2020-04-24 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:08:19 <lmat> jralls: Thank you!
05:09:56 <warlord> .
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05:56:39 <chris> warlord: it would be nice to call up the first devs if they have archives of mailing list before 2000
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06:02:40 <warlord> chris, my personal archives go back to Sept 1999
06:05:00 <warlord> Official archives go back about as long.
06:05:23 <chris> ah https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/ doesn't have all
06:38:14 * chris getting fewer compile errors on first run in C... :-o
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09:07:25 <warlord> chris, what do you mean? What I see at that URL is the history I saw on code.
09:07:29 <warlord> ... going back to 2000
09:07:35 <warlord> (technically 98)
09:07:55 <warlord> Keep in mind that when I signed up in 1999 the lists were using majordomo, not mailman.
09:09:18 <warlord> The transition to mailman happened in July 2000, which is approximately where the current history starts.
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12:10:12 <chris> https://blog.danslimmon.com/2019/08/02/stop-apologizing-for-bugs/
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13:09:42 <jralls> chris, I like the idea of putting the PR links on the merge commits too, but I don't think commenting on the merge commits on Github quite does the trick.
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13:21:57 <mykeylynx> Helloo, Trying to figure out how to remove and archive 2017 2018. I export empty accounts open it and try to import from csv but it keeps crashing out
13:29:54 <jralls> mykeylynx: Crashing as in GnuCash quits?
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13:30:43 <jralls> chris, have you already removed all of the 3.x deprecated functions from master?
13:30:53 <mykeylynx> yes quits
13:31:06 <mykeylynx> im on osx
13:31:50 <mykeylynx> Build ID: 3.10+(2020-04-11
13:36:20 <mykeylynx> downloading the lastest build now
13:36:22 <jralls> File a bug report (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Bugzilla) and attach the crash report from Console.app.
13:36:58 <jralls> That *is* the latest for MacOS, there aren't any nightlies.
13:37:14 <mykeylynx> thank you
13:38:16 <mykeylynx> when mapping fields from csv from an export from GnuCash it quits.
13:39:07 <jralls> Huh, I thought that had been fixed.
13:41:13 <mykeylynx> trying again. for transactionID i leave it blank?
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13:43:50 <jralls> Wait, are you having trouble importing the accounts or the transactions?
13:44:08 <mykeylynx> its one big list
13:44:14 <mykeylynx> the transactions
13:44:39 <jralls> So the accounts imported OK and the CoA matches between the two?
13:45:24 <mykeylynx> first File>export>Export Accounts
13:45:26 <mykeylynx> good
13:45:49 <mykeylynx> then File>export transactions to csv
13:46:07 <mykeylynx> now I am trying to import the transacts to the accouts
13:46:23 <jralls> What about importing the accounts?
13:47:32 <mykeylynx> the accounts I dont understand
13:47:33 <jralls> Oh, never mind, export creates an empty book with the accounts. So you opened that and are trying to import the transactions into it.
13:47:39 <mykeylynx> yes yes
13:47:44 <mykeylynx> yes
13:48:05 <jralls> Do you have transactions with more than two commodities?
13:48:27 <mykeylynx> no should be just USD
13:48:43 <jralls> No stocks or mutual funds?
13:50:00 <mykeylynx> looking through the csv I see Transaction Commodity column has some empy rows
13:50:52 <jralls> That might be the problem. File the bug report and gjanssens and I can look at it.
13:51:12 <mykeylynx> accually there is missing transactions from the csv im skrolling through and see it gets cut of in october. i exported from january. strange
13:51:21 <mykeylynx> Thank you
13:56:33 <mykeylynx> how to remove previous years and make an adjustment with out going in to every account is it possible?
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14:06:29 <jralls> mykeylynx: Not from inside GnuCash. But it occurs to me that what you really want to do is run a balance sheet report for the end of the previous accounting year and create an opening balance for the start of the current year.
14:06:57 <jralls> If you've already made transactions in the current year those would be the only ones to export/import.
14:07:09 <mykeylynx> and I guess just hold on to a csv of all the transaction right?
14:09:16 <jralls> If you want, but the previous year's transactions will be in the old file.
14:09:48 <mykeylynx> So when I create the balance sheet it has the transaction somewhere?
14:10:25 <jralls> No, just the balances obviously.
14:11:18 <mykeylynx> previous year's transactions will be in the old file. how do I get those transactions in an old file sorry
14:11:36 <jralls> One of us is unclear on what you want to do. I understood you to mean that you want to create a separate file for each year's books.
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14:12:06 <mykeylynx> yes but would like to look through the transaction if needed
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15:02:45 <jralls> mykeylynx, sorry, I had an online meeting to attend to.
15:03:23 <jralls> mykeylynx, If you want to keep the transactions why not just make a backup copy of the file at the end of each year and archive it?
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15:12:10 <gjanssens> jralls: I'm currently working on dropping use of gnc-module for all but the optional modules (aqbanking, ofx-import and python)
15:12:14 <mykeylynx> will do Thank you
15:12:26 <mykeylynx> can you helpme with mapping please
15:12:42 <gjanssens> While doing so I have found that many modules have a test for linking against the module
15:13:04 <gjanssens> Many of these are not even implemented, so are fake tests that will always succeed
15:13:08 <mykeylynx> exporting csv from quicken category what does it mp to in Gcash
15:13:22 <mykeylynx> map too
15:13:42 <mykeylynx> Account is Payee so what is Category?
15:13:52 <gjanssens> I can see how testing a gnc_module_load on a module could be helpful, but I doubt it's useful to test if a shared library can be linked to
15:14:08 <gjanssens> As far as I know that's implicitly tested just by building gnucash already
15:14:18 <gjanssens> So I propose to drop these tests. Is that ok with you ?
15:14:30 <jralls> gjanssens, absolutely.
15:15:10 <jralls> mykeylynx Quicken categories are more or less equivalent to expense accounts in GnuCash.
15:16:08 <mykeylynx> the amount column from quicken is mixed cant do it
15:16:38 <jralls> mykeylynx, You didn't say that you are exporting from Quicken.
15:17:41 <mykeylynx> now i tried to export from quicken, I'll be better
15:17:44 <jralls> REad https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Quicken_Migration
15:19:03 <jralls> Also read https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/index.html. GnuCash works very differently from Quicken.
15:19:12 <mykeylynx> Thank you
15:22:37 <jralls> gjanssens, I'm starting to put together the release announcement for 3.901. Is there anything you want mentioned?
15:23:13 <gjanssens> jralls: good question... most of the bigger changes I have done have been a while
15:23:48 <gjanssens> Should we mention the deprecations in various parts ?
15:24:53 <gjanssens> Most of them will be generating deprecation messages though.
15:25:04 <jralls> We absolutely should mention deprecations and removal of functions deprecated in 3.x.
15:25:32 <jralls> I think there's more of the latter.
15:25:58 <gjanssens> We can mention to watch for deprecation messages in the trace file for those that have custom code (usually custom reports)
15:26:18 <gjanssens> They should do so before upgrading to 4.x
15:26:32 <jralls> Right.
15:28:30 <gjanssens> At this point that's all I can think of. I don't think I have added much to 4.x featurwise
15:28:36 <gjanssens> featurewise*
15:30:38 <gjanssens> chris: you recently asked whether or not to replace the reports on master
15:31:23 <gjanssens> I believe new-owner and new-aging are now a superset of the original reports, so they can be replaced IMO
15:31:47 <gjanssens> Did we have incompatible option changes in these ? I don't remember.
15:32:07 <gjanssens> That is, are we dropping options or replacing them with others ?
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15:32:28 <gjanssens> I also can't find immediatly what the third report was you mentioned.
15:34:08 <jralls> Plus all of the reports in report/experimental when you run with the --extra option.
15:36:45 <jralls> gjanssens, CMakeLists says Gtk 3.18.0 but Ubuntu 18.04 ships 3.22.30. Should we match that?
15:38:21 <gjanssens> That would be nice as it would allow another round of simplifications in our code
15:39:25 <jralls> OK. Same for glib, 2.56.1 vs. 2.46.0
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16:06:41 <jralls> gjanssens, what about webkit? I'm ambivalent about that. On the one hand we could simplify a bit by requiring webkit2gtk-4.0, but we still have to use webkitgtk-3.0 for Mac/Win32.
16:08:22 <gjanssens> jralls: if we have to use webkitgtk-3.0 on Mac/Win32 then how can we require webkit2gtk-4.0 ?
16:09:08 <jralls> The same way we now require Webkit2gtk-3.0 on Linux.
16:09:50 <gjanssens> Don't know exactly how that is, let me check the code
16:10:31 <jralls> if (WIN32 OR APPLE)...else()...endif().
16:10:59 <gjanssens> Right, got it now
16:11:19 <gjanssens> Are there linux distros we care about that don't ship webkit2gtk-4.0 ?
16:13:04 <jralls> Looking for what version first had 4.0...
16:19:03 <jralls> It was 2.6, so no. Everything ships newer, though a few still also provide 2.4.11, probably for cross-compiling MinGW stuff.
16:21:21 <jralls> There's no need to be picky about what version of -4.0 we use though, our needs are very basic.
16:24:23 <gjanssens> Ok, go for it then
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16:36:30 <gjanssens> And with that all gnc-modules are now converted in plain libraries, except for aqb, ofx and python
16:36:55 <gjanssens> The last three are modules that can be enabled or disabled via cmake switches
16:37:11 <gjanssens> It was easier to keep them contained in a module still.
16:38:41 <jralls> Did you build with -DWITH_GNUCASH=OFF?
16:39:32 <gjanssens> No. Let me try
16:39:48 <jralls> OTOH, I doubt that anyone ever does that for real. Maybe we should just remove the option. WITH_SQL too.
16:39:57 <gjanssens> For fun, I compared startup times between maint and master
16:40:18 <gjanssens> master: less than a second before it starts loading data file
16:40:27 <jralls> I'd guess it save about 60 seconds.
16:40:35 <gjanssens> maint: almost 3 seconds before it starts loading data file
16:41:15 <gjanssens> I'm on nvme drive. I suspect users on normal spinning disks should notice a much bigger improvement
16:41:30 <gjanssens> (in absolute seconds, not percentage)
16:42:53 <jralls> Hmm, it just took 7 seconds for me, also with an SSD.
16:43:45 <gjanssens> Does that include data loading ? That part takes up most of the startup time anyway
16:44:14 <gjanssens> But still anything we can shave off during startup is a win
16:44:15 <jralls> No, that was from hitting return to the file-is-locked dialog.
16:44:23 <gjanssens> Ok
16:44:25 <jralls> Oh absolutely.
16:44:49 <gjanssens> It builds and checks fine with -DWITH_GNUCASH=OFF
16:45:10 <jralls> Great! But we should still probably remove the option.
16:45:22 <gjanssens> I don't agree
16:45:42 <jralls> Why? GnuCash is darn near useless without the GUI.
16:46:06 <jralls> All it can do is retrieve prices.
16:46:11 <gjanssens> I think it will be useful to build engine code only, for python bindings
16:46:37 <gjanssens> Or as the core of a decent Android/iOS companion
16:47:08 <gjanssens> And on the topic of price retrieval, I'm very tempted to split that off in a separate executable
16:47:31 <gjanssens> It makes a mess of our main code in gnucash-bin.c
16:48:11 <gjanssens> Other than that I agree we can drop the WITH_SQL option.
16:49:48 <gjanssens> Anyway, it's getting late here. I'm off to bed.
16:49:52 <gjanssens> Good night all!
16:50:00 <jralls> Goodnight!
16:52:35 <gjanssens> Oh, one last thing I forgot
16:53:32 <gjanssens> jralls: as the XCode configuration support is still in it only ran a subset of the tests. I have forgotten to run the full test suite. I'll try to do so tomorrow
16:53:44 <gjanssens> Or what the heck
16:53:54 <gjanssens> It only should take 5 minutes...
16:54:11 <jralls> You don't need to sleep anyway... ;-)
16:55:32 <gjanssens> :D
16:57:07 <gjanssens> 100% tests passed, 0 tests failed out of 113
16:57:14 <gjanssens> Now I can sleep :)
16:57:15 <gjanssens> Bye
16:57:22 <jralls> 'night
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17:20:14 <chris> jralls: I know writing on merge commits isn't perfect, but the exercise is complete... No more messages planned. I was struggling discriminating against jean's dozens merges.
17:20:38 <jralls> chris, OK.
17:20:57 <jralls> Since you're here, any input for the 3.901 release notes?
17:21:31 <jralls> And have you cleared out all of the functions from master that you deprecated in maint?
17:23:56 <chris> jralls: I've removed all my 3.x deprecations in master, yes
17:24:53 <chris> here a few minutes
17:26:59 <chris> release notes: html-chart is new, urls in charts resurrected after ?15 years.... please test charts thoroughly
17:27:44 <chris> I was planning to upgrade income-gst-statement with an incompatible option change in master, not quite sure how to do backward-compatibility yet
17:28:43 <jralls> I think that income-gst is new enough and always advertised as somewhat experimental that you don't need to put too much effort into that.
17:28:55 <jralls> What about the other experimental reports?
17:29:49 <jralls> I think if you want them tested they can't hide behind --extra, nearly nobody runs with --extra.
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17:30:46 <chris> ok. other experimental reports: I think balsheet-pnl is ready. IMNSHO it can supplant balsheet/balsheet-eguile/income-statement, but not all options have survived. some options are stupid and have gone (eg too many subtotals options)
17:30:47 <jralls> html-chart means chartjs, right?
17:30:52 <chris> yes
17:31:19 <jralls> GnuCash has lots of stupid options...
17:32:01 <jralls> and there's no agreement about which ones or which values are the stupid ones. :-/
17:32:07 <chris> new-owner-report and new-aging are also "better" with stupid options also removed
17:32:40 <chris> ^ example: report currency is stupid... there's APAR currency and that's enough
17:32:59 <chris> new-owner/aging are a bit slower than old ones
17:33:24 <jralls> Stupid options aside, will anything break if you replace the old reports with the newer ones? The discarded options are just ignored, right?
17:33:29 <chris> due to lot->invoice and split->owner not being cached
17:33:54 <chris> hmm the option names are not all transferable; I'll need to audit them
17:34:30 <chris> About --extra: only lot-viewer is new, and already present in maint.
17:35:58 <chris> new-owner/new-aging: I'll need to check if/how they can replace old-reports in-place; give me 1 week or so.
17:36:26 <jralls> OK. Feature freeze isn't till the end of next month.
17:37:44 <jralls> Followed by a month of weekly releases to clean up the most egregious bugs.
17:39:40 <chris> So summary: no new major scm features in master except chartjs, I'll see about supplanting new-owner/aging; I'm hesitant about balsheet because ppl are so passionate about their old reports.
17:40:44 <jralls> Well, you could call it balsheet2 or something so that those attached to the old can stay with it and those who like the new one can have that.
17:41:32 <jralls> multi-column balsheet has long been requested and I'd like to see that made ready and put in the assets menu.
17:41:37 <chris> Should we canvas -user?
17:42:04 <jralls> About which balsheet report they like?
17:42:30 <chris> about whether to downgrade/hide/rename old balsheet & income-statement
17:43:25 <jralls> Sure.
17:44:20 <jralls> Though just because they assent doesn't mean that someone won't crawl out from under a rock in 6 months and complain loudly.
17:44:53 <chris> At least they'll be warned
17:44:54 <jralls> Speaking of which, have you come to a decision about the budget changes?
17:45:54 <chris> well due to a lack of beta testers I may just have to plunge and use my own judgement, and postpone any migration to 5.x
17:45:57 <jralls> I'm pretty disgusted with the whole thing. People bitched for a year because of problems not being fixed, then you fixed them and the same people bitched about that.
17:46:21 <chris> ... and can't/won't beta test
17:46:58 <jralls> Right. So I'm tempted to just remove the budget module and tell folks that want to budget to use a spreadsheet.
17:47:06 <chris> lol
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17:49:03 <chris> no good deed etc
17:49:41 <chris> gtg back to bed soon
17:51:01 <jralls> OK.
17:51:06 <jralls> g'night.
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23:24:18 <chris> new-owner and new-aging: My preference is to swap report UUIDs, and hide old reports behind --extras for 4.x
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23:26:28 <chris> jralls: I'll let you or gjanssens tame travis's old ubuntu
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