2021-02-02 GnuCash IRC logs
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07:18:56 <greatest_fan_of_gnu> warlord and jrails, thanks for chatting with me yesterday about what to do with USAA changing their online access. gnucash is so awesome! I have donated before and I will again.
07:43:37 <warlord> Thanks for your support.
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08:57:27 <chris> CDB-Man: the multicolumn pricedb issue is real and tricky...
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14:36:19 <apitronix> Hi ! I have a question related to the wiki translation.
14:36:56 <apitronix> Why not using "wikidata" to handle the translation between pages ?
14:37:06 <apitronix> On the wiki.
14:38:59 <apitronix> For those who don't know whatit is, it's the plugin used on wikipedia. It Provide a languages menu on the left bar.
14:40:11 <apitronix> That's only my opinion, it's look prettier than our language handling.
14:40:50 <apitronix> And I think it's easier to maintain too.
14:45:49 <jralls> apitronix, have you looked at the non-English pages? Spanish and Portuguese have a single page in those languages. Everything they link to is English. The supposed French page has only a couple of headings in French, the rest is English. Only German has a significant number of pages actually in German.
14:46:09 <jralls> apitronix, so what would the wikidata plugin do for us?
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14:55:00 <apitronix> jralls Yes, I saw non-English pages. Using this plugin would encourage people to provide a translation to the pages. I know that very few are currently translated (I have started to take care of the French page you're talking about). The idea behind this is to make it easier to create translations.
14:57:13 <apitronix> And by the way increase the usage by non english-speaking people of the wiki (like old people who don't read english).
15:00:02 <apitronix> And I saw that the GnuCash user doc is not translated to, by the way. How could we do that ?
15:00:18 <apitronix> (https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help)
15:01:10 <jralls> If you're talking about https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikidata_Toolkit it looks rather non-trivial to install and administer.
15:02:43 <jralls> We'd love a French translation of the docs! There's a bit of a technical hurdle unless you're already familiar with Docbook and the git version control system.
15:04:54 <apitronix> jralls Yes, I talk about this plugin. What a shame! :/
15:05:33 <jralls> So from my (developer) view it's easy, just clone the repo, make a branch, copy guide/C to guide/fr, and start translating. If that sounds like absolute gibberish then there will be a fair amount of learning and coaching for you.
15:05:36 <apitronix> If I have time, I will try to provide a piece of french documentation.
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15:06:29 <apitronix> jralls I'm a developer too. I will work on conventions before editing it.
15:09:00 <jralls> Before you dive in to translating the Guide give a thought to the size of it. Somebody tried to start a Russian translation a few years ago, got partway through the first chapter, and gave up. We never heard why but think they realized that it would be several year's work and felt overwhelmed.
15:09:49 <apitronix> It's a pity we can't edit the translations of the user documentation from the site. The use of "git" may put off contributors.
15:11:25 <apitronix> Maybe. What if I don't finish the translate? The translation will be added anyway?
15:11:31 <jralls> Nope.
15:12:37 <jralls> Or maybe depends on how far you get. Half of the overview chapter isn't very useful. All of the first section is starting to be worthwhile.
15:14:07 <apitronix> Ok, thanks ! :)
15:14:27 <jralls> Note that github has the ability to edit files and at least one translator worked that way before we set up Weblate in December. But it's still pretty techy and the fact that you have to deal with XML doesn't help at all.
15:16:47 <jralls> gjanssens has poked at making the docs translatable via gettext but I have doubts about how well that will work in practice. Often one needs to change the order of paragraphs in order to get a translation that makes sense in a different language.
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15:20:10 <jralls> I'd think from my little knowledge of French that a straight sentence-by-sentence translation via gettext would probably work OK; ditto for the other Romance languages. Mechtilde's done a lot of the German documentation translation and she's said that she needs whole sections to work on as a unit. Then there's Asian languages. We have a 12 year old Japanese translation and haven't been able to get anyone to work on it sin
15:20:10 <jralls> ce.
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15:37:47 <fell> apitronix, about the plugin, we have to talk with warlord to set it up, and perhaps linas for the language subdomains.
15:40:47 <fell> For the terminology, I would start with https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/gnucash/glossary/fr/
15:44:08 <fell> BTW, I am pretty sure, the glossary can still can be improved.
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15:58:28 <jralls> Hmm, I wonder if https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Translate is really what Wikipedia uses for translation. Wikibase and Wikidata seem to be aimed at other uses.
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16:06:30 <fell> Long time ago I discussed wiki translation with warlord …
16:12:31 <fell> The overview: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Language_tools
16:12:48 <jralls> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Translate_us it looks like Wikipedia doesn't use any of them.
16:15:41 <fell> wikiPEDIA pages are not translated, but can be linked. In contrast wikiMEDIA uses one, translating image ttle etc.
16:17:02 <fell> German wp pages have usually more details, while the english are more recent.
16:17:29 <jralls> Right. But apitronix said WikiPEDIA. I think he's mistaken both about WikiData and Wikipedia using any translation tools.
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16:27:16 <jralls> fell, the Translate extension seems to be small-string based like gettext and weblate. I suspect that it's not any more suitable for wiki pages than gettext is for chapter books.
16:30:47 <jralls> However they're working on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation. That looks interesting and might be bent in a way to help with our docs too.
16:30:58 <fell> For warlord it would probaly easier to maintain the https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Language_Extension_Bundle
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16:40:58 <fell> In In https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Improve_Localization_Process#Weblate I seen 2 major toolkits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translate_Toolkit and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Translate
16:42:18 <fell> weblate uses Translate Toolkit
16:46:34 <jralls> OK. So?
16:56:38 <fell> For the docs in between I consider reStructuredText as source language, for which exist many tools and services.
16:58:04 <fell> That was just my observation about "important" engines.
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17:02:08 <jralls> But important in the context of a website for translating gettext msgids, not wiki pages or chapter books.
17:04:59 <jralls> The Linux Kernel has switched to rst. They use pandoc to convert from Docbook and I think Sphinx for processing the rst directly, and it looks to me like that would work for us too.
17:07:34 <fell> A good sketch!
17:07:55 <jralls> Sketch?
17:08:56 <fell> outline, plan
17:11:31 <jralls> Ah.
17:12:17 <jralls> I
17:13:18 <jralls> I'd offer to do a PR but I'm stretched way to thin to be able to promise it any time soon. codesmy__ might be willing...
17:14:41 <jralls> @tell gjanssens do you have any objections to following the Linux Kernel down the docbook->sphinx path (https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/doc-guide/docbook.rst)?
17:14:41 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
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18:02:49 <TownsendHardware> Bug Report (or enhancement request, it depends on your point of view). We discovered that if we enter an invoice on the 1st of the month with a Proxima date of the 25th, the software posts the invoice as due on the 25th of the **next** month, not the 25th of the current month. That's caused us a fair amount of pain.
19:11:22 <warlord> Hmm. Interesting. Please file a bugzilla report
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19:53:35 <fell> jralls, I got
19:53:36 <fell> Run cd $HOME
19:53:38 <fell> tar: Error opening archive: Unrecognized archive format
19:54:03 <fell> in CI tests
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20:17:16 <fell> recent error on win32/maint: Run Build Command(s):C:/gcdev64/msys2/mingw32/bin/ninja.exe cmTC_5fda7 && ninja: error: loading 'build.ninja': The system cannot find the file specified.
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