2019-12-12 GnuCash IRC logs
00:39:14 *** jervin has quit IRC
00:47:07 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
00:57:52 *** omnireq has joined #gnucash
00:58:34 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
00:59:56 *** jervin has quit IRC
01:35:00 *** asdf has quit IRC
01:52:19 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
01:52:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
01:56:04 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
01:56:46 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
02:07:56 *** pohly has joined #gnucash
02:19:35 *** omnireq_ has joined #gnucash
02:20:46 *** omnireq has quit IRC
02:26:34 *** maschinenhans has joined #gnucash
02:33:51 *** omnireq_ has quit IRC
02:34:02 *** omnireq_ has joined #gnucash
02:44:31 *** maschinenhans has quit IRC
03:00:24 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
03:00:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
03:01:33 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
04:05:39 *** AL3X has joined #gnucash
04:42:34 *** storyjesse has joined #gnucash
05:26:44 *** storyjesse has quit IRC
05:34:22 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
05:42:45 *** nick_ has joined #gnucash
05:49:56 *** nick_ has quit IRC
05:51:31 *** JayC has quit IRC
05:51:43 *** nick_ has joined #gnucash
05:57:05 *** Aussie_matt has joined #gnucash
06:06:24 *** fell has joined #gnucash
06:06:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
06:38:11 *** nick_ has quit IRC
06:38:58 *** tonysoar has joined #gnucash
06:40:36 *** tonysoar has quit IRC
06:50:27 *** fell has quit IRC
06:50:47 *** fell has joined #gnucash
06:50:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
06:53:51 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
06:55:15 *** Jimraehl1 has quit IRC
06:57:35 *** Aussie_matt has quit IRC
07:08:43 *** fell has quit IRC
07:09:17 *** fell has joined #gnucash
07:09:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
07:37:10 *** warlord has quit IRC
07:45:38 *** User has joined #gnucash
07:45:41 <fell> @tell asdf https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GnuCash_and_Mobile_Devices
07:45:41 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
08:06:48 *** fwolfst has joined #gnucash
08:08:02 <fwolfst> hey there. German User who just had an audit from tax inspectors. Is there a _history of all the actions_ done within GnuCash? Like a journal, a protocol of the changes made, ... ?
08:16:46 *** User has quit IRC
08:18:01 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
08:20:00 <fwolfst> Okay, I see there is the log file, but I guess I could tamper with the log files (e.g. remove the creation of an invoice) and the program (e.g. remove the invoice) without it could be proven that I tampered with the data, right? I do not see auto-incrementing ids or something like that.
08:21:19 <fwolfst> imho the German Law is pretty crazy about revisioning and stuff. Impossible to comply 100%, but having files that prevent very simple modification of historical data would be great
08:28:13 *** oozer has joined #gnucash
09:34:46 *** fwolfst has quit IRC
09:41:28 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
09:46:10 *** oozer has quit IRC
09:50:33 *** fwolfst has joined #gnucash
10:05:49 *** Gerd has quit IRC
10:17:19 *** AL3X has quit IRC
10:24:27 *** kael has joined #gnucash
10:24:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v kael
10:24:46 *** omnireq_ has quit IRC
10:41:40 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
10:46:58 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
10:53:41 *** oozer has joined #gnucash
10:57:01 *** oozer has quit IRC
10:59:14 *** User has joined #gnucash
11:00:52 *** JayC has joined #gnucash
11:00:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v JayC
11:05:23 *** waeking has quit IRC
11:06:12 *** waeking has joined #gnucash
11:06:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v waeking
11:06:19 *** omnireq has joined #gnucash
11:06:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v omnireq
11:08:43 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
11:11:44 *** Gerd has quit IRC
11:20:28 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
11:22:49 *** oliver has quit IRC
11:24:32 *** oliver has joined #gnucash
11:26:56 <fell> fwolfst: es geht um https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/Projekte#GoBD
11:27:00 <fell> ?
11:31:01 *** waeking has quit IRC
11:31:50 *** waeking has joined #gnucash
11:31:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v waeking
11:35:45 <fwolfst> @fell: yes
11:35:45 <gncbot> fwolfst: Error: "fell:" is not a valid command.
11:35:49 <fwolfst> fell: yes
11:37:15 <fell> Es gab da mal vor Jahren Dikussionen auf der Mailingliste gnucash-de.
11:38:28 <fwolfst> fell: ich habe versucht die liste mit zu durchsuchen aber es ist nichts brauchbares dabei herausgekommen. Habe jetzt paar Hand ein paar Monate durchgeblättert, aber dann aufgegeben
11:38:32 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
11:39:46 <fell> Wahrscheinlich war das Ende 2014, Anfang 2015, als die Erste Fassung veröffentlicht wurde.
11:39:56 <fwolfst> fell: hatte eine Umsatzsteuerprüfung (winziges Gewerbe) und die Prüferin hat da relativ viel Zeit drauf verwendet mir zu erzählen was die Vorgaben sind -> Rüffel
11:40:16 <fwolfst> fell: german user maillinglist?
11:40:24 <fell> ja
11:41:52 <fell> Frag sie doch mal, wie es wäre, wenn du die datei täglich nach der Arbeit in Git eincheckst, ob ihr das genügen würde.
11:43:10 <fell> Ich würde dann das xml-backend ohne komprimierung verwenden, damit die Diffs schön lesbar sind.
11:45:52 *** waeking has quit IRC
11:46:44 <fwolfst> fell: april 14 bis november 15 auf mailingliste nichts gefunden (kann aber sein, dass der Betreff nicht zum Inhalt des threads passt)...
11:47:07 <fell> Aus technischer Sicht gab es die Unveränderbarkeit nie (auf Papier wurde mit der Rasierklinge frisiert).
11:47:34 <fell> Elekronisch kannst du mit einem Hex-Editor alles verändern.
11:47:46 <fwolfst> fell: ich glaube nicht dass sie git kennt :) aber an sich eine ganz gute idee. Und einen aktuellen hash dann irgendwo in der steuererklärung in einem Feld verbauen, so dass er vom FA gezeitstempelt ist.
11:48:48 <fell> Wenn Du das geklärt hast, kannst Du auf GnuCash-de noch mal berichten?
11:49:14 <fwolfst> fell: jaja ich weiß. Wobei es gibt da schon zwei Methoden: 1) einer zweiten Partei übergeben (zB FA selber) 2) mit zeitbasierten schlüsseln signieren lassen, denen man halt vertrauen muss
11:49:35 <fell> Eventuell kannst Du da auch jetzt gleiich noch mal fragenm wie die Leidensgenossne das handhaben.
11:50:43 <fwolfst> fell: ich vermute, die Dame kommt nicht wieder. Aber ich werde mir etwas ausdenken. Falls sie dann doch wieder kommt berichte ich davon was sie davon hält/hielt. Letzendlich muss soweit ich weiß halt auch ein "Index" erstellt werden sowie die angaben, WAS geändert wurde. Vielleicht bei git den inhalt der log-datei als commit-msg oder so.
11:51:22 <fwolfst> fell: bin mir nicht sicher wieviel zeit ich da reinstecken kann. Danke schonmal! Und ja, vermutlich wende ich mich beizeiten mal an die mailingliste
11:52:05 <fell> Es wäre schön, wenn das mal jemand abklären und im im Wiki zusammenfassen würde. :-)
11:53:00 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
11:53:22 *** guak has joined #gnucash
11:53:30 <fwolfst> fell: ja klar, aber ich contribute schon an allen ecken und enden bei allerlei projekten und mein gewerbe hat wirklich mini-umsatz und ich kenne die vorschriften auch nicht im detail.
11:53:43 *** fwolfst has quit IRC
11:54:27 <fell> Ich habe den link zur aktuellen fassung im Wiki gerade aktualisiert
12:01:11 <fell> Ich hatte seinerzeit einen ganz guten Draht zu meinem Sachbearbeiter beim FA. Habe den bei allen Unklarheiten angerufen und er hat mich im Zweifelsfall mit seinem Vorgesetzten verbunden.
12:14:19 *** fwolfst has joined #gnucash
12:16:13 <fwolfst> fell: ich mag die git idee. Rand-Detail was die anderen Archivierungs"lösungen" aber auch haben dürften: Wenn nach 11 Jahren ein Kunde die Löschung seiner persönlichen Daten (Anschrift) nach DSGVO verlangt. Müsste man eigentlich anonymisiert in die DB schreiben. oder die pers. Daten mit einem kundenspezifischen Schlüssel verschlüsseln
12:19:30 *** oliver has quit IRC
12:19:36 <fell> Puh, darüber habe ich mir schon länger keine Gedanken mehr gemacht. Wäre auch was für die Mailing-Liste.
12:21:13 *** oliver has joined #gnucash
12:25:32 *** storyjesse has joined #gnucash
12:27:23 <fell> Naja, im Prinzip: Lösche/überschreibe Kunden ohne Aktivität in den letzten zehn Jahren.
12:29:07 *** jervin has quit IRC
12:30:43 <fwolfst> fell: ja, aber dann musst du auch die git historie ändern und genau das willst du ja behaupten dass es nicht geht ... :)
12:33:01 <fwolfst> fell: es gibt wohl tatsächlich irgendeinen standard für verschlüsselte daten in xml elementen. Man könnte natürlich vor dem ablegen ins git tatsächlich die entsprechenden datensätze verschlüsseln und die Schlüssel vernichten, wenn ein Kunde das fordert. Wird aber alles ganz schön komplex gerade ...
12:33:08 <fell> Da liegt der Widerspruch zwischen GOBD und DSGO. Das ist wahrscheinlich eine Frage für das BVG.
12:33:56 <fwolfst> fell: soweit ich das verstehe "siegt" erstmal die gobd. Aber nach ablauf der mindestaufbewahrungsfrist (10 Jahre oder?) kann eine Person die Datenlöschung (und/oder Herausgabe) fordern.
12:34:26 *** storyjesse has quit IRC
12:36:15 <fell> Ich denke auch daß der Datenschutz das höhere recht ist. aber eEs hat schon einen Grund, daß die Justiz eine Waage statt eines Ein-Aus-Schalters als Symbol hat.
12:37:35 <fwolfst> :)
12:44:01 *** kael has quit IRC
12:56:40 *** Han has joined #gnucash
12:58:34 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
12:58:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
13:08:21 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
13:12:39 *** waeking has joined #gnucash
13:12:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v waeking
13:19:49 *** Gerd has quit IRC
13:23:19 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
13:23:49 *** waeking has quit IRC
13:25:29 *** waeking has joined #gnucash
13:25:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v waeking
13:31:27 *** fabior has joined #gnucash
13:32:03 *** fwolfst has quit IRC
13:42:14 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
13:42:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
14:08:53 *** fabior has quit IRC
14:15:03 *** FH_thecat has joined #gnucash
14:16:05 *** kael has joined #gnucash
14:16:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v kael
14:28:20 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
14:28:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v frakturfreak
14:56:21 *** calvinct has joined #gnucash
15:03:32 *** Guest93 has joined #gnucash
15:03:45 <Guest93> Hello all!
15:05:00 <Guest93> I'm fairly new to Gnucash and just started :) . How can I add a Savings account to my current assets? I selected "Simple checkbook" on startup. I have both accounts
15:07:12 <Guest93> Oh nevermind, I think I found my desired setup under "common accounts" Answered my own question!
15:11:54 *** Guest93 has quit IRC
15:12:51 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
15:22:16 *** Guest93 has joined #gnucash
15:25:09 <Guest93> Hello again, how can I set my opening balance in this software? (i.e. the balance of my "Cash in wallet" as of the moment I started using Gnucash)
15:25:50 <Guest93> appreciate any help!
15:26:11 *** calvinct has quit IRC
15:26:19 *** calvinct has joined #gnucash
15:36:17 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
15:37:57 *** calvinct1 has joined #gnucash
15:38:47 *** Guest93 has quit IRC
15:39:49 *** calvinct has quit IRC
15:39:49 *** calvinct1 is now known as calvinct
15:42:02 <jralls> @tell Guest93 Go study the Tutorial and Concepts Guide: https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/index.html or in the GnuCash Help menu (on Linux you may have to install a gnucash-docs package).
15:42:02 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
15:42:48 *** calvinct has quit IRC
15:55:56 *** fwolfst has joined #gnucash
16:02:28 *** fwolfst has quit IRC
16:16:11 *** KevinDB has quit IRC
16:18:22 *** KevinDB has joined #gnucash
16:18:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v KevinDB
16:38:17 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
17:03:11 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
17:05:51 *** pohly has quit IRC
17:07:06 *** kael has quit IRC
17:07:07 *** kael1 has joined #gnucash
17:07:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v kael1
17:10:07 *** kael1 has quit IRC
17:15:47 *** kael has joined #gnucash
17:15:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v kael
17:22:10 *** kael has quit IRC
17:27:22 *** User has quit IRC
17:28:32 *** oozer has joined #gnucash
17:45:14 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
17:46:36 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
17:54:35 *** jervin has quit IRC
17:58:27 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
18:07:42 *** jervin has quit IRC
18:45:09 *** Gerd has quit IRC
19:26:15 *** omnireq has quit IRC
20:50:02 *** guak has quit IRC
21:06:59 *** oozer has quit IRC
21:14:46 *** jralls has quit IRC
21:27:56 *** fell has quit IRC
21:31:04 *** fell has joined #gnucash
21:31:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
21:48:50 *** omnireq has joined #gnucash
22:11:41 *** oliver has quit IRC
22:13:25 *** oliver has joined #gnucash
22:58:41 *** TownsendHardware has quit IRC
23:14:04 *** bertbob has quit IRC
23:15:30 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
23:15:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
23:15:42 *** bertbob has quit IRC
23:16:19 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
23:16:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
23:21:53 *** bertbob has quit IRC
23:22:06 *** lmat has quit IRC
23:23:23 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
23:23:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
23:25:07 *** FH_thecat has quit IRC
23:27:16 *** nick_ has joined #gnucash
23:37:22 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
23:59:16 *** fell has quit IRC