2020-11-18 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:14:31 <kab1955> I have recently updated to Gnucash 4.2 on a Windows 10 (64bit 20H2).
00:14:31 <kab1955> I have discovered that when I highlight characters in the NUM field, to change them, it will delete twice as many characters than what were highlighted. This behavior does not happen in the DESCRIPTION field.
00:14:31 <kab1955> Has anyone else seen this ?
00:15:17 <kab1955> The previous version of Gnucash did not act this way.
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01:05:03 <CDB-PHONE> kab1955: the Americans and Europeans are all asleep right now. if you wait around for about 5 more hours, the Europeans will start to awake
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02:39:52 <Gnucash> I'm new to IRC. Can anyone tell me if and when gnucash will run on big sur
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03:20:29 <Johnzim> I'm new to IRC. Can anyone tell me if and when gnucash will run on big sur
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06:18:04 <chris> CDB-PHONE if you're 100% confident of your formulas, then there's no reason the ACB calculator can't be formalized as a C formula and added into stock-editor.
06:19:56 <chris> I consider ACB ~= unit_price of security, in home currency units, at a particular date. IIUC it is as jurisdiction-neutral concept of security price as we can get...
06:20:10 <chris> this price can be used in reports.
06:20:26 <chris> instead of the incorrectly named 'average-cost'
06:27:06 <chris> It'd need to be in 2 parts: generate_acb_list (stock_account, capitalize_boolean) which retrieves proceeds/capg/divi/fees which generates a date/acb list, and get_acb_at_date (acb_list, date) to retrieve exact data
06:30:20 <chris> lol CDB reinventing the wheel https://www.adjustedcostbase.ca/ try Guest access
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06:35:39 <chris> the fact there's a web-based tool is reason enough to implement it in gnucash
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07:06:23 <fell> Chris, can you add "ACB" to po/glossary?
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08:29:12 <kab1955> I have recently updated to Gnucash 4.2 on a Windows 10 (64bit 20H2).
08:29:12 <kab1955> I have discovered that when I highlight characters in the NUM field, to change them, it will delete twice as many characters than what were highlighted. This behavior does not happen in the DESCRIPTION field.
08:29:12 <kab1955> Has anyone else seen this ?
08:29:12 <kab1955> The previous version of Gnucash (3.8) did not act this way.
08:29:57 <warlord> kab1955, maybe gjanssens can help.. jralls is still asleep.
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08:51:42 <CDB-PHONE> chris: "adjusted cost basis" is Canadian terminology
08:52:25 <CDB-PHONE> "average cost" is the general term
08:53:07 <CDB-PHONE> adding it into the software might not be a good idea because of all these other tax jurisdictions that use methods like FIFO, such as the USA
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08:53:39 <CDB-PHONE> will throw people off if the software "defaults" to something
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08:54:17 <CDB-PHONE> we can't have the software "default to GAAP", since not everyone uses it for GAAP
08:54:35 <CDB-PHONE> people that use it for tax are not going to appreciate it
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09:12:06 <chris> CDB: ok. the dialog is general enough though isn't it?
09:13:26 <CDB-PHONE> I think so, haven't really looked in detail yet though
09:14:22 <chris> Moreover if we won't enforce GAAP's 'everything converted to home-currency' limit, then the CAPG/DIVI/CASH/FEES are locked to stock's (modifiable) parent account rather than the (unmodifiable) root account
09:15:45 <chris> CDB: I'm sure you'll have noticed the reports' average-cost gives spurious prices... they're nowhere as sophisticated as you'll want
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09:16:39 <CDB-PHONE> converting everything to home currency is enforced not just by GAAP, but also most tax jurisdictions
09:17:09 <chris> "people that use it for tax are not going to appreciate it" -> not understand... but that's ok.
09:17:19 <CDB-PHONE> enforcing home currency is impractical until we have proper home currency functionality in the software
09:18:16 <CDB-PHONE> [09:17] (@chris) "people that use it for tax are not going to appreciate it" -> not understand... but that's ok. -- people that use Gnucash to track cost basis for something like USA FIFO method are not going to like a tool that assumes average cost is the only way to do things
09:18:33 <CDB-PHONE> not sure what you mean about the locking comment
09:19:10 <CDB-PHONE> not sure either what you mean about the tool giving spurious prices, they looked okay to me on first cut
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09:20:23 <chris> locking: while creating a stock-txn the various capg/divi/cash/fees must be demoninated into a currency.. what do we choose? stock' parent currency or root currency? eitherway it shouldn't be an option in the stock-editor.
09:20:54 <CDB-PHONE> well, in the future state, root currency ought to be the only choice
09:21:21 <CDB-PHONE> or rather, you can enter it in USD, but the software will always convert it to CAD for you
09:21:24 <chris> spurious prices: I meant acb-tool is fine (If I may say so myself) but is average-cost in balance-sheet.scm giving good valuations? even with complicated stock activity?
09:22:07 <CDB-PHONE> the (new) balance sheet isn't going to be able to accumulate it properly without currency support
09:22:18 <CDB-PHONE> that's kinda what started this entire rabbit hole
09:22:41 <chris> but is the old balancesheet average-cost 100% correct?
09:22:51 <CDB-PHONE> negative
09:22:57 <CDB-PHONE> same issues
09:23:30 <CDB-PHONE> no balance sheet old or new has likely ever been correct on average cost in a multi currency book
09:23:38 <chris> well that's what I meant by "the reports' average cost gives spurious prices"
09:23:42 <CDB-PHONE> that involves stocks in a currency not your home currency
09:24:16 <CDB-PHONE> [09:15] (@chris) CDB: I'm sure you'll have noticed the reports' average-cost gives spurious prices... they're nowhere as sophisticated as you'll want -- ah okay, I thought you were referring to your adb tool
09:24:24 <CDB-PHONE> rather than referring to other reports
09:24:31 <CDB-PHONE> context!
09:24:36 <chris> :-/
09:25:11 <CDB-PHONE> perhaps we should rename it to "average cost tool" to use a more jurisdictional neutral term
09:25:11 <chris> my comment 3-4h ago referred to the ACB pricing engine being usable as a report price source
09:25:31 <chris> my comment 3-4h ago referred to the ACB pricing engine being usable as a report price source therefore all reports can now offer genuine average-cost
09:25:43 <CDB-PHONE> Hmm
09:25:51 <CDB-PHONE> okay, that may be a good idea
09:26:14 <CDB-PHONE> but I doubt that will balance, because price db not going to have enough price points
09:26:21 <CDB-PHONE> is my guess
09:27:11 <CDB-PHONE> you could try and see what happens, if it's an easy feed in
09:27:20 <chris> ^... no
09:27:37 <CDB-PHONE> didn't think so 😄
09:28:51 <CDB-PHONE> given that our balance sheet tool ignores other methods and defaults to average cost
09:29:12 <CDB-PHONE> for this reason it could be a good idea to codify average cost into the software
09:29:19 <chris> ... but it IS doable. first process stock, figure out its basis at all dates, *understand* its divi/capg/cash/fees splits, generate a price-vs-date list. then for any date point find the nearest on the list
09:29:21 <CDB-PHONE> so that it can be used by other reports
09:29:48 <CDB-PHONE> I just don't think the stock input tool should offer a cost basis calculation suggestion using average cost
09:30:07 <CDB-PHONE> since someone selling on FIFO is not going to appreciate it
09:30:52 <CDB-PHONE> rather, the stock input tool should over no suggested dollar values at all
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09:31:34 <CDB-PHONE> balance sheet and other reports using average cost tool is fine
09:31:51 <CDB-PHONE> just not sure that it will even balance until we have proper currency support
09:32:10 <CDB-PHONE> it might, I don't know
09:32:18 <chris> ok. if I were using stock features myself, I'd still wish for an estimate cost to help input capg splits. but agree it's a too specialised overengineering
09:32:20 <CDB-PHONE> but my hunch is it won't
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09:32:49 <CDB-PHONE> we don't want to mislead users with a suggested correct answer for cost
09:33:24 <CDB-PHONE> I am going to assume most regular users use the software for tax, rather than for actual GAAP financial statements
09:35:15 <CDB-PHONE> I will investigate the ROC and ND transactions further this weekend
09:35:28 <CDB-PHONE> and add a few more example to the Gnucash file
09:35:38 <chris> Ok
09:35:45 <CDB-PHONE> and maybe offer suggestions on what you should pattern match for
09:36:00 <CDB-PHONE> so that both examples can be covered
09:36:23 <chris> Re: auto-capgain My view was be that a naive stock user would input all data and forget the capg splits. BTC users are most likely to forget exactly how to calculate their capgains for example.
09:36:28 <CDB-PHONE> I think the current example for ROC suggests cash is mandatory, when it isn't necessarily so
09:37:17 <CDB-PHONE> and ND has way more degrees of freedom than my initial view of it assumed when I made the file... as shown by my own screenshot
09:37:41 <CDB-PHONE> re capg split: the capital gain itself doesn't need to be an input
09:37:44 <CDB-PHONE> only cost basis
09:37:54 <CDB-PHONE> we can calculate capital gain
09:38:46 <chris> ^ bring out the formulas.
09:39:12 <CDB-PHONE> from the 3 inputs of net cash received, commissions paid, and cost basis, you can compute with 100% certainty the gross proceeds and the gross capital gain
09:39:33 <CDB-PHONE> net cash received+ commissions paid = gross proceeds
09:39:47 <chris> I meant in XLS :)
09:40:02 <CDB-PHONE> gross proceeds - cost basis = net capital gain
09:40:08 <CDB-PHONE> it's already in there
09:40:34 <chris> ok
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09:40:43 <CDB-PHONE> the column that calculates gross gain can be used in your input tool
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09:41:02 <CDB-PHONE> to calculate the cap gain value rather than have it as an input
09:41:17 <CDB-PHONE> same with gross proceeds
09:41:43 <CDB-PHONE> the only "required" inputs are cash in hand, commissions paid, and cost basis
09:42:13 <CDB-PHONE> (for a sale transaction)
09:42:41 <chris> you must also have num units sold
09:43:00 <CDB-PHONE> sorry I meant required $ value inputs
09:43:07 <CDB-PHONE> yes you need # sold as well
09:43:38 <CDB-PHONE> what I mean is you don't need as an input the gross proceeds value or the gross capital gain value -- those can be computed
09:45:13 <chris> gtg now.
09:49:48 <chris> cash_in_hand + fees_paid = (cost-basis * #units_sold) + capgains_value
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11:13:30 <Gnucash> I'm still not sure if I am on the right platform to ask this question - but can someone give me some guidance. I am trying to find out if and when GnuCash will be compatible with Big Sur
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11:30:15 <mohave> Gnucash, I've had no problem running version 4.2 on Big Sur.
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11:33:48 <Gnucash> Thanks mohave. I have been unwilling to upgrade because I read in MacRumors that it didn't run. On the strength of your advice I will now upgrade. Many thanks.
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11:36:01 <mohave> Gnucash, it's always good to make a backup of your current system though prior to upgrade.
11:36:38 <Gnucash> I have a backup on my timecapsule - thanks for the advice.
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