2020-08-09 GnuCash IRC logs
00:00:00 <CDB-Man> do you combine both realized and unrealized?
00:00:07 <CDB-Man> focus on unrealized only?
00:00:14 <CDB-Man> i would rather not print any rate of return at all
00:00:14 <chris> this is up to the accountant :)
00:00:49 <CDB-Man> the only thing i would print is total realized returns, and the current unrealized return, in absolute dollars
00:01:00 <CDB-Man> without any percentages printed, or any "rates" printed
00:22:49 <chris> well, keep the spreadsheets coming :)
00:55:02 <chris> jralls: a logic error: SCM id = scm_call_1 ...
00:55:21 <chris> the SCM object "id" will *never* be NULL; it may be SCM_BOOL_F
00:55:30 <chris> I'll fix it...
00:55:37 <chris> or SCM_EOL = '()
00:58:44 <chris> jralls: BTW if you prever C++ STL instead of GLib for navigating lists, a sample conversion would be nice e.g. how would Account.cpp's GetBalanceAsOfDate look like using std::list
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01:03:12 <chris> jralls: if C must write file instead of guile, there's another path that could benefit: the report export-code. guile has been in charge of opening output file since forever. It may be better to send the output TXF/CSV file back to C. This means gnc_plugin_page_report_export_cb must be modified.
01:03:28 <chris> jralls: if C must write file instead of guile, there's another path that could benefit: the report export-code. guile has been in charge of opening output file since forever. It may be better to send the output TXF/CSV *string back to C. This means gnc_plugin_page_report_export_cb must be modified.
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04:31:51 <giuseppef> good morning, can anyone help with this: https://bugs.gentoo.org/734286 ? The error is "In procedure module-lookup: Unbound variable: _" and it seems to arise only when "upgrading" from 4.0. Now I am making some tests
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04:37:35 <giuseppef> I can confirm that it doesn't build with 4.0 installed. Unmerging 4.0 and emerging 4.1 runs fine
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07:10:18 <chris> giuseppef: this has to do with guile-3. if 4.0 doesn't build it's because the gentoo user has guile-3 instead of guile-2.2
07:12:48 <giuseppef> hi chris, the 4.0 builds; the problem is to build 4.1 while 4.0 is installed. I succeded in emerging 4.1 after I unmerged completely 4.0
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07:56:39 <reactormonk> From yesterday, yup, you can download the csvs
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08:08:20 <reactormonk> What's the best way to categorize ~ 1.5k transactions? incrementally?
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08:20:05 <reactormonk> I've got two fields which kinda describe the target account - one for who the money goes to, another the description. I want the bayes to use both target and description to decide which account the money should be deposited to in gnucash. How would I facilitate that? Merge the two fields in a preprocessing step?
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09:41:22 <reactormonk> In general, there's two fields - recipient and description. How do y'all push that data into gnucash?
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10:13:03 <roxart> fell_laptop: frakturfreak ihr meint ich soll ein komplett neues file nehmen und dann anfangen mit euro kontos anlegen usw zum schauen was passiert? gibts für sowas so ein start sample file oder so?
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10:32:20 <finster> roxart: gnucash fragt dich beim öffnen einer leeren datei, welche konten der kontenhierarchie du anlegen willst. da sind bestimmte kontengruppen vordefiniert. falls du das mienst.
10:32:32 <finster> *meinst
10:33:11 <roxart> mein mehr mit ein paar testbuchungungen schon drinn
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10:51:25 <fell> Wüßte ich jetzt nicht. Das, was man untersuchen muß ist ja von Fall zu Fall verschieden.
11:00:58 <fell> Roxart, theoretisch könntest du du aus deiner echten Datei /einzelne/ Buchungen exportieren und in die Testdatei importieren, aber ich sehe da im moment keinen praktischen Nutzen drin.
11:12:15 <roxart> also einfach was leeres anlegen ein paar "normale" buchungen reinmachen und dannn mit einem euro konto testen meinst du?
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11:58:31 <fell> roxart, kannst du machen, aber "normale" Vorgänge brauchen wir eigentlich nichr. Die Frage ist ja, wo hakt es bei den CHF-EUR-CHF Buchungen.
12:08:20 <roxart> meinte mehr um irgendwas an zahlen zu haben
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12:11:50 <fell> Wenn da ein Bug ist, ist es hilfreich, eine einfache Beispieldatei in bugzilla zu laden und je weniger Rauschen da drin ist, umso besser.
12:13:53 <jralls> reactormonk: Import in small batches and set the "other" account in the import match window. After 3 or 4 it will be correctly assigning most of the transactions, substantially speeding up the job.
12:19:34 <reactormonk> jralls, it's kinda a combination of the two. Sometimes the transfer account is relevant (e.g. for dance classes), sometimes the description (e.g. paypal payments). Gnucash only has one field (the description). So I'm not sure what to mark the target account as in terms of fields, such that the bayes matches on it.
12:19:59 <jralls> chris, Since de/taxtxf.scm has been around for >10 years and nobody's complained about it mangling German I decided not to mess with it.
12:21:32 <jralls> reactormonk, the matcher looks at some other things besides the tokens in the description. Regardless, don't worry about it: Just select the correct other account for that particular transaction.
12:22:15 <reactormonk> What do I select as column header in the CSV then? "Transfer Account"?
12:23:18 <jralls> Ah, if you're supplying the transfer account then the matcher isn't used. You might as well import the whole thing at once.
12:25:42 <reactormonk> So I've got a SEPA transaction, which has a) date (easy to match) b) target account name (e.g. paypal) c) description (e.g. payment for buying at Zalando). d) amount (that one works). Now I have another transaction which is basically b) "Printshopt X" and c) Bestellung 123. So in the first case, I'd like to match on the description, on the second case, it should be on the target
12:25:44 <reactormonk> account name.
12:32:22 <jralls> Does column b ever contain the GnuCash transfer account name?
12:33:04 <reactormonk> Not directly, no. E.g. I'd store the printshop under "furniture".
12:33:35 <reactormonk> Can the importer merge two csv fields? I wouldn't mind just pasting them together.
12:34:03 <jralls> I don't think the importer can, but you can pretty easily with a shell or perl script.
12:34:06 <reactormonk> I can do it manually in the csvs, but with FinTS, that gets a bit annoying I'd guess.
12:34:24 <jralls> I was about to suggest doing that.
12:36:25 <jralls> Or you could load it into a spreadsheet program and create a new column that concatenates them with a space between and re-export to csv then use the new column as the new description.
12:37:09 <reactormonk> A bit of awk sounds like less work :D
12:39:03 <roxart> ok fell funktioniert dieser link: https://imgur.com/a/vS7q5Zh
12:39:21 <roxart> ich habe mal etwas getestet die screenshots sollten selbsterklärend sein sonst fragen
12:40:37 <jralls> reactormonk, awk will work too if you prefer it to perl... though I can't imagine why anyone would. ;-)
12:41:11 <reactormonk> jralls, been about 8 years since I wrote perl the last time.
12:41:19 <roxart> bei der letzten transaktion mit bezahlung ab dem eurokonto habe ich dann den kurs etwas erhöht im bezug auf als die euros "gekauft" wurden somit macht dieser gewinn da sinn nur verstehe ich nicht wieso das im richtigen file denn nicht mehr übereinstimmt in der ergebnisrechnung dann und auch muss ich den pujnkt "gewinne devisenhandel so in der bilanz drinn hab
12:41:22 <roxart> haben
12:43:14 <reactormonk> Is there a possibility to purge all transactions from an account? I could go edit the sql, but that doesn't sound like a good idea
12:44:17 <roxart> delete the account
12:44:31 <roxart> then it asks you what to do with the transactions
12:44:40 <reactormonk> I'd prefer not to, it's got some more metadata attached
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12:45:06 <jralls> That's the only way to bulk delete though.
12:47:11 <jralls> Mind, an account has at most 1/2 of its transactions. Other accounts have the other half, so deleting from SQL isn't as easy as it might seem.
12:47:43 <reactormonk> Ah, I was hoping the SQL stored transactions instead of per-account
12:48:46 <jralls> It stores the transaction header information in the transactions table and the splits in the split table. Each split record includes an account-guid field to link it to the account.
12:49:14 <reactormonk> Ok, so account deletion time.
12:49:52 <jralls> Do you have a database backup from before creating the transactions?
12:50:23 <reactormonk> The only thing worthy of saving is the bayes and the account names (and maybe the FinTS setup, but apparently I'll have to wrangle a pipe in there)
12:50:40 <jralls> For that matter, is it a fresh database with only those transactions? If so you could export the accounts and re-create an empty book from that.
12:51:19 <reactormonk> Yeah, fresh DB. Setting up my bookkeeping, starting from 0 with basically my transaction records. Hence the 1.5k transactions.
12:51:35 <jralls> The FinTS setup is separate except for the association between the online accounts and the GnuCash ones.
12:52:21 <jralls> Consider using the XML backend for the import experiments, then you can simply quit without saving to discard the import that wasn't quite right.
12:52:48 <jralls> Once you've got the import squared away you can save as the SQL backend of your choice.
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13:06:45 <fell> roxart, der Link funktioniert, mir fehlen aber ein paar Kontexte/Metainformationen. (Ich würde immer in mehrteiliger Buchungsansicht arbeiten).
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13:16:16 <fell> Es wäre für andere auch einfacher zu lesen, wenn du etwa 1 Vorgangsart/m + Berichte datiert auf Monatsende erstellt hättest. So ist das etwas verwirrend, z.B. Bank EUR erst mit vielen und anschließend mit einer bewegung.
13:17:54 <roxart> verstehe nicht ganz was du mit vielen und dann eine bewegung meinst?
13:18:47 <roxart> habe die "ausgeklappten" chf und eur konto screenshots noch angehängt
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13:21:39 <fell> " vielen und dann eine bewegung": Da htte ich mich wohl verklickt
13:22:51 <roxart> ja ich verstehe nicht was du damit meinst ich habe extra nur wenige transaktionen gemacht wie du gesagt hast wegen "noise"
13:23:20 <roxart> und beim aufwand buchen mit bezahlung vom eur konto kam dann gewinne devisenhandel wieder auf
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13:30:36 <fell> Wie sieht denn deie Kurstabelle aus? alles 2:1,9?
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13:35:47 <roxart> nein eben zum test beim letzten geändert, habe screenshot angefügt
13:36:02 <roxart> https://imgur.com/a/vS7q5Zh
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13:56:31 <fell> Am 9.10 entsteht ja auch ein Gewinn, da du 2200 CHF mit 2000€ bezahlst, die du zuvor für 2105,26 CHF erworben hast - sofern ich mich jetzt nicht verguckt oder verrechnet habe.
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14:02:00 <fell> Mit Taschenrechner bin ich jetzt auf Erweb für 2090 CHF gekommen, also 110 chf realisierter Gewinn
14:03:20 <roxart> ja und ich habe auf gewerteter durchschnitt macht schon sinn
14:04:41 <roxart> aber wieso dass dannn im richtigen file so komische sachen rauskommen macht keinen sinn
14:05:33 <roxart> und ich verstehe nicht wieso das separat in der bilanz ausgewiesen wird?
14:08:47 <reactormonk> Das Löschen von Transaktionen fühlt sich etwas n^2 an (?)
14:14:26 <roxart> Kann man irgendwie Wechselkurse auf ein bestimmtes Datum abrufen (mit dem Button kommt immer der aktuelle Tageskurs)
14:18:15 <fell> So richtig glücklich mit einer IFRS-Bilanz statt einer HGB-Bilanz bin ich auch nicht. siehe https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-de/2020-May/011614.html
14:18:41 <fell> Nicht Aus Gnucash heraus.
14:19:35 <roxart> wenn ich bei meiner richtigen datei zb das euro ertragskonto lösche und die buchungen in ein CHF ertragskonto buchen lasse
14:19:42 <roxart> dann bucht der die ja alle mit kurs 1 / 1
14:20:07 <fell> Im CPAN gibt es aber auch ein FQ-modul für historsiche Kurse, die sollte man dann als csv importieren können.
14:20:17 <roxart> zerschiesst aber die ganze bilanz aktiva / passiva nicht mehr gleich und das geht mir nicht in den kopf, an der bilanz sollte sich da doch nichts ändern...
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14:24:50 <fell> Da gibt es möglicherweise Interna zu beachten: Die buchung wird in der Währung des Kontos erstellt, von dem aus du sie startest. Das Ändern zweier gleich aussehenden Buchungen kann also zu ganz unterschiedlichen Ergebnissen führn.
14:28:50 <frakturfreak> fell: Um auf deine Mail einzugehen, ja an einigen Stellen hat der beizulegende Zeitwert (≈ fair value) schon im HGB Einzug gehalten, und auch IRFS Abschlüsse können bei börsennotierten oder Tochterunternehmen im Konzern akzeptiert werden, aber gerade im Blick vieler Unternehmen auf die eine möglichst gleichlaufende Steuer und Einheitsbilanz ist nunja. Wie soll ich es
14:28:52 <frakturfreak> ausdrücken. Die Bewertung von Fremdwährungsvaluta erfolgt zum Devisenkassamittelkurs ansonsten Nieders- und Imparitätsprinzip unter Beachtung von AK/HK. Zur Erreichung der Konformität müssten unter Umständen dann Unterkonten zur Korrektur eingesetzt werden.
14:29:31 <roxart> ok moment in der bilanz hatte ich das neue konto noch nicht eingeschlossen hm ok lets see
14:33:04 <roxart> ja der ertrag in bilanz und ergebnisrechnung stimmen einfach nicht überein wenn ich das da mache oh mann , muss ich jeztt echt alles manuel neu eingeben :/
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15:57:51 <fell> roxart, das tut mir leid. Vielleicht ist es einfacher, die entsprechenden Buchungen zu exportieren und die csv in der Tabellenkalkulation umzurechnen?
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16:04:23 <fell> Danke, Frakturfreak, meinst du, du könntest dazu im Wiki eine Seite erstellen, damit solche Probleme, wie roxart sie jetzt hat, reduziert werden können?
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16:33:47 <frakturfreak> bitte und das könnte ne weile dauern habe, meine Zeit ist gerade etwas verplant
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16:48:14 <fell> Besser spät asl nie. :-)
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17:22:05 <reactormonk> Huh, when I delete a full account, the transactions just end up in imbalance :-(
17:48:20 <warlord> reactormonk, yes.. You are deleting the account, not the transactions.
17:48:36 <warlord> And if you don't tell it to move them somewhere else, GnuCash will put them into Imbalance.
17:48:47 <reactormonk> time for some drop database then
17:53:25 <warlord> Was this from a bad import?
17:53:32 <reactormonk> Yup
17:53:33 <warlord> Yes, you could start over.
17:53:44 <warlord> Or revert to the latest checkpoint.
17:53:47 <warlord> (backup)
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19:24:45 <chris> jralls: agree taxtxf.scm hasn't caused issue. still if we want to harmonize html/txf/csv export, we can modify renderer to return xml instead of document. this *should* be free of side effects.
19:25:54 <chris> because when rendering & exporting the renderer is called twice - first for the document which is rendered as html, second to call the export-code. the latter path can return the exported document string instead.
19:26:13 <jralls> chris, OK. That would probably make sense. I suppose you'd do the same for us/taxtxf.scm and the csv for PNL-Balance Sheet.
19:27:00 <chris> of course - first change the reports, then change the C caller to write the file (for 5.0)
19:27:02 <jralls> BTW, I think it would be a nice enhancement to be able to export csv for any report that makes a table, charts in particular.
19:27:32 <chris> ^ I had that in mind too.
19:27:50 <jralls> Why would the C caller need to wait for 5.0? It should affect anything users see.
19:28:21 <chris> ^ because if someone has a custom taxtxf.scm then the export code would expect guile code to open&write file
19:29:31 <jralls> Ah, good point... Not that I think anyone would have a custom taxtxf. It's too painful.
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