2020-01-06 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:36:00 * fell is wondering, why https://code.gnucash.org/builds/win32/build-logs/maint/2020-01/build-maint-2020-01-06-03-01-01.log says: Build Started 2020-01-06 03:01:01 Already up to date.
05:38:25 <fell> if i did not messed up TZ, my at least my last commit was after the previous build and before the start time.
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05:52:54 <leolein> Happy New Year
05:53:50 <chris> @tell Ernie afaik this is known behaviour. too many barchart segments = no clarity. fwiw next gnucash 4.0 will have a better chart where you can drill down to explode the combined segments.
05:53:50 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
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06:02:41 <leolein> fell: Mittlerweile funktioniert bei mir auch eine Überweisung wieder. Da es nur eine Testüberweisung war, war der Betrag unter der TAN-Grenze. Einen höheren Betrag zu überweisen steht noch aus.
06:03:37 <fell> Schön! Und worann lag's?
06:05:49 <Mechtilde> fell, which version of aqbanking was used building gnucash 3.8 upstream?
06:07:09 <leolein> fell: Woran es genau lag kann ich leider nicht berichten. Ab maint-C3.7-270 hat es funktioniert.
06:08:33 <fell> For the Flatpak, Win and MacOS bundles 6-beta, for other Linux, it depends on your distributions maintainer.
06:09:01 <leolein> Alle Meldungen in GnuCash deuteten für mich immer wieder darauf hin, dass ich als User nichts am Zustand ändern kann. Deshalb hab ich immer mal neue Version installiert.
06:09:39 <fell> leolein, was war nochmal die Bank und das Problem?
06:10:23 <Mechtilde> fell thanks thats what I guess Debian used 5.99.42beta-2
06:11:10 <Mechtilde> so gnucash didn't show the dialog to input the TAN at login
06:11:19 <Mechtilde> I will do a bugreport
06:12:31 <fell> Mechtilde, for exact versions see Downloads in https://www.aquamaniac.de/rdm/
06:12:57 <leolein> fell: Triodos Bank. Erst kam die Meldung, dass der Hersteller der Software nicht zugelassen sei und Versionen später wollte der Austausch/Handshake nicht funktonieren (Formulierung aus meiner Erinnerung).
06:14:10 <fell> Ach, das Zertifikat-Problem
06:14:18 <leolein> Genau
06:15:23 <fell> Ich glaube, die werden über Mozilla/Firefox aktualisiert und dann von allen mglichen Programmen verwendet.
06:15:52 <leolein> Das ist ja ne tolle "Abhängigkeit"
06:17:29 <fell> Mechtlde, aktuell sind: aqbanking-5.99.44beta, gwenhywfar-4.99.25rc9, libchipcard-5.1.4rc1
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06:19:44 <fell> leolein, tls-Zertifikate knnen sich ja täglich ändern und da will ja nicht jeder eine neue Release für rausbringen.
06:20:10 <leolein> Verstehe.
06:20:51 <leolein> fell: Apropos TLS-Zertifikat. Da fällt mir eine Frage zu ein.
06:21:58 <leolein> In der Vergangenheit war es so, dass ich beim Online-Banking mit GnuCash hin und wieder die Meldung (Fenster mit Fingerprint) bekam zum Zertifikat und ob ich diesem vertrauen möchte.
06:23:04 <leolein> Um diese Meldung/Frage beantworten zu können müsste ich jedoch den Fingerprint irgendwo abgleichen/vergleichen können.
06:24:17 <fell> Theoretisch ja, noch mal aus einer anderen Quelle besorgen (Bankaushang?) und vergleichen.
06:26:13 <leolein> fell: Ich hab damals versucht über die Bank telefonisch darauf eine Antwort zu bekommen. Trotz meiner Ansicht nach vorhandener Kompetenz bzgl. IT konnte mir da niemand einen Link oder eine Stelle sagen wo der "Original-Fingerprint" zum Abgleich verfügbar ist.
06:26:36 <fell> Praktisch guck ich nach ob der verifizierungs-pfad ok ist.
06:27:18 <leolein> Was meinst Du mit Verifizierungspfad?
06:28:41 <fell> Klick mal in Firefox auf das Schloß in der Adressleiste
06:29:31 <fell> Verbindungsdetails; weitere Informationen
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06:30:50 <leolein> da sind verschiedene schlüssel-IDs und Finterprints
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06:31:19 <fell> Unser Aussteller ist lets encrypt
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06:32:08 <fell> Wenn ich jetzt mitbekäme, bei denen wäre eingebrochen worden, würde ich dem Zertifikat nicht mehr vertrauen.
06:32:54 <leolein> Okay. Entweder hat sich auch im Firefox der Umfang der Anzeige stark verbessert oder ich war zu blöd dafür. Mit diesen Fingerprints hätte ich es vermutlich abgleichen können.
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06:33:40 <fell> und die Kette Website, Autorität, Root CA sollte gültig sein.
06:34:15 <leolein> Also Beginn und Ende valide?
06:34:49 <fell> Die haben das schon gut versteckt, weil es Otto Normalverbraucher nur verwirrt.
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06:36:27 <leolein> Mit Gültig meinst Du einfach, ob das Ende der Gültigkeit in der Zukunft liegt bei allen Drei.
06:36:30 <leolein> ?
06:37:14 <fell> ja
06:37:21 <Mechtilde> fell the website shows aqbanking last News 5.99.43 beta
06:37:23 <leolein> okay :-)
06:38:16 <fell> Mechtilde, deshalb hat es auch länder gedauert, bis ich unsere Bündel auf 44 aktualisiert hat.
06:38:40 <fell> Da hat Martin schlicht vergessen, eine News zu erstellen.
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06:39:18 <Mechtilde> ok
06:39:28 <fell> Seitdem guck ich immer in den verschiedenen Download-Ordnern nach.
06:39:46 <Mechtilde> fell, ann melde ich dass mal über die Lsite
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06:40:05 <Mechtilde> bzw. Debian-bugtracker
06:40:35 <kinlo> is there a way to programatically edit the gnucash database? some kind of api so I can automatically fill in some accounts?
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06:41:40 <fell> kinlo: https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/ ?
06:42:27 <fell> or https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Python_Bindings
06:43:47 <kinlo> hmmmz, the python bindings seem promising, I'll investigate, thanks
06:44:21 <fell> welcome
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06:47:35 <fell> Mechtile, ich glaub, der Maintainer hat vor nicht all zu laner Zeit wegen Überlastung um Hilfe gebeten.
06:49:16 <fell> Mechtilde, tschuldigung, ich glaub.ichmuß gelegentlich meine Tastatur warten.
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07:11:16 <tetraedr> Hello. I'm trying to migrate my accounting from Google Sheets to GNU Cash. My primary purpose is multicurrency, using budgets and getting net worth reports. From what I've tried GNU Cash did not allow me to create recurrent transactions between accounts with different currencies. My plan on how to workaround this is to create all of the upcoming transactions. For this I would like to use Python
07:11:17 <tetraedr> bindings but documentation is pretty terse so could you please point me to the docs describing GNU Cash objects (such as book, account, transaction, split? and etc...) or if I'm overcomplicating things then what would be the other way to achieve my goals?
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07:18:12 <Mechtilde> fell meinst Du Aqbanking oder gnucash?
07:18:31 <tetraedr> Hello. I'm trying to migrate my accounting from Google Sheets to GNU Cash. My primary purpose is multicurrency, using budgets and getting net worth reports. From what I've tried GNU Cash did not allow me to create recurrent transactions between accounts with different currencies. My plan on how to workaround this is to create all of the upcoming transactions. For this I would like to use Python
07:18:33 <tetraedr> bindings but documentation is pretty terse so could you please point me to the docs describing GNU Cash objects (such as book, account, transaction, split? and etc...) or if I'm overcomplicating things then what would be the other way to achieve my goals?
07:19:21 <Mechtilde> fell, do you mean gnucash or Aqbanking
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07:56:51 <chris> tetraedr: https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/SQL
08:03:03 <fell> Mechtilde, ich meinte Dmitry Smirnov.
08:05:49 <fell> Bei Aqbanking ist's wohl immer noch Micha Lenk.
08:11:22 <Mechtilde> ja
08:11:28 <fell> tetraedr, one problem is the floating exchange rate. but you can Insert a variable in the terminated transaction.
08:11:36 <Mechtilde> von gnuCash gabs ne neue Version
08:12:36 <fell> Mechtilde, auf aqbanking-user liest der eigentlich mit.
08:14:19 <fell> tetraedr. https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Scheduled_Transactions
08:40:11 <tetraedr> fell: there's some insane functional language :(
08:40:58 <fell> I don't understand you.
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08:41:59 <tetraedr> the page you've linked explains how to implement Bank Account Interest. as I understand that's the way I need to go with but it is written in scheme that I'm completely unaware of :(
08:44:27 <fell> Ah, that is the 'original' language still used in reports.
08:44:56 <tetraedr> 0_0 not a good news
08:49:31 <fell> there are a few funcions defined in https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/master/libgnucash/app-utils/fin.scm like pmt for payment amount. Everything else is seen as a variable, which get asked on execution.
08:49:47 <fell> ... or assignment
08:52:07 <fell> Assume I want to by each mont security XXX for 50€.
08:52:30 <fell> This month the price is 10.
08:53:18 <fell> I create a transaction bank -> securty:XXX 5 @10
08:54:09 <tetraedr> a noob q: how good is GNU Cash for budgeting and forecasts? The more I look the more it seems like I'm trying to make it work in the way it isn't made for
08:55:57 <fell> then I cconvert it into a sccheduled transaction and replace the 5 by "pieces" and the 10 by 50/pieces.
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08:56:43 <tetraedr> fell: but the doc says it will prompt you for variable value on the transaction creation
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08:58:47 <fell> Yes, on creation, it will ask you for pieces.
09:00:12 <tetraedr> And that's the problem. I need those events to participate in the reports. The whole point of this epic quest is to get proper cash flow automated as much as possible. Exchange rates updates will still be manual but I need those transactions to be present.
09:02:17 <fell> Then hardcode an average rate and update them later.
09:03:26 <tetraedr> that's exactly what I want to do but it looks like I'll have to script things. or I'll have to create ~1.5k transactions manually
09:05:52 <fell> I would use the SX editor for simple things and the python api for more complex things.
09:07:22 <tetraedr> what is SX editor?
09:07:51 <fell> Schedile transaXions
09:08:11 <tetraedr> ah now I follow
09:09:12 <tetraedr> erm it looks like GNU Cash has an issue in CSS: it is trying to use GTK theme font color while having own background and I don't see any text. Is there some global override option to fix text color in reports?
09:09:48 <warlord2> tetraedr, gnucash can't give you estimates of future cash flow unless *you* tell it your guess of what those future expenditures will be.. And then you will have to manually adjust when the actual expenditure occurs.
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09:10:36 <warlord> .
09:10:59 <tetraedr> warlord: well this is the plan: use Python to mass create all planned future transactions
09:11:49 <tetraedr> scheduled transactions seem to cover a very different case, i.e. a reminder + default template. they're not used in budgeting, casting or anything else
09:12:34 <chris> tetraedr: correct, not used for budgets; however there's a report 'balance forecast' which does use them to generate nice charts
09:13:08 <chris> even then the report designer who created it very likely did NOT use scripting to create the scheduled transactions (SX)
09:13:09 <fell> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations#In_GTK_CONFIG_HOME
09:13:20 <fell> about css
09:14:27 <chris> tetraedr: we'd recommend familiarise with the GUI first and foremost, and explore using python for manipulating data - either (1) as a one-off mass import (2) or for regular manipulation eg create invoices/import txns
09:15:13 <chris> I also have a massive complaint that the python bindings are not well documented
09:15:37 <chris> and those who use them haven't explained their processes well
09:16:36 * chris has finished 'balance brought forward' feature for running-balance
09:18:10 <tetraedr> chris: the problem is that GUI doesn't fullfill my needs simply because the case is complicated I have to do a lot of actions just to set up. I don't need "bare" transaction logging as it is already working in Google Sheets pretty well, I need some advanced features that require a lot of input from the start.
09:19:28 <chris> maybe try explain one of the advanced stuff you need?
09:23:34 <tetraedr> I have a cash flow, this cash flow is covering a number of recurring expenses (rent, utility, services, etc...) and the first problem is that I get cash in $ and the most of the payments are in another currency. My current problem with Google Sheets is that I can't get at least a rough estimate for the question "how much money will I have at DD.MM.YY?", "when can I afford to spend XXX$?", and
09:23:36 <tetraedr> "what will be my net worth on DD.MM.YY?" along with looking at some kind of net worth curve for +3 years period
09:25:00 <chris> how many expenses you use? generally about 20 is manageable, and your best bet is to estimate the monthly outgoings for all 20, create SX for each, and run the balance forecast.
09:25:03 <chris> no python needed.
09:25:31 <chris> you can use the budget editor to get an estimate for the monthly outgoings.
09:25:41 <chris> then manually copy the amount to the SX editor
09:25:53 <chris> then run the balance forecast. job done.
09:26:20 <chris> warlord will agree this is the easiest way, and warlord is always right
09:26:57 <chris> if you find that an estimate is under, just edit the SX, and rerun the balance forecast. easy.
09:28:20 <tetraedr> the problem is that I can't create a recurring transaction that will transfer from account with currency X to account with currency Y
09:28:56 <tetraedr> trying to express everything in a single currency is a nightmare
09:30:28 <chris> ooh then i consider this to be a deficiency of SX
09:31:09 <tetraedr> I thought that there's some way to set "default"
09:31:12 <tetraedr> exchange rate
09:31:48 <tetraedr> sort of all future exchange rates will be X and later when the actual transaction will be created I would be able to enter the real rate
09:32:05 <chris> then i'm sorry i'm stumped
09:33:37 <chris> all i can say is good luck with python, maybe ask on userlist for advice setting up your scripts
09:34:26 <tetraedr> I would really love to avoid this custom script story as there are really many cases to cover (whole CRUD basically) and the lack of mass operations in GNU Cash make it even worth :( but seems that I can't
09:35:09 <tetraedr> fell: that's GTK itself but not the report. GTK theme is OK, but the report is not
09:36:07 <fell> chris knows tghe reports ways better han me.
09:37:01 <chris> tetraedr: best file bug with screenshots and themes/colours used etc.
09:38:42 <tetraedr> so no configuration there? It's not that I'm against the bug reporting but waiting for the fix, new version published and etc... I want to figure out if I can use GNU Cash for my case and if not then move on, I don't want to get stuck for long
09:40:57 <chris> remember open-source software only moves forward when volunteers create things that they need, or receive bug reports.
09:42:30 <chris> the report https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/467 was created by such a volunteer, and does exactly what you need; except he didn't need currency transfer on SX
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09:51:36 <chris> fwiw I think that the beancount community have a lot more hackers and may even support multicurrency SX
09:54:45 <tetraedr> thanks, I'll have a look at it. At the moment I'm trying Firefly III
10:00:06 <fell> warlord, some idea about https://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2020/01/06.html#T05:36:00
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12:16:00 <warlord> fell, when was your commit?
12:16:39 <warlord> the build started at 3am EST which is 9am CET
12:16:45 <warlord> technically 3:01
12:16:46 <fell> 2020-01-05 14:18:06
12:17:28 <warlord> Hmm. And you pushed to maint?
12:17:35 <fell> yep
12:17:42 <warlord> Hmm
12:18:42 <warlord> In the docs build the latest commit has the timestamp: Date: Sun Jan 5 12:13:33 2020 +0100
12:18:59 <warlord> But that's on code.
12:20:13 <fell> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/0f4265d910ab9b0ad9c261eb07c895c0576b8e91
12:20:16 <warlord> Win32 builder appears to have the same time; at least the timestamp on the build log is correct (3:01am)
12:21:56 <jralls> fell, warlord, that's the start-of-build message. The already up to date there means that gnucash-on-windows is already up to date. The actual build is probably hung.
12:25:45 <jralls> Yup, hung. Killed the guile task and it started the master build. I'll let that go and then restart maint for fell.
12:29:40 <fell> jralls, can you also add https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Git#Patches_and_Pull_Requests how to fetch a force pushed PR?
12:30:53 <jralls> fell You mean how to update your local repo after the submitter has force-pushed?
12:31:05 <fell> yes
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12:33:55 <fell> I usually create my local branches from rerfs and end in the old version.
12:34:16 <warlord> Well, that would do it.
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12:42:58 <jralls> fell: I think what it says now is correct: Either delete the branch and start over or reset it to before the PR's first commit.
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12:45:27 <jralls> I don't agree with getting and applying patches. That just adds work and makes conflict resolution harder because git will refuse to apply conflicting patches.
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12:52:30 <fell> I believe, that was written, when we started with git. IMHO it should be valid for simple issues like "I found a typo", but not for more complex things.
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13:00:13 <jralls> That kind of change seldom has conflicts, but even so it's simpler to just pull it in that to download and apply the patch.
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13:27:00 <fell> jralls: Feel free to make the priority more clear. BTW there is a similar section Translation#Direct_Contribution, which I would like to replace by a link.
13:27:42 <jralls> OK. You meant "procedure" rather than "priority", right?
13:28:33 <fell> And I am not sure, that there are no other places with similar content.
13:29:37 <fell> As you like. ;-)
13:33:57 <fell> e.g. https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/appendixb.html#appendixb_software_contribute
13:34:25 <fell> should be our most obsolete form.
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13:36:39 <fell> And once goodvibes copied the git page: https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/An_Introduction_to_Git#Patches
13:39:19 <fell> I think we should make the current Into ... use for normal contributors and the current Git for maintainers.
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13:50:27 <jralls> Maybe the guide should just point at the wiki.
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13:57:35 <fell> ... fot the whole FAQ page.
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16:39:46 <chris> jralls how's wrk on c++options
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17:23:39 <christian_loesel> Hallo, ich stehe gerade etwas auf dem Schlauch, was die Zusammenfassungsleiste betrifft... Irgendwie wird bei mir nicht alles gewertet...
17:26:07 <christian_loesel> Wie sieht es da mit dem Berechnungszeitraum aus?
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