has quit IRC
20:29:20 <chris> O_o
20:34:35 <chris> CDB: more breathing space in your bug.
20:38:49 *** Taiga003 has joined #gnucash
20:46:00 <CDB-PHONE> neat, it can even mark the message as spam or abuse (or both)
20:53:05 *** dtux has joined #gnucash
21:05:08 *** CDB-PHONE has quit IRC
22:56:28 *** dtux has quit IRC
22:56:47 *** storyjesse has joined #gnucash
23:12:17 *** CDB-PHONE has joined #gnucash
23:12:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v CDB-PHONE
23:15:18 <CDB-PHONE> Chris: it's also technically jralls' bug since he filed it :)
23:22:47 <jralls> > Tue-16:27 chris has joined (chris@203.63.194.90) :::::> Tue-17:25 chris: who's the down under one? ::::: > Tue-17:26 warlord: 203.63.194.90 ::::: What a coincidence! ;->
23:28:44 *** mikey has quit IRC
23:47:20 *** o01eg has quit IRC
23:49:15 *** o01eg has joined #gnucash