2020-06-26 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:32:33 <linas> my name in lights again, warlord and jralls .. let me know if you ned anything
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05:19:37 <gjanssens> .
05:19:37 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 9 hours and 50 minutes ago: <jralls> fell, warlord, I've got a draft of the 4.0 new features on https://www.gnucash.org/beta, stealing liberally from the main features page styling. I decided it's too big to just go on the main page, but maybe that's because I included too much.
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08:20:52 <gjanssens> fell: what's the current view on using ... (three individual dot characters) versus … (single character consisting of three dots) in translations ? For the Dutch translation I get lots of errors because the English uses the former and Dutch user the latter.
08:26:17 <gjanssens> Additionally I find the punctuation is very inconsistent. Strings can end in dots or not; others end either in ':' or ': ' (with a trailing space)
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08:51:30 <fell> gjanssens: I did not have helip ready before the string freeze. So it is still "...".
08:52:14 <fell> And yes, there are still dialogs without "..."
08:53:45 <fell> The colon is a separate issue. I thought, Bob had replaced them fro the GUI and cstim from the po's.
08:54:16 <fell> But obvisious some were not found.
08:56:24 <gjanssens> Ok
08:56:47 <gjanssens> So for now I have to replace all helipses with three dots for now.
08:57:38 <fell> Tooltips should be full sentences. (with full stop)
08:57:44 <gjanssens> Another question: I have found a series of arbitrary numbers to translate, like 6, 30, ...
08:58:14 <gjanssens> The come from the preferences. For most of them I don't see value in making them translatable (some explicitly are)
08:58:46 <gjanssens> For example, the default number of days to keep backup files. I don't think that's a localization thing, but a user preference.
08:59:20 <gjanssens> Or the bayesian threshold for considering a transaction match. No way a translator can make a sensible guess for his/her locale
08:59:33 <gjanssens> So I'm inclined to remove the translatable flag for those.
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09:09:03 <fell> Also interesting: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/744
09:09:07 <dean> hi guys. anyone experience super fast scrolling with touchpad? My browser scrolls at normal speed but GNUcash doesn't. I don't think it was there in 2.6version but is now there with v3.1(installed via flatpack)
09:13:07 <warlord> dean, yeah, I see it
09:13:12 <warlord> (3.7)
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09:15:53 <gjanssens> Hmm, fell: cstim's pull request is that a valid reason to break string freeze ?
09:16:52 <gjanssens> I would think it is. It doesn't make sense to deliberately keep broken translations, right ?
09:19:24 <fell> Yes, see his demo screenshot.
09:20:19 <fell> But I would prefer to use a similar context as we already use
09:21:40 <fell> I used e.g. "Column header for 'Reconciled'"
09:21:57 <gjanssens> What do you mean with that ? It looks like cstim's patch does the job well.
09:22:23 <fell> To nhave onky one grep expression.
09:22:40 <gjanssens> Oh. With all due respect, that may be a bit pedantic. :)
09:23:07 <fell> no pragmatic
09:23:27 <gjanssens> Whatever, but raising the bar for contribution
09:23:38 <fell> why?
09:24:23 <gjanssens> When I working translatable strings, I don't want to be searching for formal context formulations. I just want the context to be clear to the translator.
09:26:22 <gjanssens> Why would you want to grep on the context ?
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09:26:39 <gjanssens> I thought the translatable string is what mattered.
09:27:55 <fell> Before adding another header element, list existing header elements.
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09:32:55 <gjanssens> I see. Well, to pedantic for me :) You can just as well search for the exact string you plan on using and see if it's already used as header.
09:33:25 <gjanssens> And in this case I'm being pragmatic. I would like to merge cstim's PR
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09:34:11 <gjanssens> And don't want to delay it by asking him first to align with your preference. Nor do I want to spend time on adjusting it myself.
09:34:18 <gjanssens> I don't have enough free time for that.
09:36:20 <fell> I am adjusting ...
09:36:28 <gjanssens> Another topic: do we want smallest fractions to be translatable: 1, 1/10, 1/100,... ?
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09:36:47 <fell> No
09:37:27 <fell> Do you remember, how one can use indic or farsi diigits?
09:38:09 <fell> I believe it is using other parts of ITS.
09:39:14 <gjanssens> No idea unfortunately.
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10:02:07 <fell> gjanssens, PR 744 is up.
10:02:51 <gjanssens> thanks I'll pull it right away.
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12:00:51 <fell> gjanssens, the other direction: ' vs. ". See https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GUI_Guidelines#Quoting_in_Strings
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12:08:37 <gjanssens> Ok, fixed.
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12:25:44 <fell> you are always faster than me! :-)
12:35:21 <gjanssens> :)
12:35:42 <gjanssens> But not fast enough to finish the Dutch translation in time :(
12:36:19 <gjanssens> What I have pushed is all I can do before the release.
12:54:01 <gjanssens> jralls: I'm browsing your new feature list. I see you mention bugs in several locations. Do we want that for a feature gallery ?
13:05:06 <fell> each with a screenshot! ;-)
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13:21:45 <jralls_laptop> gjanssens, No, probably not. The more general question is are they even significant enough for the feature page?
13:21:56 <jralls_laptop> fell: Of the bug report? ;-)
13:24:41 <gjanssens> jralls_laptop: For some I had the same consideration (significance)
13:25:09 <jralls_laptop> gjanssens, fell, please don't msgmerge the updated gnucash.pot with cstim's changes onto any recent TP translations, it makes it harder to merge in the new translations they provide.
13:25:45 <gjanssens> I didn't plan to. I have only merged it with nl.po as I was working on that translation.
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13:26:06 <gjanssens> I did try to contact the last translator (Mark Haanen) but he didn't respond so far
13:26:27 <gjanssens> As the release is really eminent I took the liberty to make a few updates myself already.
13:27:40 <jralls_laptop> That's good, and for translators who work from our repo it's no problem. The TP ignores what we do with po files and work from their own repository so it just makes a mess when we msgmerge their stuff.
13:28:22 <jralls_laptop> For the few actually active translations, that is. Most of them haven't updated since 2.6 and some even longer than that.
13:28:34 <gjanssens> Will the TP get my translations after release ? I see nl.po is currently still marked as TP managed.
13:32:25 <jralls_laptop> Only if the translator explicitly retrieves it. You might email the leader of the Dutch team https://translationproject.org/team/nl.html.
13:33:42 <jralls_laptop> I see that Benno is the most active translator on that team, so he might know whether Mark Haanen is still active.
13:35:14 <gjanssens> Ok.
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13:39:45 <jralls_laptop> On the features page, which items do you think are too minor?
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13:43:51 <gjanssens> "The Customer, Vendor, and Employee overviews have a process-payment toolbar"
13:44:38 <gjanssens> I'm reconsidering.
13:45:01 <gjanssens> There's a blog on the kde aggregator that does weekly updates on kde activities.
13:45:15 <gjanssens> They do mention big and small improvements alike.
13:45:43 <gjanssens> So perhaps we should mention the smaller ones anyway.
13:46:01 <gjanssens> Do we have features that really stand out ? We could mention them first.
13:46:10 <jralls_laptop> Remember that there's still the release notes that are more comprehensive. I've already pared it down a bit from that.
13:47:42 <jralls_laptop> I think the most significant ones are the new transaction association dialog, the new search behavior in register's account picker, and gnucash-cli.
13:47:48 <gjanssens> Ok. This one seems minor to me as well: "The Accounts page has a new optional column for the hidden property to make it easier to toggle it. Note that in order to see hidden accounts you must still enable that in the Filter by... dialog."
13:48:33 <jralls_laptop> Yeah, and I'd add the three Budget items as well.
13:48:48 <gjanssens> Those sound about right as major features. I'd add the new business association feature as well
13:49:39 <jralls_laptop> As too minor? Hasn't that been requested rather a lot?
13:50:02 <gjanssens> No as major
13:50:13 <gjanssens> Exactly because it has been requested a lot
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13:51:37 <gjanssens> Perhaps reworking file associations can be taken as one topic, referring to the new dialog, the business associations and the emojis for presentation
13:53:14 <gjanssens> And add a full release notes link at the bottom.
13:53:15 <jralls_laptop> With a headline, putting it above the GUI one?
13:53:56 <jralls_laptop> That's for the associations not the release notes link.
13:53:57 <gjanssens> I was thinking of a headline along the lines of "Major highlights" ?
13:55:13 <jralls_laptop> OK, and bunch the associations items together in the list, or maybe with their own list in a div so that they flow around the dialog box?
13:55:28 <gjanssens> Yes
13:55:58 <jralls_laptop> OK, I'll have a go at that after I clear this morning's mail.
13:56:15 <gjanssens> And another bullet for the new search behaviour and one for gnucash-cli.
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13:56:32 <gjanssens> I think each of these major highlights deserves its own screenshot.
13:56:39 <gjanssens> You already have two
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13:59:05 <jralls_laptop> I think another won for the expanded import map editor dialog as well. By search behavior I guess you mean in the account picker. I'm at a loss for a good way to illustrate that.
14:00:05 <jralls_laptop> Maybe a fragment showing a string and the resulting filtered list?
14:00:42 <jralls_laptop> Huh. Dunno how "one" turned into "won".
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14:12:55 <gjanssens> jralls_afk: new search behaviour is probably best illustrated with a screen recording. But that may be too much work. So your suggestion will work as well.
14:13:16 <gjanssens> And agree on expanded import map
14:18:06 <jralls_laptop> Hmm, I don't know offhand how to embed a video in a webpage.
14:22:37 <gjanssens> https://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_video.asp
14:22:45 <gjanssens> Not too difficult really
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14:23:44 <gjanssens> Actually capturing the screencase may be more difficult. I don't know of you have tools for that on MacOS.
14:23:52 <gjanssens> And even on linux I'd have to investigate
14:24:01 <gjanssens> I have only don' it once a long time ago
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14:24:42 <jralls> That sort of thing is built in to MacOS.
14:24:56 <gjanssens> Cool :)
14:25:16 <gjanssens> Doesn't mean I would know where to look...
14:26:59 <jralls> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208721
14:28:26 <gjanssens> Nice!
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15:37:51 <jralls> gjasnssens, on business associations the commit message just said invoices. Does it apply to bills and vouchers too?
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15:47:29 <fell> Last activity by Mark on gnucash-nl was in september.
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15:53:32 <jralls> oops, gjanssens ^^^
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16:43:10 <gjanssens> jralls: yes. 'invoices' is an internal term for all three types. 4 actually, there's credit notes as well.
16:43:36 <jralls> OK, good. I rewrote the item that way.
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16:44:16 <jralls> The movie isn't working out. Or rather it is, but not on Linux where I'm having trouble getting it into a free codec format that Firefox will display.
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16:57:43 <jralls> Got it. I needed webm and it took a few tries to get there.
17:03:09 <jralls> gjanssens, Ready for you to re-review.
17:04:17 <jralls> Mrmmph. The divs don't work to align the images and text.
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18:16:23 <jralls> gjanssens, I just back-checked the import map editor and the Online Accounts button has been there since 3.0, so I'm going to remove that image and demote the invalid mapping dialog item (it *is* new) to Importing Transactions.
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18:43:36 <jralls> @tell gjanssens I just back-checked the import map editor and the Online Accounts button has been there since 3.0, so I'm going to remove that image and demote the invalid mapping dialog item (it *is* new) to Importing Transactions.
18:43:36 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
18:45:39 <jralls> @tell gjanssens Also the link to the release notes doesn't work very well so I removed it again. There aren't any anchors in news.phtml and linking directly to a .news presents it with no styling.
18:45:39 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
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19:06:18 <fell> Is the terminal screenshot too aggressive cut?
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19:38:47 <chris> for new features: report charts now use chartJS with interactivity; click to dive into data
19:38:55 <jralls> fell, I just want to convey the idea of a terminal interaction, not show details.
19:39:24 <jralls> Chris, can you explain that a bit more? What exactly happens when you click?
19:40:06 <chris> jralls: click barchart/linechart/pie: pops up "Load" box which changes current report to dive into data
19:40:23 <chris> behaviour varies according to report types
19:41:37 <chris> Also: Customer/Employee/Vendor/Job Report now has interactivity when "Display/Links" is set to 'detailed'. click invoice posting to highlight its associated payments, and vice versa.
19:43:08 <chris> (wrt chart interactivity- was not my invention -- was present > 10yrs ago but disabled when goffice/guppi were removed for jqplot -- I merely resurrected them)
19:45:25 <jralls> chris, I tried an asset pie chart in both Windows and MacOS. Clicking in the the circle does nothing, though hovering displays a box with exactly the same information as in the legend on the right.
19:46:12 <chris> jralls: funny... should pop "Load" button which opens up the asset register for the highlighted pie slice
19:47:34 <chris> gtg soon
19:56:53 <jralls> chris, that works in Linux. It probably requires newer webkit than is available on Mac and Win.
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