2020-05-17 GnuCash IRC logs
00:04:36 <chris> he's not really interested in helping out: https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2019-January/043152.html
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00:28:26 <CDB-Man_> hmmm, with the new nightly build
00:28:34 <CDB-Man_> i can't delete accounts from a split in my transaction...
00:28:45 <CDB-Man_> like I select the account and try to backspace, and nothing happens....
00:29:42 <CDB-Man_> I have to right click and delete split
00:29:45 <CDB-Man_> did something change?
00:30:48 <fell> I never knew about deleting a split by backspace.
00:31:06 <fell> Is it somewhere documented?
00:31:24 <CDB-Man_> well fell, what i've done for the longest time is this
00:32:08 <CDB-Man_> 1. select the sploit description and delete it with backspaces
00:32:08 <CDB-Man_> 2. tab over to the split account and delete it with backspaces
00:32:09 <CDB-Man_> 3. tab over to the debit/credit amount and delete it with backspaces
00:32:09 <CDB-Man_> 4. tab to the next row, and the split is now gone
00:32:17 <CDB-Man_> step #2 no longer works
00:33:09 <fell> Ah, I use [DEL] there.
00:33:22 <CDB-Man_> [DEL] also not working
00:33:44 <CDB-Man_> also, in the account column, I used to be able to type the first few letters of the account name, and when the suggestion appears in the dropdown, hit tab to auto complete. now that is broken
00:33:57 <CDB-Man_> it's asking to create a new account of the partialy typed in text... instead of auto completing
00:34:12 <CDB-Man_> something definitely changed
00:34:43 <CDB-Man_> need to revert back to gnucash 3.10 stable..... this is quite annoying
00:35:06 <CDB-Man_> This was tested on Version: 3.902
00:35:06 <CDB-Man_> Build ID: git 3.902-126-g5b597dfea+(2020-05-16)
00:35:12 <CDB-Man_> shall I file a bug report?
00:38:08 <fell> No Problem with Build ID: git 3.10-72-g659f785cb+(2020-05-15)
00:38:27 <CDB-Man_> hmm, i cant even DEL the numbers wither (step 3)
00:38:36 <CDB-Man_> that's the one on Maint?
00:38:59 <fell> yes, so you could bisect master.
00:39:01 <chris> CDB-Man: go ahead. jean_laroche did some work there.
00:39:23 <CDB-Man_> (Btw, what is the difference between Maint and Master anyways? I usually download maint, only downloaded master since chris pointed there for the report bug)
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00:39:56 <chris> maint=upcoming 3.11, master=upcoming 4.x with backward-incompatible changes.
00:39:56 <fell> Maint will become 3.11, master 4.0
00:40:20 <CDB-Man_> Ooh, exciting
00:40:43 <chris> you've uncovered a valid bug...<BS> doesnt work as expected
00:41:10 <chris> maint will be for final 3.x release, and no new features allowed there
00:41:35 <CDB-Man_> Chris, what do you mean by the balaance sheet not working?
00:41:48 <CDB-Man_> I'm looking at register here, or am I missing a step in your thought process
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00:42:53 <chris> <BS>=backspace
00:43:30 <CDB-Man_> ah. well DEL also does not work either
00:44:01 <CDB-Man_> tab auto-complete on account name also does not work (can you replaciate?)
00:47:19 <chris> these are valid issues. make a list and post a bug, and cc jean_laroche
00:47:47 <CDB-Man_> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797760
00:47:57 <CDB-Man_> submitted, trying to figure out how to add a CC
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00:48:27 <chris> he's mainly added full-text-search, so, to reach Income:Salary:Employer you can type Empl
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00:48:53 <chris> lots of rough edges
00:49:12 <CDB-Man_> right then, so it modifies that behaviour. when i tab complete, it gives a propmpt to create an account called "Empl" if i were to use your example
00:49:21 <CDB-Man_> instead of completing the suggested highlighted item
00:49:31 <CDB-Man_> okay, found were to add cc, but I think i need a full email
00:50:52 <CDB-Man_> there's a bunch of jeans, but not larouche on bugzilla
00:51:16 <CDB-Man_> is he perhaps not on bugzilla?
00:52:01 <chris> i've already added
00:52:12 <CDB-Man_> (Y)
00:53:36 <CDB-Man_> i wil revert back to maint then for now~~
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06:44:13 <fell> chris: https://code.gnucash.org/builds/win32/build-logs/maint/2020-05/build-maint-2020-05-17-03-01-03.log shows probably places, which you could optimize.
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10:39:12 <chris> my next project: from cmdline, run a report :)
10:45:07 <chris> $gnucash datafile.gnucash --run-report="My Annual Report" > report.html
10:45:12 <chris> looks good?
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11:46:19 <chris> jralls check https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2020-05/msg00060.html in 15mins or so... running guile single-threaded
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12:40:54 <jralls> chris, Why in 15 min? The last on the thread was 5 minutes before you posted. Anyway, building both bdw-gc and guile with --with-threads=no is exactly what I did.
12:42:19 <jralls> chris, and hearteningly both maint and master completed without hanging. If that keeps up for a week I'll declare victory.
12:45:14 <jralls> chris: re --run-report, the options go before the filename. I think it would be better to have an --outfile option with a default (~/gnucash-report.html?) instead of writing to stdout.
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12:52:39 <jralls> chris, re the taxtxf thread, Alex ended with "please feel free to ask me any questions you want and I will be happy to work with you on it." That doesn't sound like he's not interested in helping out.
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13:18:12 <yves> Hi! I may have hit a bug on Gnucash… not sure. I have an account that was last reconciled at +12,088.97, on 2019-05-23, with the _last_ record marked as `y` being a −5000 on 2019-05-21. Since then, there have been only 2 records: −4000 on 2019-09-17, and +92.85 on 2019-12-31. The ledger correctly displays the final balance at +8,181.82, and that value is also correctly suggested when I start a new
13:18:18 <yves> reconcilation. But then, the dialog shows a “Reconciled balance” of €13,181.82, thus a _difference_ of −5000! I don’t understand…
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13:37:09 <jralls> yves, sounds like you have GnuCash 3.9 and want 3.10.
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14:11:34 <yves> jralls: You’re right! I suppose it is a known bug, then. Being behind upstream is a rare occurrence in Archlinux :-D
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14:12:04 <jralls> yves, especially that far behind.
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17:27:12 <CDB-Man_> Hmm, is it possible to run a report that translates FX using the fx rates in effect at transaction date?
17:27:14 <CDB-Man_> example:
17:29:40 <CDB-Man_> I have an expense transaction where 90 JPY = $1.00 at transaction date of 2019-09-30, so it prints $1.00 on the income statement. at year-end 2019-12-31 the FX rate is now 95 JPY = 1.00 CAD so it prints $0.95 for that expense item
17:30:19 <CDB-Man_> i dont think the current report options will let me print $1.00, and the only way to do this would be to store the transaction in a CAD account instead of a JPY account
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18:07:27 <CDB-Man_> okay, so the solution is to have 2 expense accounts: a CAD denominated one, and a JPY denominated one. charge the CAD one when the expense was paid with CAD dollars. charge the JPY one when the expense is paid with Yen. it does not matter what the expense invoice was issued in, it matters what currency was used to pay said invoice
18:07:33 <CDB-Man_> and the correct behaviour is obtained
18:08:24 <jralls> CDB-Man Did you try setting the price source to "average cost"?
18:08:46 <CDB-Man_> yes. that does not work as it will dilute that transsaction with other prior transactions
18:09:08 <CDB-Man_> I have all 20 transactions calculated in Excel, and the report does not generate the same as my excel
18:09:28 <CDB-Man_> in gnucash, all 20 transactions have an Fx rate set per-transaction, in agreement with my excel
18:09:42 <jralls> Ah, so this is a transaction report rather than an aggregate one.
18:09:46 <CDB-Man_> and therefore all 20 manually set fx rates also show up in the price DB as user entered rates
18:10:04 <CDB-Man_> This is the Income Statement report
18:10:40 <jralls> That would normally not show individual transactions.
18:10:59 <CDB-Man_> right, I'm coming the total expense per income statement, to total expernse per me in Excel
18:11:10 <CDB-Man_> they disagree
18:12:40 <CDB-Man_> 1. in Excel, I manually convert each of the 20 transactions to CAD using the relevant FX rates
18:12:41 <CDB-Man_> 2. In gnucash, I've entered all 20 transactions, and set the CAD JPY exchange rates the same as in my excel
18:12:41 <CDB-Man_> 3. Run the income statement report in CAD, and the total expense in CAD does not agree to the total expense in CAD per Excel, using all 4 currency options in the I/S report options
18:13:27 <CDB-Man_> DR: Expense account (JPY)
18:13:27 <CDB-Man_> CR: Cash account (CAD)
18:14:03 <jralls> In step 2 are you recording the expense amount in JPY and the value in CAD using the Transfer Dialog exchange rate section?
18:14:19 <CDB-Man_> yes
18:15:53 <CDB-Man_> DR: Expense 90 JPY
18:15:53 <CDB-Man_> CR: Cash 1 CAD
18:15:53 <CDB-Man_> DR: Trading:Currency:JPY 90 JPY
18:15:53 <CDB-Man_> CR: Trading:Currency:CAD 1 CAD
18:15:53 <CDB-Man_> .
18:15:55 <CDB-Man_> do this 20 more times. I expect the income sttement to produce i.e. $1 CAD for this transaction, but it doesn't. total per gnucash mismatches Excel
18:16:21 <CDB-Man_> Err, reverse the DR and CR for the currency account
18:17:00 <CDB-Man_> each instance, when you tab complete the entry, it will prompt you for the currency dialog, so I know with certainty I've coded the Fx rate I want
18:17:35 <CDB-Man_> I always code using the 2nd option, the one that allowes you to enter the exact debit / credit amount, so it ties exactly to what I want
18:18:29 <jralls> An Income Statement doesn't display individual transactions, and besides you shouldn't edit the trading accounts yourself. Leave that to the transaction balancing code.
18:19:03 <CDB-Man_> Yes I know, the currency accounts auto complete. I'm just providing them here for clarity
18:19:20 <CDB-Man_> and yes, I know the I/S doesn't provide individual transactions, but that's not the pouint.....
18:19:38 <CDB-Man_> the point is the aggregatre total at year-end per I/S mismatches my Excel's aggregate total
18:20:09 <jralls> OK. That doesn't mean that GnuCash is wrong.
18:20:58 <jralls> When using the average-cost price source, what is the aggregate price difference?
18:22:04 <CDB-Man_> For this particular line item, I calculate $29.53 CAD vs GNU's $28.93 CAD using the average cost, with 20 or so transactions contained
18:22:05 <jralls> I.e. the difference between the ratio of the expense amounts in JPY/values in CAD.
18:22:27 <CDB-Man_> ~2%
18:22:46 <jralls> For how many JPY?
18:23:07 <CDB-Man_> 2,420 JPY
18:25:35 <jralls> And the sum of the transaction amounts in your GnuCash cash account is C$29.53?
18:26:24 <CDB-Man_> Yep. 2,420 JPY on one side, C$29.53 on the other side
18:30:02 <CDB-Man_> I have other JPY transactions elsewhere in the income statement in other accounts... If the average cost method does not calculate on a per line item basis of the income statement
18:30:03 <jralls> Are there other JPY-CAD transactions during the time period of the report? It's been a while since I worked on the average-cost calc and I don't remember if it looks at the whole book.
18:31:11 <CDB-Man_> Yep. There are other CAD denominated expense accounts (DR) that are paid in JPY cash (CR JPY cash account)
18:31:35 <CDB-Man_> Since they are recorded in CAD, the report of course outputs the correct total
18:32:16 <jralls> If both splits are JPY then there's no rate.
18:32:54 <jralls> And the CAD value of the JPY you spent is what you got when you used the ATM.
18:33:34 <CDB-Man_> I have no transactions that are dual JPY split
18:34:10 <CDB-Man_> I have DR CAD expense CR JPY cash transactions. And I have DR JPY expense CR CAD cash transactions
18:34:17 <jralls> Oh, I didn't read that right. You used JPY in a Canadian store?
18:35:32 <CDB-Man_> I used JPY cash to pay for airfare, which is a CAD expense account since 99% of the airfare is typically in CAD
18:35:50 <CDB-Man_> The exchange rate is recorded at the actual cash rate I paid
18:36:04 <jralls> That seems unlikely unless you fly only Air Canada.
18:36:25 <CDB-Man_> I typically fly only Air Canada, yes
18:37:08 <CDB-Man_> There are other CAD expenses I paid with JPY as well, but again, that is not at issue. Since the expense account is in CAD, the income statement total is correct
18:37:21 <CDB-Man_> There is no conversion being done at report generation
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18:38:04 <CDB-Man_> Of this affects the JPY denominated expense account that is also on the income statement, well that's another issue and probably what is causing my unexpected result
18:41:18 <jralls> I agree that average cost isn't going to help you here, because it operates over the whole book for the period of the report. Nearest in time would, I expect, be closest, but if you have more than one JPY<->CAD transaction in one day that will introduce errors too.
18:41:52 <CDB-Man_> Nearest in time would only work if I run the report as of that date
18:42:15 <CDB-Man_> It wouldn't work if for example my transactions were in February, but my report is December year end
18:42:32 <jralls> Hmm, I think that's right. It's intended for the time-series reports.
18:42:39 <CDB-Man_> Per the tooltip, nearest in time is "nearest to report date" and not "nearest to transaction date"
18:43:36 <jralls> Sort of. The time series reports (net worth barchart etc.) run the calculations once for each bar and apply the nearest in time price to the date for that bar.
18:43:51 <CDB-Man_> Interesting, well that makes sense
18:44:10 <jralls> But you're right that there isn't a lookup for each transaction.
18:44:16 <CDB-Man_> In any case, I think my solution is to create an expense account for each payment currency, regardless of invoice currency
18:44:50 <CDB-Man_> So that if I pay a JPY expense with CAD, recording it into a CAD expense account will ensure the proper fx
18:46:30 <jralls> Yes, that would be a better model. After all from your pov you paid x.xx CAD, not what the payee ended up with in JPY.
18:46:58 <CDB-Man_> Likewise when I pay a CAD expense with JPY, record it into a JPY expense account
18:48:35 <jralls> Again the same from a modelling viewpoint, but you still have the issue of wanting the CAD amount on your Income Statement.
18:48:55 <jralls> brb
18:49:59 <CDB-Man_> Yep. Despite the invoice being in CAD, the true cost to me is what it cost to purchase the JPY in year's past
18:50:04 <CDB-Man_> I'll have to think about that
18:51:50 <jralls> Regardless I don't think GnuCash
18:52:25 <jralls> sigh Gnucash's reports are granular enough to get you the right answer.
18:53:54 <CDB-Man_> We will see! I can be quite creative in trying to make GNUCash conform with GAAP
18:54:29 <CDB-Man_> It helps that during the audits of my clients (I'm a CPA), I've seen a lot of creative accounting)
19:00:41 <jralls> "Creative accounting" isn't usually considered a Good Thing.
19:01:15 <CDB-Man_> :)
19:03:26 <CDB-Man_> As with anything, it depends on context. Disguising expenses or inflating revenues? Not good. Getting around software limitations so that the outputs conform to GAAP without a system upgrade? Useful
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20:10:15 <chris> CDB-Man: only Transaction Report has granular price-conversion to transaction-date
20:10:40 <chris> nice that a CPA takes an active interest in gnc bugfixes :)
20:10:47 <chris> please file plenty of bugs
20:11:16 <CDB-Man_> Yeah, I figured. though given the massive char tof accounts I run (450 and counting...) I can't afford to have to look at transaction level reports
20:11:37 <CDB-Man_> need to know i can rely on the top level ones, so if I need to change the booking process, that's better (which is exactly what I did)
20:11:52 <CDB-Man_> yeah, I've been doing "CDB Inc" statements since 2015!
20:12:09 <CDB-Man_> I'm fairly compliant to IFRS, or as close as is practicable
20:14:20 <chris> on that note, gtg
20:19:09 <chris> btw CDB-Man: feel free to explain to us the IFRS/GAAP in bug fixes
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20:21:56 <CDB-Man_> happy to do so where relevant... as long as someone sees value in the soliloquy
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