2021-02-05 GnuCash IRC logs

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01:45:43 <AndroUser2> Cdb-work jralls I wonder if the book would be upgradeable via features from current/use-trading-accounts to ifrs-compliant. The rule would be: it's a one way optional change.
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01:47:52 <chris-phone0> But entirely optional, and would delete trading accounts. After 1-2 generations, when bugs are shaken out, then consider enforce it.
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01:53:38 <fell> jralls, shouldn't we add ' -c --statistics' to msgfmt in po/CMakeLists.txt and/or add '${GETTEXT_MSGFMT_EXECUTABLE} -c --check-accelerators="_"' to make check?
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02:58:50 <gjanssens> .
02:58:50 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 11 hours ago: <codesmythe2> What's the state of CMake in gnucash-docs? Is CMakeNotes.txt in the accurate? It says what is left is special rules for Italian and Windows specific CHM stuff.
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04:47:04 <chris> .
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11:38:14 <AdrienM> I just noticed trying to do a targeted site search on lists.gnucash.org that the majority of hits are for docs rather than list threads. I don't recall this happening before. Is the doc tree not at the main domain? Was a backup stored on the lists subdomain and not removed?
11:38:37 <AdrienM> It could just be a Search Engine issue, but it does make it harder to find relevant list threads now.
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11:46:42 <AdrienM> After trying a few engines, Google, sadly, is the only one that seems to report results of actual threads. (though not as many as it used to) The rest all have lists.gnucash.org/docs hits ranked higher.
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11:57:40 <warlord> lists, code, svn, etc are all the same host. The real question would be, why would something *link* to lists.gnucash.org/docs? But going to lists.gnucash.org/ gets you to the same "home page" as the other names.
12:07:08 <AdrienM> That's what had me stumped. Does /docs/ live on lists? That's how it appears in the results. (I guess subdomains can be pointed wherever, I'm just used to keeping them well separated)
12:09:49 <fell> warord, no, ists.gnucash.org/docs are the nightlies.
12:10:11 <AdrienM> Aha!
12:10:41 <fell> and www.gnucash.org/dccs.phtml lists the released versions
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12:13:12 <AdrienM> Hmm, we need a list-specific search means. That is difficult. I know. I recall we're on an old version of Mailman. Might that have been improved?
12:13:50 <fell> ISTR only google is allow to crawl (on wich servers?)
12:14:43 <AdrienM> And I understood the others were just running Google searches for you and feeding their own custom results.
12:15:14 <fell> I recently removed namazu from www as is was unsupported and disabled a decade.
12:15:17 <AdrienM> (Bing is its own crawler, and it behaved the same as the others)
12:16:25 <AdrienM> Out of curiosity, is lists the best place for nightly docs?
12:16:38 <fell> The only
12:16:57 <fell> code is the build server
12:17:24 <AdrienM> What about gnucash.org/docs/nightly or the reverse?
12:17:52 <AdrienM> Oh, wait, that's a separate server?
12:18:13 <AdrienM> I might be getting the picture now.
12:18:28 <fell> Linas runs www and warlord code/lists…
12:20:28 <AdrienM> Got it.
12:21:46 <fell> The 3. section in https://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml are [frames with] links to code
12:25:13 <AdrienM> Ah. The picture is getting clearer.
12:25:32 <AdrienM> Is this why the built-in search for lists doesn't work right?
12:26:36 <AdrienM> And why the docs on www don't show you the full URL, because they are in a frame pulled from code?
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12:31:19 <fell> 1: warlord knows the details; 2: yes.
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12:33:09 <AdrienM> Interesting, thanks for the education.
12:34:57 <warlord> AdrienM, the built-in search used to be namazu. That became unsupported about, oh, 7-10 years ago ... so support was dropped.
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12:37:41 <AdrienM> Got it. Has Mailman not fixed that by now? (I see we're still on 2.1.29 while there is a 2.1.34 out, and a 3.3.3 current) I get you wouldn't want to upgrade if not necessary, or to avoid breakage, but search is something that comes up repeatedly on -user.
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12:59:22 <AdrienM> Don't know if this is of any use, but the notes for mailman v2.1.16 state there is a bash script 'sitemap' which will generate a map of the archive for submission to public search engines.
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14:11:42 <jralls> fell, re checking translations in make check, would that really be useful? make check is aimed at unit tests for program code. If you're looking for CI of translation PRs how about just adding a CI check that does that separately?
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14:48:23 <jralls> CDB-Man/CDB-PHONE/CDB-Work iirc your version 17 your plan is to alter each transaction so that the txn currency is "home" and change the capgain splits to accommodate both the FX and stock price changes.
14:48:34 <jralls> s/iirc/iiuc/
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14:49:59 <warlord> AdrienM, has mailman not fixed what? Namazu isn't a mailman thing -- it's its own project.
14:51:24 <AdrienM> Maybe I'm misunderstanding. There is a Archive Search feature in Mailman. I was understanding that you were telling me this was facilitated by Namazu which is no longer supported/dead project. Perhaps I misunderstood.
14:53:24 <warlord> If you mean the "Archive Search" function in the GnuCash mailman archives, that was a local modification done to "integrate" namazu into mailman. It's not a mailman thing. And when namazu went away, we stopped being able to generate those indices.
14:53:43 <warlord> .. but didn't go through and regenerate all the HTML pages to remove the search link
14:54:59 <AdrienM> Okay, I understand now. I thought it was part of Mailman, sorry for the noise.
14:55:35 <warlord> Nope, it was something we did to allow searching within mailman archives.
14:55:58 <warlord> Apparently MM3 has a full web interface + search capability, but migrating from MM2 to MM3 is apparently a pretty large chore.
14:58:15 <fell> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20make%20the%20archives%20searchable shows many kinds
15:01:31 <AdrienM> Understood. I figured it wouldn't be a simple step or it would have been done already.
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15:02:14 <warlord> Also, apparently, MM3 does not have a good "DMARC breaks the list" solution..
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15:05:50 <CDB-Work> jralls: yes that would be an accurate statement, but the algorithm to determine the approprite FX + price cap gain is not simple
15:06:04 <CDB-Work> also, put another way, the current system simply *never* contemplated FX gains
15:06:19 <CDB-Work> since everything was done in foreign currency, the FX gains are never realized out of the trading accounts
15:07:53 <jralls> Roger that. It's not clear to me that the current trading account implementation even works in a 3-commodity situation: The absence of CAD trading splits means there's no place for the FX gain to show up.
15:09:30 <jralls> There's another wrinkle: Unless the user used the lot scrubber to identify which lots participated in a cap gain there's no way for an automatic process to figure out what the FX G/L is.
15:10:19 <CDB-Work> well thats what the cost basis report is for
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15:10:28 <CDB-Work> to help you determine cap gain under the average cost method
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15:10:51 <CDB-Work> The absence of CAD trading splits means there's no place for the FX gain to show up. <-- 100%, this is an "oversight"(?) of the current system
15:11:09 <CDB-Work> there is no venue, prompt, or reason to lead a user to think to realize upon fx when selling a stock
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15:11:29 <CDB-Work> using me as an example, since the involved accounts are GME USD and cash USD, there's no prompt to realize the CAD FX
15:11:52 <CDB-Work> granted, in my case, I use a massive excel spreadsheet to track everything cost basis in CAD, as I need to reconcile to my bank's tax slips every year
15:11:58 <CDB-Work> so I've been doing it... at least on my tax return
15:12:08 <CDB-Work> but even I havent done it within gnucash, realizing on the FX that is
15:12:09 <jralls> There's no prompt to realize the GME loss in USD either. The user has to know about that.
15:12:37 <CDB-Work> the ACB report will serve as a replacement to my excel tool if i can ever find the time to finish building the truth table for chris to use
15:12:55 <CDB-Work> for average cost method anyways. lots are a whole other kettle of fish
15:13:07 <CDB-Work> along with LIFO as per german rules that fell mentioned a while back... yeah
15:13:59 <CDB-Work> 15:12:09 @jrallsThere's no prompt to realize the GME loss in USD either. The user has to know about that. <-- indeed, though that one is slightly(?) easier, since at least there's no FX impact if you do it purely in the currency of the stock. but agreed, that one is also often overlooked
15:14:15 <CDB-Work> and that's one of the things that the chris stock transaction assistant tool was meant to help with
15:14:32 <CDB-Work> the input tool having these fields open for input, will prompt the user to think about what to write in
15:14:44 <CDB-Work> granted, coming up with the right numbers is not easy, but at least theyve thought about it!
15:15:22 <fell> Highest In - First Out
15:15:30 <CDB-Work> TL;DR: properly reporting the gain on stocks takea a level of dicipline and GL hygiene. properly also including the FX portion in the gain/loss will take even more discipline/hygiene
15:15:40 <jralls> In most cases nowadays it *is* easy to come up with the right number for that, it's on the sell confirmation ticket from the broker.
15:15:51 <CDB-Work> in original currency
15:15:56 <jralls> As least it is from Charles Schwab.
15:16:05 <CDB-Work> RBC for me will tell me the cost basis in USD terms for my USD sales
15:16:19 <CDB-Work> i still need to convert to CAD using the day rate on date of sale manually
15:16:30 <CDB-Work> all this to say, a script cant just go in and do it for you
15:16:34 <jralls> You'd think that RBC, being a Canadian bank, would also tell you the FX impact.
15:17:03 <CDB-Work> nope, they only give you with certainty what has certinly happened, and that's a USD transaction
15:17:59 <jralls> "a script cant just go in and do it for you" That's where I was going with this, starting yesterday afternoon. I don't think it's feasible to convert existing transactions.
15:18:25 <CDB-Work> as to the example in the uploadeed file, while the "proper" answer is CR $80 CAD for the loss, the script coudl take the simple approach and directly convert it to $30
15:18:37 <CDB-Work> and leave it up to the user to determine if they want to hand review and properly account for FX
15:18:53 <CDB-Work> so the conversion can still be done,... as it was never correct in the first place
15:19:17 <CDB-Work> such a script would move it from one degree of incorrectness... to another degree that's slightly less (?) incorrect
15:20:22 <CDB-Work> the transactions stil balance, so the script can still do its thing
15:20:29 <jralls> ISTM a different approach: Rather than try to adjust the transactions one at a time, calculate a single adjusting transaction that gets the book in balance in the home currency and all transactions going forward use the home currency for the transaction currency.
15:20:35 <CDB-Work> just that there is no net gain in terms of being able to capture the FX gain/loss
15:21:20 <CDB-Work> hmm, that is also possible, and i would caveat that with perhaps calc 1 such transaction per calendar year
15:21:33 <CDB-Work> so that the gain/loss can be attributed to per period
15:21:39 <CDB-Work> s/calendar/fiscal
15:22:07 <jralls> Too hard. FX and stock positions can cross year boundaries.
15:22:14 <CDB-Work> fair enough
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15:22:22 <CDB-Work> but again, I dont think the books will actually be unbalanced
15:23:03 <CDB-Work> cell O31, if that's done using $20 USD * 1.50 = $30 USD, just like the other splits, it still all balances
15:24:06 <CDB-Work> no exceptional logic needed
15:24:24 <jralls> The *transaction* balances. The *book* doesn't because there's an unaccounted for loss in CAD terms.
15:24:33 <CDB-Work> hmm, I think i see what you mean
15:24:40 <CDB-Work> O26, GME is CR $200
15:24:48 <CDB-Work> N36, GME is DR $150 CAD
15:24:56 <CDB-Work> so there's a remaining CR $50 CAD in GME trading
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15:27:32 <CDB-Work> and incidentally, that $50 is exactly the delta (though it is not 100% FX... the FX is $40 and i really dont have an easy answer to discern why they dont match)
15:27:50 <jralls> That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the Balance Sheet Assets decreased $50 but that's not reflected in Liabilities + Equity.
15:29:13 <CDB-Work> did it though? hmm the ending in GME stock account is $50 CR, and the ending cash is $80 CR... hmm
15:29:18 <CDB-Work> okay yes
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16:40:03 <AdrienM> warlord, from MM3 News page, looks like several DMARC bugs have been addressed, but of course, I'm not certain if it still isn't a mess.
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18:42:00 <fell> AdrienM, the bugfixes need to arrive at a fedora release before warlord can use it.
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18:42:50 <AdrienM> copy that.
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18:49:03 <chris> jralls: http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2021-02-05.log#174803 ...soon...
18:50:37 <jralls> chris, OK.
18:51:38 <chris> they talk about replacing gmp with mini-gmp as well-- any idea why?
18:51:41 <chris> for windows
18:53:40 <jralls> Dunno. gmp is big and slow and does a lot of stuff that they don't need? Are they working on MinGW classic or MinGW-w64?
18:53:56 <chris> no idea...
18:54:08 <chris> https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=599948.0 -- GMP uses BCD !?!
18:59:30 <chris> http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guile/2021-02-06.log#005434
19:00:03 <jralls> GMP *offers* BCD.
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19:07:13 <chris> they talk about single-threaded guile... this should be a plus...
19:08:49 <jralls> No, it's a minus. Guile won't build multi-threaded on either flavor of MinGW. That's probably why they have to leave out JIT too.
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