2020-07-28 GnuCash IRC logs
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04:13:19 <sunyibo> I need this in CHF 'gnc-fq-dump -v yahoo_jsaon ufus.mu', but it gets returned in EUR. I can't find it from another source. What can I do?
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04:47:00 <testing_cheats_enabled_true> Hey, sorry for bothering you guys with this question. I'm trying to find a good program for my personal finances and I'd rather not keep it all in the cloud/externally saved. GNUCash looks like a strong program but I've also gotten responses that it's meant for business finance and that it would be unfit or overly complex for personal finances.
04:48:24 <testing_cheats_enabled_true> How much of this is true, according to your experiences?
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05:04:23 <sunyibo> I find it ok for personal finances
05:04:23 <Mechtilde> testing_cheats_enabled_true, this depends on your needs
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05:08:14 <Simon> sunyibo: stocks may only be quoted in their home currency... I think expecting a quote in another currency is meaningless
05:08:34 <Simon> sunyibo: if it's available in another currency it'll be listed on another exchange for that currency
05:09:13 <Simon> I think you really just need a CHF EUR quote so it can be accurately converted
05:21:17 <grepular> I created an "Assets:Reimbursable:EmployerName" - This is for when I pay for things out of pocket, which I later expect my employer to reimburse me for. Whilst populating it, I've noticed that one of the things I paid for was in a foreign currency, and the exchange rate that my employer used when paying me back, must have been slightly different to the one my credit card company used when taking the money from me. So my employer paid me
05:21:17 <grepular> back slightly more than I paid for the item. What is the best way to deal with this imbalance?
05:23:10 <Simon> record it as Income
05:23:33 <Simon> you may then technically owe tax on it... I'd ensure your employer doesn't do that in the future
05:24:15 <Simon> I typically quote the exact amount I paid in the currency I paid (which is also the one I get reimbursed in)
05:25:39 <Simon> alternatively if you think you can fix it on the next expenses claim you could let the Asset go negative
05:25:56 <Simon> (which you could also do retroactively)
05:30:31 <grepular> Ok, thanks for that
05:30:55 <grepular> I'll record it as income I think, and then do as you said for future claims
05:49:34 <chris> testing_cheats_enabled_true: there's no obligation to use business features. many have used it successfully for personal finances
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06:05:41 <chris> jralls: some hope https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2020-07/msg00134.html
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10:37:12 <mauritslamers> hey all, I have a question whether something I found is a feature or a bug...
10:39:06 <mauritslamers> I found the following: when I create a bill and put two lines where in both lines have 60 euro including taxes, the total amount is 120,01 and not 120,00
10:39:39 <mauritslamers> (VAT is 21%)
10:40:02 <warlord> mauritslamers, rounding error.
10:40:20 <warlord> Taxes are computed on the total, not per-line-item.
10:40:29 <warlord> .. and then rounded only at the end.
10:40:53 <chris> must be a bug imho
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10:40:56 <mauritslamers> I feel that is wrong...
10:41:14 <warlord> And others feel the other way is wrong. There is no "one right way".
10:41:17 <mauritslamers> taxes should be counted per item, otherwise I cannot have items on one bill with different rates
10:41:45 <chris> item=entry
10:41:45 <warlord> Sorry, what I mean is that the taxes are not ROUNDED per item.
10:42:05 <warlord> It computes the tax for each item, sums it up, and then rounds.
10:42:58 <warlord> This gets to be more of an issue when "tax included" is turned on.
10:44:25 <mauritslamers> exactly...
10:45:31 <mauritslamers> because I don't mind that kind of "errors" but when it is a bill the numbers are wrong...
10:45:38 <mauritslamers> I have to pay 120 euros not 120.01
10:45:57 <warlord> Then add an adjustment for 0.01
10:46:39 <mauritslamers> just curious: is this calculation done in floating point?
10:47:49 <warlord> No, it is rational
10:48:14 <warlord> Like the said, the issue is that the taxes are summed (in rational) and then rounded at the end.
10:48:19 <chris> mauritslamers: cannot reproduce your bug
10:48:21 <mauritslamers> cool... I now also found that the original bill I am trying to put in also contains a calculcation error
10:48:38 <chris> ah sorry i didn't read -- your 60 INCLUDES tax
10:48:43 <warlord> chris, right.
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10:49:02 * chris bows to warlord, yet AGAIN
10:49:13 <warlord> So it's 49.5867 / 10.4133 split
10:49:45 <warlord> Then you get 10.4133 + 10.4133 = 20.8266 = 20.83 --- and voila, you get the extra penny
10:50:14 <warlord> (I'm doing these calculations by hand to show you what's going on)
10:50:19 <mauritslamers> because it says that 49,59 x 2 = 99,17...
10:51:01 <chris> there must be some IFRS type ruling around
10:51:32 <warlord> The problem is that different people get affected by the rounding bug depending on where the rounding happens.
10:51:47 <mauritslamers> warlord: just curious.. wouldn't it make more sense to use a different calculation when the taxes are included?
10:52:00 <warlord> If you do it one way, one set of people are affected. If you do it a different way, a different set of people are affected. There is no "one way"
10:52:48 <mauritslamers> as in: take the total of that entry to be the the total as given instead of the sum of the amount without taxes + taxes?
10:53:47 <mauritslamers> I completely understand that it happens when the amount given is without taxes, and I am fine with it, but it is a bit weird when you give a total and it still doesn't take that total :)
10:54:26 <warlord> It does do a different calculation. Instead of item_subtotal = entry ; item_tax = entry * taxrate ---- the calculation is item_subtotal = entry/(1+taxrate) ; item_tax = entry - item_subtotal. Then all the item_subtotals and item_taxes are added together (by account bucket) and rounded.
10:55:26 <mauritslamers> clear :)
10:55:53 <warlord> The issue is that by the time the rounding happens, there is an extra penny in there due to all the partial-pennies in all the item_* entries.
10:55:58 <chris> warlord: I guessed those issues and ensured the rounding behaviour was maintained: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/a4811b3b46230e2bbc0cafda1eb93d5bd9225d9b#diff-fbc25361602a69e4fbe23425aef2ee7aR769
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10:57:49 <mauritslamers> another thing which I "complained" about before: is there a way to change the auto-fill data in more recent gnucash versions? I am currently on 3.8, and I recently changed my VAT category names to be easier visible when making entries. The auto-fill however insists on using the old names and prompts me every time to create the missing category...
10:59:38 <warlord> That.... seems weird. Have you restarted GnuCash? The auto-fill is loaded at runtime.
10:59:49 <warlord> But edits should affect it immediately, but there could be a bug in there.
11:01:33 <mauritslamers> warlord: what I found is that when changed it keeps working for that specific bill or invoice, but when going to the next invoice or bill the old data is restored
11:01:56 <mauritslamers> so for a new invoice I am again prompted
11:02:09 <warlord> That is.... odd.
11:02:18 <warlord> Like I said, did you try restarting GnuCash?
11:02:33 <mauritslamers> yes... many, many times
11:02:54 <mauritslamers> I changed those names half a year ago, still prompting every time
11:03:07 <warlord> jralls, any ideas?
11:06:36 <mauritslamers> I must admit that it is great that it prompts me, otherwise I might actually fill in the wrong category (outgoing vs incoming :) )
11:06:57 <mauritslamers> but it would be better if I didn't have to change it every time :)
11:08:09 <warlord> Is this a Vendor Bill or Customer Invoice?
11:08:29 <warlord> What is the account-type of the account in question that isn't in your list?
11:10:05 <mauritslamers> It happens on both
11:10:42 <mauritslamers> I created VAT categories, using the small business menu
11:11:38 <mauritslamers> So, I created a few different categories, for every vat level, and a tax rule to go with it.
11:12:11 <mauritslamers> I didn't change anything on the rule, I just changed the name.
11:13:52 <mauritslamers> the name of the tax tariff (I don't know exactly how it is called in english atm, I am using it in Dutch)
11:15:47 <mauritslamers> I changed the name because when editing a bill or invoice, I could not see the percentage I had in the name. If the name is rather long, and your screen is not too wide, the bill entry table has way too many columns for everything to be readable. It also doesn't save changes you make to the width.
11:16:07 <mauritslamers> *the width of the different columns
11:16:44 <mauritslamers> (please note: I really like GNUcash, it is just this interface issues that bother me once in a while :) )
11:17:10 <chris> you must have changed the name using the Tax Table Editor
11:17:17 <mauritslamers> yep
11:17:22 <mauritslamers> there is a button: rename
11:17:38 <chris> (that was *my* button)
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11:17:49 <chris> don't know where the old name is saved
11:17:54 <chris> maybe explore the raw XML
11:23:19 <chris> and file a bug so that someone can remember to fix later
11:34:51 <warlord> Yeah, I dont know why the old names would still be around, especially after a restart.
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12:16:33 <jralls> chris, looks like there's a downside to switching from jqplot to chartjs: https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797876
12:18:56 <grepular> I filled in my UK tax self assessment recently, and it said they owed me a small rebate. So I took it, and it went straight into my checking account. At the time I just added this to a "Income:Income Tax Rebate". This seems wrong to me now. It seems like I should mark it as a rebate on my "Expenses:Income Tax" account instead. However, my issue with this is that it will look like my income tax expenses for *this* tax year are lower, when
12:18:56 <grepular> in reality it was last years. The UK tax year runs April->April. What am I missing? If anything?
12:22:57 <Wilco> grepular: Normally you book those transactions to a date crossing account where there is a transaction in the booking date and a transaction for when you got it
12:23:09 <Wilco> grepular: kind of like accounts receivable and accounts payable do
12:24:36 <grepular> Ok. That sounds sensible. Thanks
12:31:48 <jralls> warlord, Are the tax tables saved by name or guid in the bill/invoice register? If they're saved by name then quickfill will retrieve the name that goes with the last bill/invoice with a matching description.
12:36:01 <jralls> chris: Re: Guile, that also confirms that they understand and accept that Guile is unusable on Windows with threading enabled (turning it off is what stopped the build-time hangs) and is 32-bit only. At some point Microsoft will realize, as Apple has done already, that 32-bit is obsolete and will disable it.
12:37:41 <warlord> jralls, I honestly don't recall.
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12:42:04 <mauritslamers> chris: will file a bug report
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18:09:28 <Simon> grepular: I put the outcome of those in on the 5th of april
18:10:13 <Simon> btw, if you want less painful accounting try not to collect underpaid tax or refund overpaid tax through your tax code
18:10:58 <Simon> you end up having to making a complicated split across multiple tax years
18:12:40 <Simon> regarding the different dates, the 5th of april one is a debt owed by HMRC and then the bank transaction pays that off
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