2020-11-02 GnuCash IRC logs
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09:16:14 <mib_qjgfuo> Mal ganz blöd gefragt: Wie trage ich einen Zahlungseingang auf das Bankkonto in SKR03 manuell ein? Mir ist klar, dass im Soll die Gesamtsumme steht, aber wie unterteile ich den Gesamtbetrag in Erlöse 19% und Umsatzsteuer 19% ? Geht das nur über das Rechnung erstellen-Menü?
09:19:10 <mib_qjgfuo> Ok ich habs schon rausgefunden, trotzdem danke
09:24:40 <chris> jralls: the python datetime error seems to have stopped
09:25:57 <chris> gjanssens jralls warlord: have you read up on https://blog.travis-ci.com/2020-11-02-travis-ci-new-billing ?
09:30:52 <warlord> I have no idea what our current travis plan is.
09:34:24 <chris> probably OSS free version
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10:45:06 <warlord> I'm sure jralls and gjanssens will know for sure. Hopefully this won't significantly affect us. Worst case we could use tip-jar money for it.
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10:54:38 <chris> warlord: fell led me into an i18n rabbit hole and I'm not sure I want to hop in: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/806 >:(
10:55:49 <chris> it's easiest to stay in OSS land and pretend everyone is nice
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11:01:36 <mib_j7ovx9> Wenn ich eine Lieferantenrechnung habe trage ich den Rechnungsbetrag im Haben beim SKR03 Kontorahmen ein. Auf der Seite Soll steht dann die Abziehbare Vorsteuer 19%. Und was noch?
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11:02:16 <warlord> mib_j7ovx9, english?
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11:13:06 <mib_j7ovx9> warlord, I'd rather get an answer in German, because I need to know how the SKR03 account frame works.
11:14:52 <warlord> as this is an english channel, it helps to *start* in english. There is only 1 german-speaker here, who can respond when he can.
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11:58:14 <frakturfreak> mib_j7ovx9: Short answer: It depends.
11:59:59 <mib_j7ovx9> Aufwendungen = expenditure. But I miss an account for Goods (=Waren). Why is it not included?
12:00:17 <frakturfreak> You can download the full SKR03 from the DATEV everything should be described there
12:00:32 <frakturfreak> because Wareneingangs- und Bestandskonten are class 3
12:01:00 <frakturfreak> class 4 is other expenses, 3 is goods
12:02:48 <fell> The SKR03 in GnuCash is incomplete. Sombody had created the parts, he used and provided.
12:03:48 <fell> If one of you send me complements, I am happy to merge them.
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12:05:51 <frakturfreak> The small problem with the SKR03 is that it follows the Prozessgliederungsprinzip (So the way the money goes through the production process) That’s why class 2 is a bit of a mish-mash and class 3 includes income-statement and balance-sheet accounts. There is however the SKR04 which resembles the order in the HGB. However both SKR contain the same accounts and should be feature
12:05:53 <frakturfreak> equivalent. Every tax advisor should be able to work with both convert the data on import.
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12:06:48 <fell> See instructions in https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Account_Hierarchy_Template
12:07:22 <frakturfreak> Which would be done either way because gnucash doesn’t have vat keys like 8 and 9 for 7 % and 19 % …
12:09:09 <frakturfreak> If I would import data from gnucash into the accounting software we use at work, I’d get error messages that I’ve got VAT without matching income transactions, because it calculates and matches the VAT for each transaction.
12:09:50 <mib_j7ovx9> I read on the internet, that SKR03 is more common in use. I am only allowed to increase Wareneingangs- und Bestandskonten once the shipment arrives, isn't it?
12:10:14 <fell> It should be possible to e.g. create an additional account for 5% andreuse the old 16% account.
12:11:46 <fell> frakturfreak: If that is the problem, how about only adjust the assignment in the sales tax table?
12:12:00 <frakturfreak> you could but actualy since the account is officially called „zum ermäßigten Steuersatz“ there won’t be any account added
12:12:15 <fell> for the automatic calculation
12:12:16 <frakturfreak> you can always open your own account 3301 if you want to
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12:22:51 <mib_j7ovx9> Es wäre mir wirklich lieber man schreibt hier in Deutsch, für mich macht es die Sprache nur noch komplizierter.. Ich habe es bisher so aufgefasst, dass ich erst den Wareneingang 19% erhöhen darf, wenn die Waren bei mir eingetroffen sind. Verbindlichkeiten (119 €) an Vorsteuer 19% (19 €) an X (100€ ).. was ist X?
12:25:22 <frakturfreak> X = 3400 Wareneingang volle Vorsteuer
12:26:50 <frakturfreak> Du könntest es auch auf 3200 Wareneingang allgemein packen, nur dann wird die Umsatzsteuerverprobung etwas schwieriger.
12:29:39 <mib_j7ovx9> Also ist meine Annahme "Ich habe es bisher so aufgefasst, dass ich erst den Wareneingang 19% erhöhen darf, wenn die Waren bei mir eingetroffen sind. " falsch. Mich verwirrt auch warum es Wareneingang volle Vorsteuer heißt… Es ist doch dann netto verbucht, weil ich ja die Vorsteuer und den Wareneingang voneinander getrennt habe?
12:29:54 <fell> Du könntest dir ja 2 Unterkonten geordert und geliefert erstellen, aber das ist nicht Teil der externen Sicht.
12:33:27 <fell> Es gibt auch Wareneingang ermäßige Vorsteuer. Man muß ja hinterher noch kontrollieren können.
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12:40:43 <mib_j7ovx9> Nein, dann werd ich es so machen. Ich buch dann einfach auf "3400 Wareneingang volle Vorsteuer" wenn ich es noch nicht erhalten habe. Und das Konto "3300 Wareneingang 7%" oder "3349 ohne Vorsteuer" im Fall der Kleinunternehmerregelung leg ich dann einfach extra an. Sollte unbedingt auch in einem Update nachgereicht werden, finde ich.
12:41:51 <frakturfreak> mib_j7ovx9: Lies dir mal § 15 UStG genau durch, u. U. ist die Vorsteuer auch vor der Lieferung abziehbar.
12:42:19 <frakturfreak> entweder Rechnung + Leistung oder Rechnung + Zahlung
12:44:09 <frakturfreak> Außer im Falle, dass es sich um Sachen handelt, bei denen es Sachen rund um den Jahreswechsel sind, wird einfach mit Rechnungsdatum gebucht, egal ob du die Ware jetzt schon hast oder sie tatsächlich erst ein paar Tage später eintrifft.
12:45:18 <frakturfreak> korrekter wäre es, das Lieferdatum zu nehmen, denn von diesem Zeitpunkt an wird die Ware als verkauft angesehen, auch wenn die Spedition vielleicht noch ein paar Tage braucht.
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12:46:12 <frakturfreak> mib_j7ovx9: Bist du überhaupt buchführungspflichtig?
12:47:54 <mib_j7ovx9> Bin ich nicht. Mir war das schon klar, dass die Frage irgendwann aufkommen würde. Ich denke halt früher oder später müsste ich eh die Doppik machen, und GnuCash bietet sich halt für mich aufgrund der HBCI Schnittstelle sehr gut an, ich weiß auch dass die EÜR für den Moment ausreichend wäre.
12:54:27 <mib_j7ovx9> Ich habe auch nicht so viele Geschäftsabläufe. Zahlungseingänge von Kunden, Zahlungsausgänge an Lieferanten, Liefereingänge, Zahlungseingang bei PayPal und halt in jedem Fall ein Storno. Mir fehlt das bei GnuCash schon ein wenig, dass dokumentiert ist wie man so etwas bucht. Ich orientiere mich generell auch eher an YouTube Videos, nur wurde mir da z.B.
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12:56:55 <mib_j7ovx9> gesagt dass man auf 6080 Aufwendungen für Waren buchen muss. Während ich gestern gesagt bekommen habe, dass ich auf 3400 buchen kann. Was halt vielleicht auch sinnvoll wäre ist ein Forum oder dergleichen für GnuCash
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12:58:25 <mib_j7ovx9> den Punkt "entweder Rechnung + Leistung oder Rechnung + Zahlung" gebe ich ehrlich zu nicht verstanden zu haben
13:01:49 <mib_j7ovx9> So eine Anleitung wie buche im Fall "XYZ" Konto A an B an C, wäre schon gut
13:08:14 <jralls> chris, warlord, gjanssens: Unfortunately it's exactly the open source community that TravisCI has decided to charge, claiming some sort of unspecified abuse that ties up build queues.
13:11:25 <warlord> jralls, will it directly affect us?
13:16:37 <fell> mib_j7ovx9, im Grunde bist du der ideale Kandidat, um das mal im Wiki zu dokumentieren. Wir alten Hasen haben das Kapitel schon längst vergessen.
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13:22:40 <mib_j7ovx9> Ich würde gerne etwas zur Wiki beisteuern, ist halt nur die Frage, ob ich das auch so richtig mache, wie ich es denke. Ich schreib das gerne die nächsten Tage mal und droppe hier ein Pastebin, das man sich gerne angucken und korrigieren kann
13:23:15 <jralls> warlord, yes. We'll be converted to a trial account with 1000 minutes. Our builds take about 30 minutes, so we have about 30. Pricing is $15 for 2500 minutes or ~$0.18 per build.
13:24:12 <warlord> That that 1000 mins/month? Or 1000 mins total?
13:24:48 <jralls> Total. The blog post says that we can apply for an open-source allowance to keep getting free builds, but we need to figure out how much to ask for.
13:25:08 <warlord> Do we know how many builds we have/get?
13:25:37 <warlord> (I mean, how many builds are we making now)
13:29:09 <jralls> It depends on how many commits we make. We did 15 builds in the last week. https://travis-ci.org/github/Gnucash/gnucash/builds.
13:29:51 <jralls> Though 3 of them don't count because they got cancelled by a subsequent commit.
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13:34:37 <fell> mib_j7ovx9: Ein Wiki ist dafür da, daß viele schnell was ändern können. Beei den offiziellen Docs wäre das was anderes.
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13:35:23 <jralls> Hmm, now I'm confused: At the top it says "The pricing change will take effect on https://travis-ci.com." but as you see from that URI we're using travis-ci.org. Later on it says "Building on a public repositories only We love our OSS teams who choose to build using TravisCI and we fully want to support that community." and that's us.
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13:36:03 <jralls> "For those of you who have been building on public repositories (on travis-ci.com, with no paid subscription), we will upgrade you to our trial (free) plan with a 10K credit allotment (which allows around 1000 minutes in a Linux environment)."
13:36:43 <fell> Du kannst es ja erstmal auf deiner Benutzerseite erstellen und später verschieben wir es.
13:37:26 <fell> I did not understand thetravis announcement, too.
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14:18:43 <frakturfreak> mib_j7ovx9: § 15 (1) Nr. 1
14:19:05 <frakturfreak> mib_j7ovx9: UStG
14:20:15 <frakturfreak> S. 1 + 2 = Rechnung + Leistung, S. 3. Zahlung + Rechnung.
14:27:31 <frakturfreak> mib_j7ovx9: Es gibt kein Konto 6080 im SKR03.
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15:48:08 <jralls> chris, about the Python test, the USA changed back to standard time yesterday (Sunday). That would affect Travis but not your local build unless WA happened to go to summer time the same day.
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16:23:31 <fell> jralls, I just watched, the last windows build from 2020-10-28.
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16:24:35 <fell> Warlord, why do I have to generate a new password each time I need to log in ovirt?
16:31:37 <warlord> fell, no idea.
16:31:44 <warlord> I use the same password all the time.
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16:32:38 <fell> I got a message, that it expired.
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16:33:49 <warlord> Huh...
16:34:12 <warlord> I can look into that. When I set the password initially it was a single-use, but when you change it, it should last.
16:34:17 <warlord> I'll look into it.
16:34:39 <gaserre> Hi. Newbie developer Glenn Serre here (gaserre). I will likely be just lurking for a while.
16:34:44 <jralls> I think it expires every n months, but I don't know what n is.
16:35:03 <warlord> gaserre, welcome!
16:37:04 <fell> Now I get account deactivated …
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16:38:51 <fell> welcome, gaserre!
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16:43:04 <jralls> fell, I'm now in the build vm. It looks like the scheduled tasks have gotten lost.
16:43:58 <fell> Perhaps they should become part of the disk image?
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16:46:23 <warlord> fell, I have no idea why that happened.. I'll go check it out.
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16:47:37 <warlord> jralls, odd.. was it not saved? I'm surprised a power-outage-caused reboot would lose that?
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17:02:48 <jralls> warlord, no it was just hard to find. I think maybe it hadn't run because it's set to run only if the user (builder) is logged in. I tried to change that but it requires the user to have a password for that to work. I started it manually and we should check again tomorrow morning to make sure that it ran on schedule.
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17:05:08 <warlord> Oh, hmm, not sure why builder didn't get auto-logged-in..
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17:21:33 <chris> jralls: python datetime test failed for UTC=GMT-8 for a few days until yesterday. It never failed for my TZ.
17:21:55 <chris> fell: we cannot use ngettext at all for now :)
17:22:55 <fell> Why? I I was just teesting with de.po.
17:23:59 <chris> See inconsistencies with both C and guile's ngettext in #806
17:24:55 <jralls> I thought 806 was about exporting C's ngettext to guile and using that.
17:25:43 <chris> jralls: true. But to debug why it wasn't pluralizing "Exchange rate(s)" I tried guile's ngettext too, and both show invalid behaviour.
17:26:19 <chris> testing ngettext from guile commandline seems to work well
17:27:11 <jralls> From what you wrote on the PR both showed that you hadn't tested correctly. The translations aren't going to work until you msgmerge so that the msgid is setup correctly for ngettext.
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17:29:10 <chris> You mean even if I chose an already-translated string "Use Escrow Account" the test was not done correctly?
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17:32:36 <jralls> Yes, because it's got just a msgid in en_GB.po. It needs to have a msgid_plural in order for ngettext to work.
17:33:05 <fell> In which reports can I see it?
17:33:24 <chris> fell: try balance sheet when there's 1 or 2 foreign currencies
17:33:59 <chris> jralls: uh ok
17:34:16 <fell> I have 2 bonds and it writes "Wechselkurse" (pl)
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17:34:55 <chris> fell: you mean it works then?
17:35:17 <chris> gotta try with a book with 1 stock only
17:35:55 * fell is creating the book
17:41:10 <chris> or a simple book with 2 currencies: EUR vs GBP
17:42:25 <chris> jralls: on Hacker News https://mailchi.mp/3d439eeb1098/travis-ciorg-is-moving-to-travis-cicom
17:44:17 <fell> Wechselkurs
17:44:18 <fell> 1,00 £ 1,10924 €
17:45:36 <chris> now try with LANG=C and LANG=en_GB.utf8 :)
17:45:43 <chris> (after your msgmerge stuff)
17:46:26 <jralls> chris, Sigh. Another shoe dropping, and more conflicts. "Open-source projects will be free as they always have" but "We will be offering an allotment of OSS minutes that will be reviewed and allocated on a case by case basis.".
17:46:50 <jralls> Sounds to me like we have until the end of the year to migrate CI somewhere else.
17:47:18 <chris> sounds like it
17:47:32 <fell> LANG=C:
17:47:34 <fell> Exchange rates
17:47:35 <fell> €1.00 $0.0000
17:47:37 <fell> £1.00 $0.0000
17:48:58 <chris> fell: need to change report-currency to EUR
17:53:18 <chris> jralls gitlab is popular
17:53:36 <fell> LANG=en_GB.utf8:
17:53:37 <fell> Exchange rate
17:53:39 <fell> €1.00 £25000/27731
17:54:02 <chris> fell looks good then?
17:54:51 <fell> If you agree, I wil mere it together with de.po?
17:55:09 <fell> merge
17:55:20 <chris> go ahead
17:55:32 <chris> and en_GB.utf8 too if you don't mind
18:03:23 <fell> Chris, we can keep en_GB as overlay to en_US.
18:04:13 <fell> That means, you need only to update different writings like words with "…zation"
18:04:53 <fell> "…our", …
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18:17:39 <fell> chris, but I think we should add the number, in Slavian languages, you would get the singular for 11, 21, … FX rates.
18:19:12 <chris> as in "11 exchange rates"?
18:20:18 <fell> yes.
18:21:22 <chris> It'd be (format #f (NG_ "~a exchange rate" "~a exchange rates" entries) entries) isn't it rather ugly to say "1 exchange rate"? jralls
18:22:05 <fell> in hr: 11 Tečaj is right, like 10 Tečajevi
18:22:49 <fell> but a long list with Tečaj looks strange.
18:24:27 <jralls> chris, depends on context. IMO any number in a heading over a list would be strange. fell but does it look strange to a native speaker of whatever than language is?
18:28:43 <fell> hm, for a list without counter i would usually use plural
18:29:15 <chris> brb baby to park
18:30:45 <jralls> fell, so would I, even if there's only 1 entry.
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21:58:41 <chris> exchange rates were pluralized since 4e58a9a9
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