2020-02-24 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:13:52 <gjanssens> .
05:13:52 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 11 hours and 20 minutes ago: <paul> I'm trying to import my customers.csv into gnucash 3.4-1+b10 on mx19. The notes column (just after the email column) is importing into the shipname column. The notes column is being skipped in the import gui. How do I change the csv so the notes column imports correctly?
05:13:53 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 10 hours and 32 minutes ago: <paul> Nevermind. I got it working. Had to make sure each line in the csv ended with a double semi-colon. Also, in the import gui, the notes column was still being skipped but once I clicked on the semicolon separated with quotes bullet and then clicked back on the semicolon separated bullet ... the notes column was not longer being skipped. Thanks to all the devs. Donated again this year. Cheers.
05:18:49 <gjanssens> @tell paul glad you found it. Though for completeness I'll add I didn't do the customer csv import so I know as little about it as jralls...
05:18:49 <gncbot> gjanssens: The operation succeeded.
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06:18:33 <chris> I have a feeling I can dedupe QIF in gnc:account-tree-find-duplicates in qif-merge-groups.scm
06:21:13 <gjanssens> chris: thumbs up
06:22:58 <gjanssens> fell: I was going over the aqbanking integration code in gnucash (high-level) and I'm wondering whether it still makes sense to keep support for version 5 ?
06:23:41 <gjanssens> As I understand it won't have much use in Germany any more. However I don't know what the status is of the online ofx support for US banks ?
06:24:04 <gjanssens> I know it has been broken for a while, but has it been fixed by now ?
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08:09:36 <chris> fwiw nobody's noticed that gnc:account-tree-find-duplicates had a *major* speedup a few months ago, from 1 qof-query per qif-txn to 1 qof-query per import :-/
08:10:36 <chris> 944e78144
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09:19:32 <Antic> Why is it such a problem to manually edit payment transactions in A/R? I occasionally do this when I have to pop in a check number, or change what account the money went into, or (currently) adding a split to a transaction to accept a tip from my customer.
09:31:04 <fell> gjanssens: https://repology.org/project/aqbanking/versions still shows many distributions, which ship AqBanking 5. I do not exactly know the current state of the other modules like EBICS, directofx, paypal. They seem not to be affected by PSD2 changes.
09:34:12 <chris> Antic: why problem? right-click transaction, Edit Payment
09:38:35 <fell> ABout ofx: There is at least one ofx patch in yesterdays aqbanking 6.1.1
09:42:10 <Antic> chris: I read all over the internet that you're not supposed to edit things in A/R or A/P. eg, one part of the GnuCash Mailing list states "be ABSOLUTELY SURE that you do NOT touch the A/R split or change its value. That will throw off the, A/R lots completely."
09:46:31 <chris> Antic: you can edit APAR via Process-Payment
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09:47:57 <Antic> chris: yes, but what about manually changing the splits? Process Payment doesn't let you create a split, you have to do that manually on the ledger in AR
09:50:01 <chris> well in the register you're not disallowed from changing the splits, so, in a way it's not disallowed. but you must scrutinise the Customer Report (including the beta one) carefully to ensure you understand the consequences
09:50:22 <chris> Antic: Process Payment does create a split APAR<->Bank
09:52:01 <chris> actually, check the customer report (beta) more, and report any bugs. it'll be the replacement customer report in due course.
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09:54:11 <chris> the manual mainly recommends forbidding creating MANUAL transactions APAR from/to INC/EXP or ASSET/LIABILITY
09:54:51 <chris> however, creating a manual transaction APAR<->BANK and later assign as payment is a perfectly valid approach
09:55:14 <chris> this is to accommodate, e.g. ppl who download txns from bank, and later assign the amounts as payments to existing bills/invoices
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09:56:56 <Antic> Yeah I don't see any reason do create transactions like that. Although I've never used the beta report - will check that out momentarily. As for the normal customer report, I think it's working as expected: A customer paid me $95 for a $90 invoice. I processed the payment as $90, then went and added a split in AR that goes from Assets:Cash to Income:Tips. The customer report still shows a $90 invoice, and a $90 payment.
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09:58:12 <Antic> well, the tip increases both cash and tips, anyway.
10:00:13 <chris> please review the beta reports. classically we'd expect the $5 to be an overpayment, to be applied to future invoices. your approach (apply $5 as extra income) is also correct but probably not understood by customer invoice (beta)
10:01:45 <Antic> These tips are not overpayments, although I have had that happen in the past, this amount will not be applied to future invoices. Becuase I'm cash-basis, I generally would just go back and add a line-item on the invoice for a tip and repost it before processing a payment, but if I decide to switch to accrual by next tax season I'm trying to make sure it is recorded accurately
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10:02:51 <chris> well, it looks like you're extra careful, so, feel free to experiment.
10:03:43 <chris> as a rule, many gnucash operations are more "devs' understanding of business processes" rather than "accounting dogma", so, bugreports are the way to improve things
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10:12:09 <Antic> Well, I'm a C++ programmer, so maybe that's why I like GnuCash lol. I look at QuickBooks and think "what the hell does any of these features even do.. where's the ledger?"
10:15:56 <warlord> Antic, the C++ migration of GnuCash is relatively new.
10:16:29 <Antic> I haven't yet looked into any of the source. I may eventually.
10:17:49 <Antic> The balance goes to -90 for some reason on the beta one. Is that intended? Customer Report: https://pasteboard.co/IWbe2Yb.jpg Beta Report: https://pasteboard.co/IWbenma.jpg
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10:18:46 <Antic> Oh, the column is actually changed to "Amounts" instead of "Balance"
10:19:02 <chris> ^ Amounts changed to Balance in new beta report, better
10:19:46 <chris> explore beta's Display/Links=detailed
10:21:04 <Antic> oooh, that shows the full 95 there for a payment. I dig.
10:21:27 <Antic> though the rest of the columns, at least in this scenario, seem a bit redundant
10:21:48 <chris> ... and click the row :)
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10:23:40 <Antic> clicking the row doesn't do anything. I'm running 3.8b+(2019-12-29)
10:24:46 <chris> well then you must try the cutting-edge maint
10:24:54 <Antic> although I did notice that the payment came before the invoice on the detailed section. Maybe because the invoice was reposted after a payment was posted? https://pasteboard.co/IWbhf3T.jpg
10:25:26 <Antic> I tried building from git, but gnucash didn't like running from /opt/gnucash for some reason, despite following all the cmake instructions
10:25:52 <Antic> I marked on my calendar the gnucash release in March though lol
10:25:55 <chris> Antic: no. RHS shows LHS's linked details.
10:26:34 <Antic> ooh
10:26:41 <chris> maybe try flatpak cutting edge. the $5 extra-income is an interesting concept that cannot be handled by beta report yet.
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10:29:01 <chris> however $5 extra income is 'unattached' to customer therefore shouldn't appear in the LHS customer report
10:36:08 <gjanssens> Antic: nothing stops you from changing payment transactions directly in APAR accounts, but there may be subtle side effects
10:36:18 <chris> well gtg now good luck and report bugs
10:36:33 <gjanssens> It think as long as you don't change the APAR account splits themselves you should be good to go
10:37:18 <gjanssens> Those are tied into lots via the business logic and changing them can have side effects (like lots going out of balance in ways you may not expect)
10:37:42 <Antic> chris: thank you!
10:37:46 <gjanssens> However I think the code is more robust than it used to be so it may be less of an issues these days
10:38:04 <gjanssens> So your trick of adding a tip should be safe IMO.
10:38:17 <gjanssens> As it's not changing the APAR split itself
10:38:54 <chris> antic: seriously grab cutting edge and click the row :)
10:39:54 <Antic> xWell, as far as I can tell everything adds up, balances, and looks correct for the last year of business, but whatever unexpected quirks from mucking around and learning this are making me a bit concerned. I'd hate to find something off and realize I remitted the wrong amount of taxes or something
10:40:03 <Antic> chis: I plan to (:
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10:41:07 <gjanssens> Antic: your balances won't be off.
10:41:27 <Antic> Also, when I unpost an invoice and have to modify the payment amount, I have to manually go into AR and delete the payment transaction, and recreate a new one with the payment system. Is that okay?
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10:41:56 <gjanssens> That's fine
10:42:33 <gjanssens> You could also reassing the existing payment to the invoice again (adjusting the amount on the go in the payment window) by using Apply as payment.
10:42:42 <gjanssens> re-assign...
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10:44:50 <Antic> Alright. How about changing the date of the payment, "ref" cell, etc? everything fine as long as I don't modify the value of the transaction to/from AR and Income?
10:46:59 <warlord> Antic, you can modify the payment transaction as much as you like, so long as you don't touch the AR Split.
10:47:37 <gjanssens> That includes you're free to change date and description.
10:48:24 <warlord> correct. you can even add more splits.
10:48:39 <warlord> or change the "other" (non AR) account(s)
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13:05:17 <laxiy> hello, is there any fool-proof step-by-step instruction on how to get gnucash 3.8 on windows get connected to german DKB bank via HBCI/FinTS?
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13:52:44 <warlord> laxiy, I recommend you ask on the gnucash-de mailing list
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14:54:13 <ecdhe> Let's say I have 25 expense accounts in various categories. Then I need to prepare for taxes, and only some of the items in each account are tax deductable. This makes it difficult to determine what the total amount of tax-deductible spending is. One way around this would be to make a pari of accounts for every expense category, such as Fuel (Deductible) and Fuel (Non deductible), but this really explodes against 25 expense accounts. Is there a way
14:54:13 <ecdhe> to tag individual receipts as members of an additional account?
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14:59:23 <ecdhe> For instance, Part II of IRS 1040 Schedule C lists 19 seperate categories for tax-deductible expenses; is there a way I could tag certain expenses with one of these 19 categories, such that I could pull a report at the end of the year listing the totals in each category?
15:01:56 <ecdhe> One way would be to make each IRS category its own account, but this effectively breaks various expense accounts in two, in the case where only some expenses with a particular vendor are deductible.
15:13:43 <warlord> ecdhe, no, gnucash does not support "tags" like that. You could use a field like the Action or Notes (or even Split Memo) to add a keyword.
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15:47:03 <fell> gjanssens or jralls: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-on-windows/pull/32
15:57:24 <fell> I am currently building the same for flatpak...
16:01:47 <ecdhe> warlord: perhaps this is structural, but what I really have to do is keep two sets of books for the same ledger. One set of books is the actual real-world categories for each expense, the kind of categories that let you say "we're paying a lot for shipping, it looks like we could afford to buy a truck and make the deliveries ourselves". The other set of books is from the government's perspective, which doesn't care whether you're buying staples or
16:01:47 <ecdhe> fuel or postage, but whether an expense qualifies as a particular protected class.
16:05:21 <warlord> maybe.
16:05:58 <warlord> or you could just have Expenses:Fuel:Deductable and Expenses:Fuel:Non-Deductible. This still lets you see how much Fuel you buy, but also lets you separate out later.
16:06:19 <ecdhe> warlord: yes, but brings a combinatorial explosion.
16:06:28 <warlord> It's only a factor of 2.
16:06:41 <warlord> .. And only for places where you have both deductible and non-deductible expenses.
16:06:59 <ecdhe> warlord: there are 19 different deductible sub-categories.
16:07:17 <warlord> Then perhaps you should have 19 accounts and not 25? ;)
16:08:15 <ecdhe> warlord: I think you're seeing the picture; if I have 19 accounts, per the IRS, then I would just add my supplier's as sub accounts for each of the 19 categories.
16:08:37 <ecdhe> But some suppliers sell resources in multiple categories.
16:09:17 <ecdhe> So it's a sparse matrix, with an upper limit of 19 categories * 25 vendors
16:09:50 <ecdhe> But I would lose the ability to see the actual real-world attributes of the goods.
16:13:31 <warlord> Wait, I don't understand the 25 vendors -- why does that matter?
16:13:58 <warlord> You don't (or shouldn't) have an Expenses:Fuel:Kroger, Expenses:Fuel:BP, Expenses:Fuel:Shell
16:14:22 <warlord> You just have Expenses:Fuel, and label it as Kroger Gas, BP, or Shell in the transaction description.
16:14:28 <warlord> So it's not at all 19 * 25 here.
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16:23:26 <fell> warlord: Let guys like laxiy at first read https://www.aquamaniac.de/rdm/projects/aqbanking/wiki
16:31:20 <fell> and our step by step is https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/Onlinebanking-Einrichtungsassistent
16:38:56 <warlord> fell, okay
16:39:43 <fell> :-)
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17:08:38 <ecdhe> warlord: what if you're being invoiced by Kroger for corporate fuel? It's not a receipt but a check you have to make out to a particular vendor.
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17:10:27 <ecdhe> warlord: could you get appropriate reporting by doing a transaction to the kroger account, then moving that amount to the correct taxable category? Then the Kroger account would reflect that you had paid them <annual total> and you could move the fuel portion to fuel, the pencil portion to "office supplies", etc
17:11:02 <ecdhe> A memo line is interesting, but it's not reportable like a tag, or a seperate account would be.
17:11:46 <ecdhe> If I write "kroger" in my memo line under Expenses:Fuel then it's difficult to put a report together to show how much I'm spending at Kroger all year.
17:12:05 <ecdhe> I have to painfully enter all this information manually, I don't want to lose it.
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19:59:02 <warlord> ecdhe, that's what AP/Vendors are for. AP -> Expenses:Fuel, and then Bank -> AP to pay the bill. "Kroger" is in the description and/or Vendor Bill data.
20:00:06 <warlord> ecdhe, if you put "Kroger" into the description, there are several ways to get a report on how much you spend over the course of a year.
20:00:25 <warlord> My first suggestion would be a search for Desc == Kroger and then run an "Account Report" on the results.
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