2020-11-24 GnuCash IRC logs
00:14:04 *** jw4 has quit IRC
00:54:05 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
01:07:35 *** jw4 has joined #gnucash
01:07:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v jw4
01:11:28 *** fell has quit IRC
01:12:17 *** fell has joined #gnucash
01:12:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
01:33:07 *** jw4 has quit IRC
01:34:06 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
01:34:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
01:35:38 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
01:49:24 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
02:09:17 *** fell has quit IRC
02:09:37 *** fell has joined #gnucash
02:09:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
02:13:02 *** CDB-Work has quit IRC
02:44:26 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
02:58:08 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
02:58:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v frakturfreak
03:50:04 *** User has joined #gnucash
03:54:44 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
03:54:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o gjanssens
05:10:35 *** qwer has joined #gnucash
05:14:39 *** qwer has quit IRC
05:15:15 *** qwer has joined #gnucash
05:23:09 *** storyjesse has joined #gnucash
05:40:41 *** User has quit IRC
06:02:23 *** Herbert has joined #gnucash
06:45:10 *** Aussie_matt has quit IRC
07:25:48 *** flips has quit IRC
07:25:56 *** flips has joined #gnucash
07:25:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v flips
07:32:31 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
07:34:11 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
07:59:25 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
08:00:16 *** chris has joined #gnucash
08:00:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v chris
08:00:16 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
08:01:12 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
08:11:45 *** qwer has quit IRC
08:21:56 <chris> CDB: what you're really doing is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development
08:34:30 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
08:48:05 *** chris has quit IRC
08:51:18 *** chris has joined #gnucash
08:51:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v chris
08:51:18 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
08:56:36 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
08:57:28 *** Jimraehl1 has quit IRC
08:58:06 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
09:16:44 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
09:30:58 *** Kaell has joined #gnucash
09:30:59 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
09:31:10 *** Kaell has quit IRC
09:34:47 *** jervin has quit IRC
09:40:31 <chris> warlord: part of doing an average-cost report is figuring out the myriad ways in which a stock txn may be constructed. I think it is difficult to create an error-free stock txn hence have done https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/818
09:41:26 <chris> I'm sure you'll agree it is a worth while effort. If you read code, you'll find when the stock balance currently zero, it will offer both Buy and Sell(ie. shorting)
09:41:41 <chris> capgains values will need to be input manually
09:50:12 *** storyjesse has quit IRC
10:32:15 *** qwer has joined #gnucash
10:32:36 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
10:37:22 *** qwer has quit IRC
10:42:30 *** qwer has joined #gnucash
10:54:23 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
10:54:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
11:14:38 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
11:28:19 <CDB-PHONE> [09:41] (@chris) capgains values will need to be input manually
11:29:19 <CDB-PHONE> correction, the cap gain amount can be formulaically calculated from net cash - cost basis = cap gain
11:29:36 <CDB-PHONE> and net cash = sales price - fees paid
11:29:56 <CDB-PHONE> cap gain does not need to be an input, because it is derived from everything else
11:30:52 *** jcarl43 has joined #gnucash
11:30:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v jcarl43
11:30:57 *** Agfarmer18 has joined #gnucash
11:31:47 <chris> CDB: Hmm agree - however if user has no idea that capgains split must be input, their imbalance will be recorded as capgain
11:32:26 <chris> Part of reasoning for dialog-stock-edit is to enforce sum(values) = 0, otherwise OK is grayed out.
11:32:42 <CDB-PHONE> no, I'm saying the tool should compute and auto complete the cap gain value
11:32:48 <CDB-PHONE> from all the other fields
11:33:04 <CDB-PHONE> cap gain does not need to be an input, the tool should just calculate it and create the split
11:33:35 <CDB-PHONE> one less human entry for a user to muck up
11:34:24 <chris> hmm. when you finish your book-2.0.gnucash I'll see more clearly - if Capgain is only input for a genuine SELL (and none for div/roc/ss) then I can understand the rationale
11:36:07 <CDB-PHONE> we can gray out the cap gain input for the sell transaction only
11:36:08 <chris> I get what you're saying... just need to think how dialog will work
11:36:41 <CDB-PHONE> Gray out and auto compute a value, only allow input on those other transactions where it's not a computable value
11:37:13 <chris> we can gray out the cap gain input for the sell transaction only --> you mean capgain is auto-computed for SELL only, others don't have capgain at all?
11:38:54 <chris> gtg
11:39:20 *** chris has quit IRC
11:40:17 *** chris has joined #gnucash
11:40:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v chris
11:40:17 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
11:40:50 <CDB-PHONE> you mean capgain is auto-computed for SELL only <--- correct
11:41:49 <CDB-PHONE> others don't have capgain at all? <--- potentially, but I need to give this some thought. if other types did have a gain, 99% likely it cannot be computed and should be an input. I need to really think about it
11:55:52 *** guak has joined #gnucash
12:04:22 *** PowaBanga has quit IRC
12:27:53 <jralls> CDB-PHONE, I don't see how a dividend or RoC would generate a cap gain.
12:28:34 <CDB-PHONE> it's more notional distributions that I'm concerned about
12:28:39 <CDB-PHONE> and reverse splits
12:28:55 <jralls> CDB-PHONE As for the automatic calculation, yes, net proceeds - basis = cap gain. The devil is in figuring out the basis.
12:29:12 <CDB-PHONE> basis will always be an input value
12:29:25 <jralls> Ah.
12:30:08 <CDB-PHONE> CG is the only derived/computed value
12:30:25 <jralls> Reverse splits are just like regular ones. There's a cap gain on any cash-in-lieu. I've no experience with notionals, I'm not sure they're even legal in the US.
12:31:06 <CDB-PHONE> it's the cash in lieu part that I want to give some thought on the minimum required inputs
12:31:53 *** PowaBanga has joined #gnucash
12:32:09 <jralls> The basis, just like in a sale--because it's a sale.
12:32:35 <CDB-PHONE> in the examples in Canada, notional comes from forward contracts on currency swaps held in ETF
12:34:27 <CDB-PHONE> in any case this is a topic for the weekend, don't have the bandwidth to give it thought now
12:46:17 *** bertbob has quit IRC
12:57:56 <jralls> warlord, virt-viewer is being pissy about the ihtfp.org certificate: Error in server certificate verification: CA signature digest algorithm too weak (num=68:depth0:/O=IHTFP Consulting Inc/CN=OVIRT-0.IHTFP.ORG). Could you put a Letsencrypt one on it instead?
13:00:26 <warlord> I dont think there is a good or easy way to migrate ovirt to L-E certs.
13:00:42 <warlord> I can probably re-deploy a new cert, however.
13:00:53 <jralls> OK.
13:25:26 <warlord> I've been hesitant to do that, only because I don't know what else it might break if I do.
13:25:45 *** ericdm has quit IRC
13:27:35 <jralls> Well... it's broken now so I guess no worries?
13:34:50 <jralls> warlord, this might be helpful: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/thread/NZBGRCKW6WA4WISTCRDJIFUCMNIKJ2CG/
13:47:10 *** qwer has quit IRC
13:49:47 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
13:49:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
13:52:27 *** ericdm has joined #gnucash
13:52:31 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
14:06:56 <warlord> It's "working" for me ;)
14:09:05 *** jervin has quit IRC
14:15:23 <warlord> My fear is that this is a rathole that once I start down it might take hours to test/verify/recover. I'll try to find time to jump in that. I'm not sure I want to go the L-E route for this right now, vs just another private cert.
14:17:47 <warlord> The bigger issue going forward is that there is not a clean path to get from EL7+Ovirt-4.3 to EL8+Ovirt-4.4 on a single server.
14:23:52 <jralls> warlord, short term I managed to get in with my ubuntu-18.04 vm, apparently it didn't get the updated virt-viewer package that fedora33 and debian buster did.
14:24:26 <jralls> I don't understand the "single server" constraint. Does that mean that ovirt4.4 requires a cluster?
14:27:40 <warlord> No, upgrading from EL7+Ovirt-4.3 to EL8+Ovirt-4.4 requires a full system re-install and cannot be done via 'yum update'
14:28:23 <warlord> If you have a cluster then you can migrate all VMs off one system, reinstall it, and then re-add it to the cluster...
14:28:34 <warlord> So you can round-robin update all hosts.
14:34:12 <jralls> And without a cluster there's no way to archive and restore the hosts after the upgrade so you have to rebuild each one from scratch?
14:35:35 <warlord> Pretty much.. I mean, I can backup the configuration, but if the re-install fails with a single-host, I'm screwed. With a cluster, if there's a problem with one host, the other two are at least still running!
14:38:01 <jralls> So you need a real cluster with fail-over, just having another system on the net running ovirt won't do. :(
14:42:15 <warlord> Ovirt does clustering, so really I would need 2 more machines running on the net that are equivalent to my current ovirt server, both running ovirt, and building a 3-host ovirt cluster.
14:42:39 <warlord> Then I can do host-based management with zero VM downtime.
14:43:22 <warlord> Of course, the *next* time I will need to do this is, most likely, when EL9 comes out and Ovirt moves to that, in like another 5-7 years.
14:43:55 <warlord> Two more systems would cost about $10k, give or take.
14:43:59 <warlord> ($5k ea)
14:44:27 <jralls> That's a lot of money for a once-every-5-years requirement.
14:45:32 <warlord> It is more often that that, tho. It means I don't have to shut down VMs whenever I want to do host-based maintenance. So e.g. upgrading from Ovirt 4.4 to 4.5 would not require any GnuCash downtime.
14:46:24 <warlord> Right now, any time I want to update Ovirt at all I need to shut down all the VMs in order to update the VM Host. So I don't do it often due to that. With a cluster, I could be updating much more frequently because there is no concern for significant downtime.
14:46:31 <jralls> GnuCash can survive a little downtime now and again. Nothing bad happened when you were down for a weekend last month.
14:47:10 <warlord> Glad to hear that, and I know it can generally handle planned downtime.
14:47:18 <warlord> There needs to be downtime to update code.
14:48:13 <warlord> So yeah, I don't know how I'm going to update from 7/4.3 to 8/4.4
14:48:34 <warlord> I'm actually scared thinking about it.
14:51:33 <jralls> Is ovirt running on code, vice-versa, or are they separate? And 7 vs. 8 means RHEL/Centos7 and 8?
14:52:05 <warlord> Code is a VM running on ovirt. And yes 7/8 means RHEL/CentOS
14:53:09 *** bertbob has quit IRC
14:53:37 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
14:53:40 <warlord> Ovirt is like VMware Server
14:56:39 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
14:58:22 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
14:58:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
14:58:23 <jralls> You could install el8 onto a different disk. That way if the vm transfer goes wrong you can easily just boot back up on the current one.
15:00:25 <jralls> You could even do all of the work with the disk connected to a different computer. Even if you're using a hardware raid it's still much cheaper than 10K.
15:00:46 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
15:01:01 <warlord> The VM data is all on separate disks from the OS -- the VMs are on SSDs; the OS is on spinning media.
15:02:42 <jralls> What's involved in migrating the VMs to 4.4?
15:03:32 <warlord> Nothing; the VMs don't need to change, just the underlying host / ovirt system and the ovirt engine VM.
15:03:45 <warlord> So I don't need to do anything to code
15:04:07 <warlord> But I need to reinstall and reconfigure the host OS and the ovirt engine VM / OS
15:04:48 <jralls> That's good then. Just set up el8 on a new disk, boot the server to it, and everything should work. If not, boot back to the old disk for status quo ante and figure out what went wrong.
15:05:34 <warlord> I need to figure out if I need to update the host or the engine first.
15:05:57 <jralls> Neither, you're doing a fresh install on a blank disk.
15:07:01 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
15:08:25 <warlord> I see what you mean -- I was hoping to continue using the pair of 3TB HDDs I've got mirrors for the OS. But I could theoretically reinstall into a new LVM partition.
15:11:17 <warlord> So technically I could create new root LV
15:11:19 <jralls> Or install onto whatever has the minimum amount of space needed to make sure everything works and to run on while you reconfigure the raid.
15:13:50 <jralls> Something like https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-BarraCuda-Internal-Drive-3-5-Inch/dp/B07H2RR55Q/ref=sr_1_3?_encoding=UTF8&c=ts&dchild=1&keywords=Internal+Hard+Drives&qid=1606248760&s=pc&sr=1-3&ts_id=1254762011 if you don't have anything suitable lying around.
15:14:09 <warlord> I think it is a little more complicated than that. I do need to reinstall both the host and the hosted-engine VM. I think I can install the host into a new LV, and I think I can build a new engine VM..
15:22:04 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
15:22:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
15:23:06 <jralls> OK, if that works and lets you keep a working partition for insurance.
15:51:02 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
15:57:19 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
16:38:57 *** Aussie_matt has joined #gnucash
16:45:49 *** ArtGravity has joined #gnucash
16:45:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v ArtGravity
16:57:33 <warlord> The only thing I can't "keep" is /boot -- BUT I can have that all co-exist so I should be fine. Grub should be able to boot off either LV.
17:01:22 *** fell_laptop has joined #gnucash
17:01:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell_laptop
17:01:23 *** fell has quit IRC
17:02:18 <jralls> Right, that's the whole point of grub.
17:10:52 *** Agfarmer18 has quit IRC
17:13:43 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
17:14:21 *** fell_laptop is now known as fell
17:18:15 *** bertbob has quit IRC
17:26:44 <chris> CDB-PHONE: if we're inputting basis for SELL, now I get it. Summary: offer basis as an input field. capgain autocalc. Disable basis & capgains if not selling. Do we also offer option to input capgain and autocalc basis?
17:27:44 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
17:28:33 <chris> CDB: ditto (possibly) ND enables basis or capgain, and autocalcs other field?
17:33:52 <CDB-PHONE> it could be a check box for auto calc yes
17:34:07 <CDB-PHONE> just for those users that prefer to do anything manually
17:34:34 <CDB-PHONE> even though your debit equal credit validation is essentially going to prevent anything but the calculated value anyways
17:34:55 *** jervin has quit IRC
17:35:27 <chris> hmm that's the rub: Dr=Cr currently doesn't apply to capg because capg can be anything
17:35:45 <CDB-PHONE> [17:28] (@chris) CDB: ditto (possibly) ND enables basis or capgain, and autocalcs other field? <-- this requires a lot more thought, I could give an "off the cuff" answer now, but I wouldn't be confident in it without more thought, so I'll withhold potentially confusing yet to be confirmed information
17:36:49 <CDB-PHONE> [17:35] (@chris) hmm that's the rub: Dr=Cr currently doesn't apply to capg because capg can be anything --- well every transaction in the book attached to the ticket has debit equal credit, the tool can hijack on the trading account auto fill, it necessarily has to always Dr = Cr
17:37:19 <CDB-PHONE> it is literally impossible to not have Dr = Cr
17:37:40 * chris wish he could have beta win32 builds
17:37:58 <CDB-PHONE> else Gnucash would create an imbalance split, and you can see there's none in my example book
17:54:21 <jralls> chris so learn how. It's a bit fiddly but not difficult.
17:57:29 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
17:57:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
17:59:10 <chris> CDB: meanwhile https://github.com/christopherlam/gnucash/blob/maint-stock-editor/gnucash/report/reports/standard/average-cost-basis.scm being updated.
17:59:22 <chris> ^ for start/enddate
18:40:01 *** ArtGravity has quit IRC
18:57:21 *** mib_b8f7rq has joined #gnucash
19:00:06 *** Robert847 has quit IRC
19:12:23 *** mib_b8f7rq has quit IRC
19:24:21 *** chris has quit IRC
19:34:53 *** jcarl43 has quit IRC
20:25:11 *** bertbob has quit IRC
20:34:23 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
20:34:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
20:39:17 *** bertbob has quit IRC
20:54:37 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
20:54:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
21:16:12 *** chf has quit IRC
21:16:40 *** chf has joined #gnucash
21:20:36 *** guak has quit IRC
21:26:20 *** chf has quit IRC
21:35:55 *** Robert847 has joined #gnucash
21:39:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Robert847
21:42:22 <Robert847> I have a weird problem. I am running GnuCash 3.8 in Linux Lite. I did something that made GnuCash disappear from the desktop but I see in htop that it is still running. How can I get it back to the desktop?
21:49:45 <Robert847> All I know is that I accidentally touched some key on the keyboard and GnuCash and probably a few other programs disappeared from all four active desktops, leaving onlt the backgrounds visible.
21:52:40 <Robert847> I found my problem. I accidentally minimized all windows. I found a way to restore all minimized windows.
21:53:18 <Robert847> :-[
22:11:36 *** chf has joined #gnucash
22:16:02 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
22:22:37 *** chris has joined #gnucash
22:22:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v chris
22:22:37 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
22:35:56 *** jervin has quit IRC
22:40:02 *** JayC has quit IRC
23:25:53 *** o01eg has quit IRC
23:28:26 *** FH_thecat has quit IRC
23:45:22 *** JayC has joined #gnucash
23:45:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v JayC