2021-01-25 GnuCash IRC logs
00:00:18 *** truelehr has quit IRC
00:17:11 *** angel has joined #gnucash
00:32:37 *** o01eg has joined #gnucash
00:48:54 *** angel has quit IRC
01:06:17 *** fell has quit IRC
01:07:08 *** fell has joined #gnucash
01:07:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
01:10:03 *** bertbob has quit IRC
01:11:27 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
01:12:36 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
01:24:58 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
01:24:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
01:25:54 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
01:25:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v frakturfreak
01:37:41 *** bhardwajs has joined #gnucash
01:39:42 *** bhardwajs has quit IRC
01:42:40 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
01:55:48 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
02:07:00 *** guiu has quit IRC
02:09:12 *** jervin has quit IRC
02:11:04 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
02:27:06 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
02:27:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o gjanssens
02:34:29 *** Aussie_matt has joined #gnucash
02:37:00 *** jcarl43 has quit IRC
03:58:35 *** roxart has joined #gnucash
04:00:38 <roxart> Hello - I have a strange problem again: there is a difference in the net gain of the balance sheet 31.12.2020 and the respective income statement for the 2020 period. this makes no sense to me anyone has an idea what the problem could be? (german speaking is fine too)
04:01:14 <roxart> last year had similar problems - sorted out some forex account things - using the same file now and can't figure out why there is a deviation :(
04:07:41 <roxart> If i remember right fell was helping but I'm not sure :)
04:12:11 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
04:14:32 <fell> Hast du denn in beiden Berichten die gleichen Einstellunß0vhf8754321+,59875gen
04:16:10 <fell> 5585855285.,lq<a1<<Q1<<1mnb098765<a<q1a<LP,585,
04:16:35 <roxart> Hi fell
04:17:00 <roxart> hm dieser IRC client zeigt irgendwie komische sachen an
04:17:09 <roxart> Hast du denn in beiden Berichten die gleichen Einstellunß0vhf8754321+,59875gen
04:17:14 <roxart> 5585855285.,lq<a1<<Q1<<1mnb098765<a<q1a<LP,585,
04:17:21 <fell> Sorry,war der Staubpinsel.:)
04:17:24 <roxart> keine ahnung was du beim zweiten Satz geschrieben hast
04:17:30 <roxart> ahso
04:17:32 <roxart> lol
04:17:41 <roxart> was meinst du mit gleiche Einstellungen
04:17:55 <roxart> währung Gewichteter Durchschnitt falls du das meinst
04:17:58 <fell> z.B.Preisquelle
04:18:14 <roxart> gewichteter Durchschnitt
04:19:15 <fell> Zeitraum, bzw. Schlußtag sind identisch?
04:20:12 <roxart> 2.1.20 bis 31.12.20 und bilanz 31.12.20
04:20:55 <roxart> weil 1.1. gewinnbuchung usw
04:21:16 <fell> ja, der alte trick
04:21:35 <roxart> (also wollte jetzt das selbe file von letztem jahr weiterverwenden hatten ja letztes mal dann alles neu gemacht ka ob du dich noch erinnerst)
04:23:44 <fell> Nö, aber wenn du den Zeitraum noch weißt,gck doch mal in https://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2021/01/22.html (mit angepaßtem Datum)
04:24:51 <roxart> uff :D
04:24:54 <fell> Vielleicht solltest Du es dann mal ins Wiki schreiben. ;-)
04:25:55 <roxart> kann man da auch mehrere tage aufs mal anschauen?
04:26:18 <roxart> du hast jetzt also auch keine idee was das sein könnte?
04:26:40 <roxart> ich glaube leider nicht dass es das selbe problem ist - damals war ja das problem mit dem euro konto (CHF base)
04:26:47 <roxart> da waren 1:1 beziehungen drinn
04:26:52 <roxart> ist jetzt aber nicht so.... :/
04:30:36 <fell> Mach doch mal ein in den verdchtigen Konten Aktionen->Überprüfen->Alle Buchungssätze.
04:31:26 <fell> Investment/Fremdwähriungskonten
04:32:24 <roxart> https://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2020/08/26.html
04:32:43 <roxart> ok schaue ich mal an - also du meinst in den 2 bank konten CHF EUR?
04:34:21 <roxart> da und 12. 13. 8. ist das von letztem jahr
04:39:23 <roxart> also überprüfen auf dem CHF konto kommt balken läuft durch in 2 Sekunden und passiert nix - beim EUR konto ist der Befehl ausgegraut?
04:39:49 <fell> Auufwendungen & Erlöse immer gleich in Landeswährung?
04:41:30 <roxart> du meinst ob die Bilanz aufgeht aktiva passiva?
04:43:20 <fell> A
04:43:41 <roxart> jap bilanz ist ausgeglichen
04:47:54 <roxart> was ich noch gemerkt habe jetzt - wenn ich bei der ergebnisrechnung ALLE konten anwähle kommt der devisenhandel ausgewiesen mit -1664
04:48:08 <roxart> bei der bilanz kommt Gewinne Devisenhandel CHF 0.00
04:48:32 <roxart> ergebnis: Netto-Ertrag für Buchungsperiode CHF +6'776.59
04:48:43 <roxart> bilanz Erwirtschafteter Gewinn CHF +10'009.20
04:49:42 <roxart> ich weiss noch dass ich den devisenhandel letztes jahr in der erfolgsrechnung ausgeblendet hatte und es dann aufging und jetzt eigentlich die selben einstellungen stehen gelassen hatte
04:49:55 <roxart> (voreinstellung des reports)
04:50:14 <roxart> aber da ist dann ertrag 8441
04:52:06 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
04:55:25 <fell> Also,im Moment habe ich keine Idee und auch nicht die Ruhe dazu. Ich muß noch was fertig bekommen. Wenn du nicht dahinter kommst, melde dich doch gegen Abend nochmal.
04:58:57 <roxart> ja muss auch noch arbeiten fell - danke werde am Nachmittag / gegen Abend nochmal schauen - kann dir dann sonst auch das File mal zeigen wenn das hilft :)
05:17:36 *** truelehr has quit IRC
06:38:45 *** halipaul has joined #gnucash
06:47:21 *** field^Mop has joined #gnucash
06:49:31 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
06:50:03 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
07:18:03 *** chris has joined #gnucash
07:18:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v chris
07:18:04 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
07:19:34 <chris> CDB-Man_ we know :)
07:22:40 *** FH_thecat has joined #gnucash
07:44:33 <Mechtilde> chris hello
07:44:41 <Mechtilde> do you get my messages?
08:10:54 <warlord> .
08:11:15 <chris> Mechtilde: which one
08:11:45 <Mechtilde> about the documentation of the reports
08:12:08 <chris> They are underdocumented yes
08:13:10 <Mechtilde> about group Budget and group Buisness
08:13:20 <Mechtilde> Business
08:13:36 <chris> yes they could be better
08:14:05 <Mechtilde> I'm traslating to German
08:15:11 <chris> what's the issue
08:40:02 <Mechtilde> missing information about the named reports
08:41:57 <chris> As I said above, they are underdocumented
08:43:19 <Mechtilde> Is it possible to add some more documentation?
08:44:05 <chris> Go ahead, I have little time to devote to this
08:56:11 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
08:57:00 <chris> If you write the documentation I'm more than happy to review and amend any inaccuracies
09:10:26 *** bzbarsky has joined #gnucash
09:10:27 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
09:12:47 <bzbarsky> Hello, I am considering creating a report sort of like the "Security Piechart" report but that bins "similar" securities. For example, I own several different mutual funds that are all S&P 500 indices and for my purposes I'd like that to be one pie slice in the report.
09:12:47 <bzbarsky> Is there a way to associate the "category" I want to bin by with securities? Or with accounts, other than by abusing an existing field to store it (I was looking at the account description as a possible option there)?
09:13:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bzbarsky
09:15:22 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
09:17:11 <warlord> bzbarsky, nope, there isn't some field for merging in that way.
09:17:23 <warlord> you'll have to abuse an existing field, or somehow create some additional logic.
09:18:49 <bzbarsky> OK, that's what it looked like to me; was hoping I was missing something. I can certainly abuse account description. Just means I need to copy/paste a bunch of the existing pie-chart logic instead of being able to modify the built-in report in a way that's upstreamable, since upstreaming what I'm going to end up with doesn't seem reasonable.
09:18:51 <bzbarsky> Alright, thanks!
09:24:56 *** guak has joined #gnucash
09:41:03 <warlord> You could abuse the security namespace
09:41:07 <warlord> Or even the account hierarchy.
09:41:13 <warlord> There are many things you could "abuse"
09:44:11 <Mechtilde> chris I can't do it in english
09:45:25 <Mechtilde> I try to understand your English documentation
09:50:36 <chris> as fell said not everything has to be documented 100% thoroughly. there's lots of redundancy.
10:06:03 *** guiu has joined #gnucash
10:08:33 *** dklann has quit IRC
10:15:19 *** David has joined #gnucash
10:17:11 <fell> Perhaps we should drop all not well documented reports?
10:19:44 *** twanny has joined #gnucash
10:21:21 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
10:25:53 *** Aussie_matt has quit IRC
10:29:04 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
10:37:14 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
10:38:17 *** chris has quit IRC
10:39:19 *** chris has joined #gnucash
10:39:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v chris
10:39:19 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
10:40:56 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
10:48:37 <warlord> fell, I suspect that might lead to a lot of dropped reports ;)
10:50:34 <fell> Followed by a big storm, but perhaps with explanation of the purpose of them.
10:53:03 <lmat> fell: A fell approach indeed ;-)
10:57:46 <chris> I suspect fell means drop *documentation* of under-documented reports. Not the scm files.
11:23:20 *** jcarl43 has joined #gnucash
11:23:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v jcarl43
11:23:46 *** codesmythe has joined #gnucash
11:23:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v codesmythe
11:35:09 *** ArtGravity has joined #gnucash
11:35:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v ArtGravity
11:37:39 *** David has quit IRC
11:37:45 *** David has joined #gnucash
11:41:33 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
11:42:05 *** angel has joined #gnucash
12:05:56 *** angel has quit IRC
12:07:23 <roxart> hi fell und noch zur Fehlersuche motiviert? :D
12:12:43 <roxart> ich habe noch überprüft alle kontoüberträge von CHF nach EUR benutzen automatisch die devisenhandelskonten - wie auch im letzten jahr
12:12:50 <roxart> sehe also keinen unterschied dazu :/
12:15:45 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
12:18:59 <roxart> es leuchtet mir einfach gar nicht ein wie es einen unterschied beim ertrag bei bilanz und er geben kann sollte ja die gleiche berechnungsbasis haben....?
12:20:07 *** linas has quit IRC
12:22:28 *** bertbob has quit IRC
12:22:36 *** linas has joined #gnucash
12:22:53 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
12:23:23 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
12:26:15 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
12:29:20 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
12:29:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
12:35:10 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
13:05:12 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
13:16:01 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
13:19:03 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
13:20:37 *** twanny has left #gnucash
13:25:43 <fell> roxart. versuch das Problem einzugrenzen: welches Halbjahr,Quartal,Monat
13:25:48 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
13:29:39 <fell> No, chris, free after Bob Maley: No doc, no scm …
13:39:49 <Mechtilde> .
13:40:28 *** adam has joined #gnucash
13:44:57 <adam> gnucash question, I am trying to update a budget amount programatically. I have tried several ways, piecash API, or direct inserts into the buget_amount table. It never updates in gnucash even though I can see the change in mysql. What am I missing?
13:48:15 <lmat> adam: Are you closing gnucash, making the update, then re-opening gnucash?
13:48:25 <roxart> fell also es muss mit dem fremdwährungskonto zu tun haben
13:48:29 <roxart> gut eingrenzen kann ich nicht
13:48:47 <roxart> wenn ich ER bis 12.01. nur mache und bilanz auch per dann stimmt es überein
13:48:56 <roxart> erste transaktion auf EUR konto ist am 13.1.
13:50:16 <roxart> aber wie gesagt ich habe nichts umgestellt, verstehe nicht was der jetzt wieder anders als letztes jahr rechnet :/
13:50:44 <adam> yes
13:51:06 <adam> I was careful to do that.
13:51:14 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
13:51:23 <adam> When gnucash reopens it as if I never made the edit.
13:51:42 <adam> Can see the edit in mysql.
13:51:54 <adam> not sure where it is storing the data.
13:52:01 <lmat> adam: And you see the edit in the database still? Have you committed the transaction? (disconnect from database, reconnect and query)
13:52:11 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
13:52:35 <warlord> adam, are you editing the database directly or are you using the GnuCash API?
13:53:10 <adam> API
13:53:16 <warlord> GnuCash loads the full database when it starts. It does not see edits in-situ while running.
13:53:35 *** peter-butler[m] has quit IRC
13:53:36 *** cybertani[m] has quit IRC
13:53:38 *** Julianold[m] has quit IRC
13:53:40 *** MatrixTravelerbot[m] has quit IRC
13:53:42 *** luwum[m] has quit IRC
13:53:46 *** ElonSatoshi[m] has quit IRC
13:53:46 *** jojo[m] has quit IRC
13:53:50 *** ErikSchillingAblu[m] has quit IRC
13:53:51 *** katco[m] has quit IRC
13:53:51 *** grepular has quit IRC
13:53:52 *** PeterScholtens[m] has quit IRC
13:53:52 <adam> That is what I thought as well
13:53:53 <warlord> How do you know that GnuCash isn't seeing the changes?
13:54:32 <adam> I am connbecting to mysql from the work bench and querying the table directly.
13:54:44 <warlord> which table?
13:54:54 <warlord> Also, are you sure you're looking at the same database?
13:54:59 <adam> budget_amounts
13:55:25 <adam> Yes I only have one data base. I can also see when I update the table from within gnucash.
13:56:03 <adam> I can clean the budget --> query it --> get a clean table
13:56:15 <warlord> I have never used the budget features, so I can't comment directly on that. Maybe do something simple, first, like updating the description on an account -- just to make sure GnuCash is seeing your edits.
13:56:17 <adam> create the budget within gnucash --> see the entries
13:56:36 <adam> edit the entries in gnucash --> see the change in mysql
13:56:47 <adam> close gnucash
13:56:52 <adam> run the api
13:56:56 <warlord> Also, I didn't realize that the budget APIs were exposed in the Python Bindings.
13:57:02 *** MatrixTravelerbot[m] has joined #gnucash
13:57:22 <adam> check mysql --> the api updated properly
13:57:45 <adam> restart gnucash get the same value as before the update in gnucash, mysql shows the API update.
13:57:51 <adam> really weird.
13:58:14 <adam> I can change the name on the Buget table
13:58:16 <adam> no issues
13:58:32 <adam> We think along the same lines :-)
13:59:43 <adam> Any thoughts?
14:00:01 <warlord> So you change the name and gnucash sees that change, but if you change a value, gnucash does not?
14:00:08 <adam> Yes
14:00:14 <adam> different tables
14:00:23 <warlord> ... but if you change the value from gnucash, the "correct" value gets updated in mysql?
14:00:31 <adam> yes
14:00:32 <warlord> .. in the same place.
14:00:40 <adam> yesd
14:00:54 <adam> it is acting like it is cached.
14:01:26 <warlord> E.g., you have a value in the budget of 10. You quit gnucash and using the API set it to 20. Verify the change from 10 -> 20 in MySQL. Load GnuCash, see it is still 10. Change it to 30. Now you see the value 30 where you used to see 20?
14:01:50 <adam> let me try the last case to 30
14:01:58 <fell> roxard, ist das die einzige transaktion am 13.?
14:02:17 <warlord> I dont know how budget data is stored. But GnuCash cannot cache data if it's not running. ;)
14:02:36 <adam> LOL had the same thoughts
14:03:22 <adam> shows 30 in mysql
14:03:27 <adam> wierd
14:03:32 <warlord> In the same location, using the same query?
14:03:42 <warlord> I am wondering if that '30' shows up anywhere else?
14:03:54 <adam> yes
14:04:05 <adam> that I don't know
14:04:07 <warlord> Maybe: set it to 10 from GnuCash; dump database; set it to 30 from GnuCash; dump database; compare dumps
14:04:14 <adam> yeah
14:04:33 <warlord> That will show you if there are multiple changes... which there could be
14:04:59 <warlord> looking at the source code, I don't see the budget api exported by the bindings. Are you using the GnuCash API or are you using something else?
14:05:12 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
14:05:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
14:05:30 <adam> using piecash
14:06:28 <warlord> Oh. That *could* be part of your problem -- piecash is a 3rd party tool.
14:06:42 <adam> yeah I get the disclaimer :-)
14:07:40 <adam> if it isn't in the bindings -> that is likely it. Bad method.
14:07:49 <warlord> If they didn't copy all the correct business logic, they could be missing something
14:08:12 <adam> yeah their code wasn't too different from a direct edit, where I had the same issue.
14:08:14 <warlord> picash is not written on top of the bindings; it is a re-write, so could be missing stuff.
14:08:42 <adam> Thanks for the help, will have to do the database compare as suggested.
14:09:14 <warlord> if there is only that one change then color me confused. I suspect there are two changes, and picash is only changing one.
14:09:46 <adam> yeah, now that I can rule out caching should be able to locate it.
14:10:20 <adam> it has to be because the direct edit from mysql had the same result.
14:10:32 <adam> thought it was going to be simple ;-P
14:10:39 <warlord> LOL
14:10:44 <warlord> One would think
14:10:56 <adam> Thinking always gets me into trouble.
14:11:10 <adam> Thanks again for the help.
14:11:23 *** twanny has joined #gnucash
14:12:02 <twanny> Where can I find a link on how to setup mysql database for GnuCash?
14:12:36 <fell> The mysql docs?
14:13:03 <warlord> you're welcome adam
14:14:34 <twanny> fell: do I need to setup tables in the database?
14:14:50 <warlord> twanny, no -- gnucash will do that. You just need to have permissions.
14:14:51 <jralls> twanny, You must let GnuCash create the database so create a role for it and grant it full access.
14:16:20 <twanny> jralls: I think I should create the gnucash database and then create a user with full access to 'gnucash' only?
14:17:21 <jralls> That may work if you set up the database correctly. Pay particular attention to locale and charset; the latter must be UTF-8.
14:17:47 <warlord> Can you create a role for a non-existing database?
14:18:12 <warlord> i.e., does GRANT gnucash.* .. work if "gnucash" does not exists?
14:18:16 <warlord> does not exist
14:20:36 <jralls> warlord, you create a role on the master database. I think it's called template something in mysql.
14:21:33 <jralls> Nope, sorry, that's pgsql. MySQL's is mysql.
14:22:55 <warlord> the only way I've ever granted permissions in mysql is via: GRANT all ON gnucash.* to 'user'@'host' IDENTIFIED BY <password>; I suppose that still works if the "gnucash" database (in this example) does not (yet) exist.
14:23:53 <jralls> It doesn't. If you want a role to be able to create databases you say grant all on mysql to ...
14:24:17 *** Julianold[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:17 *** PeterScholtens[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:17 *** ErikSchillingAblu[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:17 *** ElonSatoshi[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:18 *** peter-butler[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:19 *** jojo[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:19 *** luwum[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:20 *** cybertani[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:20 *** grepular has joined #gnucash
14:24:21 *** katco[m] has joined #gnucash
14:24:28 <jralls> Then the user can connect to mysql and create or drop databases.
14:27:07 <warlord> To me, though, I would only want the external user to be able to create or drop the gnucash database
14:28:13 <jralls> twanny, be sure not to create any tables in the database or GnuCash will want to drop it and create a new one.
14:29:21 <jralls> warlord, `gnucash` is only the default name, and there may be multiple gnucash databases.
14:29:54 <warlord> yes, I know.. On the other hand, one might want to grant different users access to the different databases.
14:30:43 <jralls> GnuCash doesn't know how to handle that right now. It only knows how to work with full control over the database.
14:31:04 <roxart> fell ja am 13.1. nur eine transaktion
14:31:18 <roxart> kontoübertrag 20000 CHF zu 18151.87 EUR
14:32:04 <roxart> in der ER bleibt der netto ertrag von wenn ich von 12. auf 13. wechlse gleich
14:32:09 <warlord> jralls, gnucash can certainly allow different mysql username/password pairs for different databases on the same mysql server. E.g mysql://server/gnucash1 and mysql://server/gnucash2 could require different username/password pairs, and gnucash most certainly supports that today.
14:32:24 <roxart> in der bilanz steigt er von 1704 auf 2135
14:33:46 *** jervin has quit IRC
14:35:01 <fell> roxart: Handelskonteneinträge OK?
14:36:22 <fell> Andere Daten in Kurs-Datenbank in zeitlicher Nähe?
14:36:27 <adam> warlord --> the budget_amounts value is also stored in the slots table, looks like the slots table drives the gui action.
14:37:12 <warlord> Interesting. I wonder why it is stored twice?
14:37:37 <roxart> fell funktioniert das: https://imgur.com/a/jHKvY3h
14:37:38 <jralls> warlord, yes, but that's not what I mean. I mean that if it doesn't have privileges to do something it will just log an error and not otherwise notify the user.
14:37:53 <adam> No idea -- maybe to prevent what I'm trying to do ;-)
14:38:25 <warlord> jralls, yes, that is certainly true.
14:38:47 <warlord> adam, lol. probably not the intended reason. Maybe jralls knows why budget entries are stored twice?
14:38:48 <roxart> kursdatenbank screenshot habe ich gerade noch hinzugefügt
14:40:15 <jralls> No idea about budget stuff. AFAIK chris is the only one to have done anything with it since it was merged as a drive-by contribution 10 years ago with very little review.
14:40:40 <adam> I think I just got the stray bullets ;-)
14:40:42 *** FH_thecat has quit IRC
14:41:12 <adam> Thanks for the help
14:43:57 <fell> toxart, hast duin einem anderen Konto noch EUR-ltbestände, die dadurch ihren Wert verändern?
14:46:17 <roxart> fell es gibt dieses euro bankkonto (wo auch 2019er buchungen noch drinn sind)
14:46:36 <roxart> dann gibt es ein erlös konto in eur und ein aufwands konto in eur
14:46:49 <roxart> die auch von 2019 stammen
14:48:11 <adam> The proper value in the budget_amounts table appears to be only for query usage, looks like that table just provides a view. Slots table drives, was able to get an update in Gnucash with a direct replace in the slots.
14:49:23 <fell> Hast du die Guv-Konten imJahresabschluß auf 0 gebracht?
14:53:18 <roxart> kann gut sein, dass ich das nicht korrekt gemacht habe - kannst du mir auf die sprünge helfen?
14:55:14 <fell> Ich glaube, Frakturfreak, kann dir viel besser erklären, warum man Erfolskonten in Fremdwährungen meiden sollte-
14:57:32 <fell> Die solltest du immer zeitnah in CHF umbuchen.
14:58:00 <roxart> also du meinst EUR aufwands konto und EUR erlös konto?
14:58:17 <fell> Und im Jahresabschluß allerspätestens.
14:58:36 <fell> Genau
14:59:04 <roxart> und wieso genau? also ich verstehe nicht ganz wieso das ende 19 dann gestummen hat und dann anfang januar nicht mehr?
14:59:26 <roxart> (und wichtiger - wie "flicke" ich das jetzt) sorry hier bin ich echt überfordert :(
15:02:33 <fell> Dein Finanzamt und andere offizielleStellen, Kreditgeber, … interressiert doch nur dein Ergebnis in CHF-
15:04:16 <fell> Also, Erfolge vor oder im Jahresaabschluß in Landeswährung umbuchen.
15:04:34 <roxart> also ich habe in der ER keine EUR ausgewiesen
15:05:43 *** truelehr has quit IRC
15:05:59 <roxart> ist es möglicherweise einfacher wenn ich meinen screen in discord oder so kurz zeige?
15:07:00 <fell> Dann sollten die entsprechenden Konten auf 0 sein.
15:08:28 <fell> Ich liege eigentlich schon im Bett, bin seit 4 auf..
15:09:32 <roxart> ich denke ich habe den abschluss nicht richtig / vollständig gemacht - wenn du morgen vielleicht mal kurz zeit zum helfen hast wäre das super :)
15:09:47 <roxart> vom Schlaf abhalten möchte ich dich definitiv nicht
15:10:15 <fell> Klar.
15:11:58 <roxart> bist du im Discord oder so erreichbar?
15:45:18 <frakturfreak> roxart: Das Problem besteht auch darin, dass du jeweils ein anderes Ergebnis in der Gewinn- und Verlustrechnung hast, je nachdem wann welche Berechnung du anstellst.
15:46:18 <frakturfreak> Die Aufwendungen aus dem Grundgeschäft sind allerdings mit der Verbuchung als Verbindlichkeit quasi fix. Änderungen durch Kursschwankungen werden auf die entsprechenden Aufwands- und Ertragskonten gebucht.
15:46:53 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
15:47:06 <frakturfreak> also Erträge bzw. Aufwendungen aus Währungsumrechnung
15:56:14 <roxart> frakturfreak ich denke ich habe das nicht korrekt abgeschlossen und die aufwand / ertragskonti "einfach laufen lassen" - da brauche ich mal eine anleitung wie das richtig geht... :)
15:56:36 <roxart> was das andere betrifft verstehe ich nicht, wieso das über ein Jahr dann "aufgeht" und im nächsten nicht mehr.
15:57:08 <roxart> mir ist schon klar, dass es durch Kursschwankungen Gewinn / Verlust geben kann - das sollte doch aber automatisch berechnet werden und in Bilanz / ER dann gleich hoch ausfallen?
15:57:47 <roxart> Ich wollte einfach die einfachste Möglichkeit unser Euro Konto abzubilden und der Grossteil unsererer Einkäufe geht in Euro ab dem Konto da wir in DE bestellen müssen...
16:00:59 *** jw4 has quit IRC
16:01:34 *** jw4 has joined #gnucash
16:09:30 <frakturfreak> Das Bankkonto kann ruhig in Euro geführt werden. Nur halt Aufwand und Ertrag nicht
16:10:32 <frakturfreak> bei Gelegenheit Devisenhandel:Currency:CHF durchschauen um zu überprüfen, ob sich Differenzen bei der Bezahlung von ER/AR ergeben haben
16:11:48 *** gcer2021 has joined #gnucash
16:12:16 <roxart> wie "flicke" ich das denn jetzt? den Abschluss 19 habe ich ja jetzt so gemacht - wohl nicht sauber kann ich das irgendwie jetzt noch ändern das es für 20 besser ist
16:13:06 <frakturfreak> Bestand zum 01.01. per Devisenkassamittelkurs umrechnen und damit beginnen. Rest auf Periodenfremde Aufwendungen/Erträge wegknallen
16:13:09 <roxart> ich mag mich noch erinnern, dass ich die euro ausgaben auch mal versucht hatte direkt auf ein CHF aufwands konto zu buchen, was dann aber auch zu umrechnungsproblemen geführt hat
16:13:42 <frakturfreak> ja je nachdem wo man bucht, stellt sich gnucash etwas komisch an
16:14:26 <gcer2021> if i delete an account and move its xacts to an account in a different currency, the trading accounts are created wrong. if an old xact had trading accounts, the values are carried forward unconverted. am i missing a setting or option to make this work correctly?
16:14:58 <roxart> bestand von was meinst du jetzt?
16:15:04 <frakturfreak> roxart: Aber CHF-Aufwandskonto ist schon die richtige idee
16:15:10 <frakturfreak> roxart: Bestand des Eurokontos
16:15:30 <frakturfreak> sofern jetzt keine weiteren Forderungen und Verbindlichkeiten in Euro existieren
16:16:10 <roxart> ich glaube ich muss 19er noch "richtig" abschliessen und dann wohl die 20er buchungen anpassen aber ich steh hier echt vor ner wand :)
16:16:59 <roxart> so wie du das sagst hört sich das an das euro konto dann gar nicht mehr zu verwenden wenn ich den bestand umrechnen soll?
16:21:22 <roxart> ich denke wenn ich das einem von euch zweien konkret zeigen kann ist es einfacher zu verstehen...
16:22:38 <frakturfreak> Nein ich meine dass auf dem Konto Devisenhandel:CURRENCY:EUR zum 01.01.2021 den Wert haben sollte mit dem du startest
16:22:51 <frakturfreak> ach ne warte mal
16:24:02 <roxart> bin ganz ohr
16:25:42 <frakturfreak> sagen wir zum 01.01.2021 0:00 Hatte das Konto einen Bestand von 1000 CHF bzw 1200 EUR. Dann buch es so, dass die Bestände der Devisenhandelskonto eben mit diesem Wert starten und den Rest auf Währungsumrechnung aus
16:26:10 <frakturfreak> bzw. Periodenfremd
16:27:05 <frakturfreak> Ansonsten kannst du natürlich gern auch 19 durchforsten, wenn der Abschluss noch nicht bei den Behörden eingereicht und durch ist
16:27:18 <roxart> doch der ist durch
16:27:21 <frakturfreak> ok
16:27:24 <frakturfreak> dann Periodenfremd
16:27:46 <roxart> ich meinte nur den punkt der fell gesagt hat, dass ich die aufwand / ertrag konten nicht abgeschlossen / auf 0 gesetzt habe
16:28:13 <frakturfreak> ach so, nagut bei gnucash muss man das ja nicht
16:28:21 <roxart> also die letzte buchung 19 war am 10.12.2019 und dann war der saldo auf dem EUR Konto 4116.23
16:29:04 <roxart> da es ja keinen Zins gibt, war das auch am 1.1. so
16:31:01 <roxart> jetzt gibt es ein devisenhandels konto CHF und ein EUR - die wurden ja automatisch angelegt
16:31:06 <roxart> was genau soll ich da jetzt buchen?
16:32:18 <roxart> da ist die letzte buchung 19 am 4.10. und die erste 20 am 13.1.
16:33:10 <roxart> da wir immer nur in eine richtung wechseln geht CHF da hoch und eur immer runter im saldo
16:34:16 <frakturfreak> https://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/curConverter.do also ich konnte jetzt auf die schnelle keinen taggenauenumrechner bei der NAtionalbank finden
16:34:36 <roxart> das saldo vom EUR ist per 31.12.19 also bei -71127
16:35:50 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
16:35:53 <roxart> also vom currency:eur konto meine ich
16:36:38 <roxart> sorry ich verstehe nicht was du genau für eine buchung machen möchtest - die zwei eur bzw chf currency konten ausgleichen oder was genau?
16:37:01 <jralls> gcer2021, I hope you're using an old version of GnuCash. It's not supposed to allow you to move splits to an account with a different currency.
16:37:06 <frakturfreak> 4446.35 CHF
16:37:35 <frakturfreak> roxart: stecken in diesem Saldo noch andere Werte?
16:37:42 <roxart> das sind 4116.23 euro zum tageskurs 1.1.?
16:38:26 <frakturfreak> laut EZB-Rechner, kann natürlich sein, dass die SNB anders rechnet, wie gesagt ich hab dort auf die schnelle jetzt keine Tageskurse gefunden sondern nur Monats- und Jahresdurchschnitte
16:38:38 <frakturfreak> aber sagen wir mal in der Größenordnung
16:38:48 <gcer2021> jralls: 4.4 - it gives a warning pop-up but still proceeds.
16:38:50 <roxart> ja das ist das saldo vom EUR bank konto
16:39:03 <roxart> -71127 vom Currency:EUR konto
16:39:17 <roxart> ich kann dir sonst meinen bildschirm scharen in discord wenn das einfacher ist
16:39:24 <roxart> *sharen
16:39:48 <jralls> gcer2021, that's unfortunate. It can only produce garbage results.
16:40:01 <frakturfreak> und der vom Currency-Eurokonto muss halt der negative Wert des Bankeurokontos sein
16:41:03 <frakturfreak> Die Differenz buchst du auf dem Currency-Eurokonto auf periodenfremde Erträge
16:41:32 <gcer2021> jralls: ok, i won't use it. is there any workaround to accomplish this objective? (moving all xacts to an account in a different currency, using the pricedb to get correct trading accts)
16:41:39 <jralls> gcer2021 but I seem to recall losing the argument about it on the grounds that some mythical user might need to do it to recover from making a mistake and be able to do it some way that doesn't result in corrupted data.
16:42:24 <roxart> ich glaube das sieht hier nicht ganz so aus wie du das meinst - magst du kurz reinschauen per discord / skype?
16:44:01 <jralls> gcer2021, no. First, the pricedb and trading accounts don't interact. Second, there's no way to correct the exchange rates on the splits. The only thing you can do is delete all of the transactions and reenter them correctly.
16:44:38 *** ArtGravity has quit IRC
16:45:39 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
16:46:09 <gcer2021> jralls: too many xacts to do manually. :( i suppose i could massage the xml directly... or is there a better workaround via sql?
16:46:12 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
16:46:46 *** guak has quit IRC
16:47:11 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
16:47:13 <jralls> gcer2021, Then your book is irreparably hosed. How can you justify having too many transactions to fix manually that are in the wrong currency?
16:48:40 <gcer2021> jralls: built up over time. wasn't watching closely enough... just a personal book; not a biz
16:51:26 *** mydogsnameisrudy has joined #gnucash
16:51:30 <chris> fell: so you wish to remove most reports just because there's no documnetation? then I'll fork gnucash and take warlord and jralls with me.
16:52:13 <warlord> lol
16:52:28 <jralls> Are the actual amounts and values on the splits the right numbers, it's just that the account has the wrong currency? If so you could change the account and trading account currencies by editing the XML. Don't forget to change the trading account name too.
16:53:13 *** mydogsnameisrudy has quit IRC
16:53:22 <jralls> chris, fell, let's go better and remove all of the features that aren't well documented. It will immensely reduce the maintenance effort! ;-)
16:53:55 <jralls> Starting with budgets! :->
16:54:01 <warlord> lol
16:54:04 <chris> ^ too dam right
16:54:22 <warlord> while we're at it, let's remove code that doesn't have automated tests. That will rid of us most of the GUI! :)
16:54:46 <jralls> Most of everything, actually.
16:55:00 <chris> we'll be left with scm_boot_guile
16:57:24 <gcer2021> jralls: if i understand you, no. the values are all correct for the currently used accounts. but when the split is moved to the different currency account, its value would need to change based on the pricedb rate, for the trading acct too
16:58:33 <gcer2021> jralls: basically the scenario should be if the account is deleted and the xacts moved, it should be more like a new xact entry that refs the pricedb
16:58:45 <jralls> gcer2021, it's essentially impossible that you have the correct rates in the pricedb for all splits; it's unlikely that you have the correct rate for even one.
16:59:11 <chris> warlord/jralls: I can see only 1 entry in budget - the slots table - what's the other one?
16:59:54 * chris swears oath to australia today \o/
16:59:54 <gcer2021> jralls: yes - i'd have to pre-load the pricedb
17:01:34 <jralls> gcer2021, Where do you think that you'd find the correct rates? Historical trading prices available from finance sites aren't going to be the ones you got in actual transactions.
17:02:59 <jralls> chris, congratulations.
17:03:47 <gcer2021> jralls: true. it'd be a "good enough" effort. would it be possible to export the register, delete the account, massage the csv, and import?
17:03:53 <jralls> chris, adam is the one who was asking about budget data.
17:04:14 <chris> ok budget_amounts table for sql only
17:04:20 <jralls> gcer2021 that is likely your best bet.
17:05:23 <chris> jralls: ugh. gnc-budget-sql.cpp - AMOUNTS_TABLE
17:06:05 <gcer2021> jralls: ok. does that eliminate the need to populate the pricedb? since the correct amounts would be in the csv -> imported account's xacts?
17:07:47 <chris> gcer2021: does importing csv allow importing txns with *priced* amounts?
17:08:46 <jralls> Yeah, that's a concern. There's been a fair amount of traffic here and on gnucash-user about people having trouble getting multicurrency imports to work right.
17:09:30 <jralls> Might be safer to make the CSV and then use a csv->ofx or csv->qif tool so you can use either of those importers instead of the csv one.
17:11:15 <gcer2021> chris, jralls: not sure - haven't used it yet. qif? i thought that was specifically NOT multi-currency?
17:11:28 <chris> gcer2021: no QIF can import shares
17:12:05 <chris> gcer2021: no, QIF can import shares
17:14:22 <frakturfreak> roxart: Gute Nacht!
17:14:35 <roxart> gn8
17:15:04 <gcer2021> chris: Hmmm... One of the steps in QIF Import says "Choose the QIF file currency..."
17:16:04 <chris> yes this would be the main currency
17:17:29 <gcer2021> chris: ok, i'll run some tests...
17:22:40 <gcer2021> separate question: if i discover that some pricedb entries are incorrect and fix them, is there a simple way to tell gnucash to run through all accounts using the (updated) pricedb? most xacts wouldn't change, but this would clean up any that needed it without doing manual work...
17:23:45 <chris> huh what does it mean to run through all accounts? you mean update the amounts? no this is senseless
17:25:29 <gcer2021> i meant something like, maybe, a "check & repair" that would redo any currency translations using the (fixed) pricedb
17:26:19 <chris> this is senseless. what would you do about currency imbalances? eg modify USD/JPY from 2013, and now your JPY balance will change?
17:26:57 <chris> the pricedb is best considered a lookup-table of the latest price available
17:26:58 <jralls> gcer2021, individual splits don't use the pricedb.
17:27:38 <chris> e.g. input a USD/JPY on 1/1/2001 -> creates pricedb. then create another txn on 1/1/2001 involving USD/JPY ->> overwrites the pricedb entry.
17:28:06 <jralls> Each transaction has a currency. Each split in the transaction has an amount in the split's currency/commodity and a value in the transaction currency. The price is the ratio of the two.
17:30:22 <gcer2021> i think that's how i understand it. and the price stays in the pricedb to be re-used if another xact is entered for that date. but what happens if i later realize that pricedb entry is wrong when looking at one old transaction? i can fix that one at that time, but what about the other(s)? all need to be manually located & fixed?
17:30:57 <chris> yes
17:31:27 <jralls> No, the stored price is *offered* for subsequent transactions. But rounding in the value is likely to change the actual price on the split.
17:31:53 *** guak has joined #gnucash
17:32:03 <jralls> Changing the pricedb entry has no effect at all on any splits.
17:33:17 <jralls> It's common for users to enter a stock transaction and then retrieve the closing price for the stock later in the day. The pricedb will update with the closing price, but it would screw up the basis of the stock if it affected the transaction.
17:34:00 <jralls> Keep in mind that a split price is always calculated: It's the amount and value that are stored.
17:34:03 *** truelehr has quit IRC
17:36:59 <jralls> So if you find that you have a transaction with the wrong price then you right-click on the transaction or split and pick "edit exchange rate" from the context menu.
17:38:49 <gcer2021> OK, thanks - i think i've got it. but i went away and tried something that i thought would be simple but got unexpected result: to a USD cash account added a xact of 100 for USD groceries; then went back to the xact and changed from USD groceries to CAD groceries; gnucash uses the same 100 for CAD; when i try to edit exchange rate it says the xact is
17:39:09 <gcer2021> balanced and can't do an exchange rate - is this correct?
17:40:02 <gcer2021> do i have to manually compute the CAD amount for this to work?
17:40:19 <jralls> When you use trading accounts, yes.
17:41:10 <jralls> Put the transaction in split view and edit the exchange rate on the CAD split.
17:41:17 <gcer2021> ??? why isn't the usd/cad rate offered as if i had entered it that way to begin with?
17:42:06 <gcer2021> tried that - it always says the xact is balanced so no exchange rate
17:42:15 <chris> warlord: what's the exact relation between session and book? can one exist without the other? in which order?
17:42:57 <chris> gcer2021: editing account currencies will be frought with frustrations like that... this is why jralls's advice to reenter all invalid data is much much easier
17:43:15 <jralls> chris, the relation is RAII: The session loads the book in the constructor and destroys it in the destructor.
17:45:03 <gcer2021> chris, jralls: ok, thanks!
17:45:21 <chris> jralls: trying to debug some warnings whereby session exists but book=NULL: load xml, saveas sqlite3.
17:46:39 <jralls> Did GC crash? That should create a new session with the SQLite3 book.
17:47:50 <chris> no crash but e.g. gnc-main-window.c:1565 is reached with book=NULL which logs a warn
17:48:14 <chris> so during the transition there's two sessions active?
17:48:48 <chris> 6 warnings in my last count
17:53:43 <jralls> Sounds like window operations are happening before the session is ready.
18:02:10 *** chris_ has joined #gnucash
18:02:21 *** chris_ has joined #gnucash
18:02:21 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris_
18:03:30 *** chris has quit IRC
18:04:26 *** chris_ is now known as chris
18:16:05 *** truelehr has joined #gnucash
18:18:29 *** gcer2021 has quit IRC
18:20:49 *** Aussie_matt has joined #gnucash
18:25:53 *** truelehr has quit IRC
18:46:32 <warlord> chris, you have have a session without a book, but you cannot have a book without a session.
18:46:59 <warlord> The book is just the data; the session contains additional metadata about the book
18:47:00 *** roxart has quit IRC
19:11:01 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
19:34:40 <chris> what kind of additional metadata exist? filename / xml-or-sql ?
19:36:25 <jralls> chris, URL, book, and backend.
19:36:32 *** jcarl43 has quit IRC
19:36:39 <jralls> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/libgnucash/engine/qofsession.hpp
19:46:19 <chris> 798102 is interesting... the 1st reply says it's acceptable
20:24:09 <jralls> You mean the reply on the list to your assertion it's a bug. He's wrong and he obviously isn't interested in any sort of rigor. Maybe he doesn't even understand that the reconciled balance in the first account is now off and he can't reconcile going forward unless he creates an adjustment.
20:26:34 <jralls> chris, meanwhile https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798097 seems familiar. Didn't you fix a crash involving the busy cursor in November?
21:01:52 <jralls> chris, Oh, not quite. I remember now, you were reimplementing gnc_run_report and wondered if you should use gnc_set_busy_cursor and I told you not to, the progress bar provides the user entertainment.
21:25:21 *** field^Mop has quit IRC
21:30:32 *** guak has quit IRC
21:59:13 *** chf1 has joined #gnucash
21:59:13 *** chf has quit IRC
22:47:51 *** chris has quit IRC
22:48:08 *** chris has joined #gnucash
22:48:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v chris
22:48:13 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
23:21:49 *** Aussie_matt has quit IRC