2019-11-07 GnuCash IRC logs

00:06:25 *** jervin has quit IRC
00:11:57 *** omnireq has quit IRC
00:11:59 *** omnireq has joined #gnucash
00:11:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v omnireq
00:24:08 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
00:27:18 *** jervin has quit IRC
00:45:04 *** bertbob has quit IRC
00:46:15 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
00:46:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
00:54:46 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
01:33:16 *** pohly has joined #gnucash
01:54:06 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
02:01:33 *** Gerd has quit IRC
02:01:47 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
02:02:41 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
02:26:48 *** giuseppef has joined #gnucash
02:27:37 *** Gerd has quit IRC
03:18:59 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
03:35:28 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
03:51:55 *** storyjesse has quit IRC
03:51:57 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
03:51:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
04:12:49 *** omnireq has quit IRC
04:14:14 *** omnireq has joined #gnucash
04:14:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v omnireq
04:28:28 *** fell has joined #gnucash
04:28:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell
04:31:18 *** bertbob has quit IRC
04:33:17 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
04:33:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o gjanssens
04:36:02 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
04:36:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
05:25:18 *** fell has quit IRC
05:25:22 *** fell_laptop has joined #gnucash
05:25:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell_laptop
05:39:46 *** Aussie_matt has joined #gnucash
05:41:36 *** fell_laptop has quit IRC
05:43:50 *** User_ has joined #gnucash
06:03:21 *** KevinDB has quit IRC
06:04:39 *** KevinDB has joined #gnucash
06:04:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v KevinDB
06:22:27 *** User_ has quit IRC
06:33:17 *** waeking1 has joined #gnucash
06:33:17 *** waeking has quit IRC
06:33:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v waeking1
06:33:18 *** waeking1 is now known as waeking
06:52:53 <mauritslamers> question: How could I add a date format to the CSV bookings import? One of my banks gives the CSV date as yyyymmdd, and that is not an option in the date format pulldown
06:56:01 *** oozer has joined #gnucash
07:09:29 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
07:10:54 *** Jimraehl1 has quit IRC
07:10:56 <mauritslamers> Also, it would be great if the CSV-import scheme would not be saved in the gnucash file. It would allow users and developers to download and share CSV format-settings for importing bookings
07:11:09 <mauritslamers> Or somehow could be imported / exported
07:12:52 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
07:18:42 <mauritslamers> gjanssens: FYI I re-requested a review on github on the PR. I think everything should be ok now.
07:42:00 *** Aussie_matt has quit IRC
08:00:20 *** boldstripe has joined #gnucash
08:01:20 <gjanssens> mauritslamers: all of the current date formats in the CSV importer depend on a separator character to reliably split into its respective parts
08:01:47 <gjanssens> yyyymmdd doesn't have one, so it would need extra code to deal with that.
08:02:13 <gjanssens> Not impossible, but just not in the current design yet
08:04:15 <gjanssens> It would need changes to the GncDate constructor to also accept your new format.
08:06:39 <gjanssens> In addition it would need a new regex added to const std::vector<GncDateFormat> GncDate::c_formats that unambiguously parses the date string
08:07:52 <gjanssens> As for saving the import schemes in the file - I think that's the right place. If you want to share them, we can provide import and export functions for them (or more generally a management interface).
08:08:15 <gjanssens> Lastly I'll get to a review hopefully this weekend.
08:08:32 <gjanssens> It's currently insanely busy around here.
08:13:58 <mauritslamers> gjanssens: thanks for the info, will have a look when I have time :-)
08:23:28 *** oozer has quit IRC
08:44:27 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
09:00:51 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
09:00:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
09:01:35 *** TommyT has joined #gnucash
09:01:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v TommyT
09:33:29 *** storyjesse has joined #gnucash
09:35:37 *** oozer has joined #gnucash
09:57:41 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
09:59:08 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
10:08:00 *** jervin has quit IRC
10:12:18 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
10:16:42 <giuseppef> Hi, is there a way to create different groups of customers, using a tag for them or similar?
10:17:42 <giuseppef> More: is there a way to register more fields for customers as TAX-ID and VAT-ID? Showing this data into invoices is compulsory in many jurisdictions
10:18:40 <mauritslamers> giuseppef: Groupings of costumers: I don't think so.
10:19:34 <mauritslamers> giuseppef: what do you mean with tax id and vat id? usually those are required for the person selling something, ie the company sending the invoices
10:20:00 <mauritslamers> So, that is why they are part of the company info
10:20:25 <mauritslamers> but if you know differently, please enlighten me :)
10:24:44 <chris> giuseppef: unfortunately the only suitable field for 'tax-id' is the 'customer-number' which you can add as 'Invoice Owner ID' in the invoice
10:27:49 <giuseppef> in EU when you make an invoice to a customer you have to write on the document its VAT-ID. This is compulsory on behalf of UE Directive 2006/112/CE art. 226 when the customers has to directly pay VAT to revenue agency (reverse charge). However many national laws for IVA require that customer's VAT-ID has to be always indicated when customer is subject to VAT, and alternatively they ask for indicate the customer TAX-ID (when customer is for example a
10:27:49 <giuseppef> phisical person without a VAT-ID)
10:28:41 <giuseppef> To indicate VAT-ID and others ID is also compulsory when electronic invoicing is in place (as in Italy for every operation, both B2B and B2C)
10:28:49 <chris> the yyyymmdd problem is handled via heuristics in qif-import: first, try the whole file import dates with yyyymmdd yyyyddmm ddmmyyyy mmddyyyy; see which strategy produces only valid dates; if only 1 works, use it; otherwise present choice to user and proceed
10:29:24 <chris> giuseppef: set the customer field 'customer number' to its tax ID
10:29:34 <chris> then you can add it in an invoice printout
10:32:45 <giuseppef> Thanks chris but this is not a solution. To make electronic invoice it is necessary to extrapolate others fields too, and them cannot be messed with internals ID's. Substantially in Italy (and everywhere in Europe for invoicing B2G) we have electronic invoice and the paper document is just for courtesy purposes.
10:33:33 <chris> what other fields?
10:33:34 <giuseppef> I think the only real solution for gnucash is to admit some personalized fields on customers' table
10:35:26 <giuseppef> chris: not always but often: the TAXID, the VATID, a code (called Recipient Code) used to let the electronic exchange sistem to deliver the invoice
10:35:45 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
10:36:57 <chris> hmm unfortunately not all customer fields are printable on the invoice. perhaps the invoice could be upgraded e.g. to include customer notes
10:39:16 *** omnireq has quit IRC
10:39:56 <giuseppef> I don't think it's enough. This would be simple to obtain just changing invoice template. The problem is that we need some fields to be extrapolated by the database to be imported in an XML file to be submitted to the electronic exchange system. That (signed) XML is the real invoice
10:41:40 <warlord> giuseppef, when the biz features were written (almost 20 years ago) these needs were not forseen. However, there is some extensibility built in, so one could add new fields. On the other hand, you could also leverage an existing field and repurpose it for your use.
10:43:16 <giuseppef> Yes warlord, this is what I was asking. How can fields be added to customers' table?
10:47:34 <warlord> writing code
10:50:11 <giuseppef> I guessed. I have seen there were a request for feature made from someone in 2007 to add custom fields to table. I'm not a C guru, but I will look into the code to see what can be done by mysqlf. Thanks
10:51:07 <giuseppef> 2011, sorry.: https://gnucash.uservoice.com/forums/101223-feature-request/suggestions/1951947-user-defined-fields-attributes
10:56:05 <chris> "to see what can be done by *mysqlf." (*)interesting word :)
11:03:11 <giuseppef> just a typing error, sorry (not sure my mysql skills are useful here)
11:05:33 *** ArtGravity has joined #gnucash
11:05:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v ArtGravity
11:08:19 <warlord> One would have to add the fields in GncAddress, in the UI, and in the backends
11:08:28 <warlord> That SHOULD be sufficient..
11:10:14 *** omnireq has joined #gnucash
11:10:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v omnireq
11:14:23 *** warlord has quit IRC
11:27:10 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
11:30:02 *** guak has joined #gnucash
11:30:47 *** storyjesse has quit IRC
11:30:59 *** lmat has quit IRC
11:31:05 *** lmat has joined #gnucash
11:46:10 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
12:03:06 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
12:08:16 *** boldstripe has quit IRC
12:15:35 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
12:17:36 *** fell_laptop has joined #gnucash
12:17:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fell_laptop
12:18:10 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
12:23:33 *** oozer has quit IRC
12:27:53 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
12:27:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
12:34:38 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
13:01:33 <jralls> mauritslamers: Yes, javascript is possible. We use javascript to generate graphs. chris is the expert on the details.
13:04:00 <jralls> mauritslamers: We don't use the native print dialog because Gtk and by extension WebKitGtk doesn't. Google has the resources available to write a stand-alone native GUI for Chrome, as does the Mozilla Foundation for Firefox. We don't, having only a small handful of part-time volunteer developers.
13:07:30 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
13:07:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
13:32:22 *** calvinct has joined #gnucash
13:39:00 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
13:41:00 *** JayC has quit IRC
13:47:03 *** JayC has joined #gnucash
13:47:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v JayC
14:10:05 *** frakturfreak has joined #gnucash
14:10:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v frakturfreak
14:13:27 *** TommyT has quit IRC
14:21:17 *** sbluhm has joined #gnucash
14:21:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sbluhm
14:29:55 *** Gerd has quit IRC
14:31:16 <jralls> gjanssens, warlord, I discovered how to change the Windows inactivity time out (https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-other_settings/windows-10-pc-goes-to-lock-screen-after-2-minutes/d43aee3e-94b2-4343-803e-02a7ede7cfd2) and changed it from 2 minutes to 60 in the hope that that will allow a full build without having to fiddle with the mouse constantly or restart the Ovirt session 3 times to see it through.
14:35:37 <warlord> Oh. Wow.
14:35:39 <warlord> Cool.
14:36:05 <warlord> Also, I'm curious if the ovirt upgrade has "solved" the console timeout issue we were seeing before?
14:36:08 *** ArtGravity has quit IRC
14:38:47 *** TownsendHardware has quit IRC
14:39:31 <jralls> Nope, that's why I tried the lock-screen timeout.
14:40:29 <warlord> Ah well.
14:40:41 <warlord> I really don't know where the timeout is happening.
14:41:01 *** oozer has joined #gnucash
14:41:04 <warlord> I don't know if it is in the front end, the back end, or in the proxy itself.
14:42:53 <jralls> Well, the error I get on this end is (RemoteViewer-bin:53890): GSpice-CRITICAL **: spice_inputs_key_press: assertion `SPICE_CHANNEL(channel)->priv->state != SPICE_CHANNEL_STATE_UNCONNECTED' failed
14:43:32 <jralls> I suppose it's possible that the timeout is in remote viewer.
14:44:51 <warlord> Maybe, but I feel like I didn't have the timeout before I added the proxy
14:46:03 <warlord> Although without the proxy nobody outside my network would be able to reach the console ;)
14:46:11 <jralls> It's been there since you started using ovirt. ISTR (though it's been quite a while now) that the old VMWare-based server had a much longer one.
14:46:54 <warlord> Did it? I dont remember losing console access on the old vmware server, but it's been a long long while.
14:46:54 <jralls> But it was also running XP, which IIRC defaulted to no timeout at all as long as one turned off the screen saver.
14:47:10 <warlord> Except for like 2 missing admin features, I like ovirt.
14:47:23 <jralls> What are the admin features?
14:48:32 <warlord> Basically auto-starting VMs and having an order to that startup sequence.
14:48:49 <jralls> I dislike one thing about the new UI: The single dropdown menu with choices to kill the VM and start a spice session right next to each other.
14:49:13 <warlord> Hmm.. That's a pretty poor UX decision
14:49:28 <jralls> No bleep.
14:49:53 <warlord> How many times have you killed the VM?
14:52:21 <jralls> Haven't yet, but it still makes me nervous.
14:53:06 * warlord nods
14:53:21 <warlord> I can supply a bug report.
14:53:33 <warlord> Or you can, if you have a RedHat BZ acct
14:55:50 <jralls> I don't have an RH account. I'm amused that RH didn't move to Gitlab along with Gnome. Maybe because Gitlab wanted money from RH but was (very) happy to give Gnome a free ride.
14:56:14 <warlord> Probably.
14:56:27 <warlord> Also, I think RH wants to control their own destiny (sort of like us)
14:58:21 <jralls> Gnome is hosting their Gitlab instance so they still control their destiny, and since they provide a lot of prestige Gitlab worked pretty closely with them to provide most of the features they wanted.
14:59:23 <warlord> Hmm. interesting.
15:00:17 *** TownsendHardware has joined #gnucash
15:02:11 <jralls> The PR/issue integration is nice, but after a year and a half I still think BZ is a much better bug tracker. They've done heroic things with labels but the flow still isn't there and search is a bit arcane.
15:02:35 <warlord> ok
15:03:20 <mauritslamers> warlord: would changing the structs cause issues in reading and writing gnucash files?
15:03:47 <warlord> mauritslamers, yep.
15:04:28 <mauritslamers> might be another reason to switch to something like sqlite for files on disk?
15:04:31 <warlord> Depending on how you store it, you could have data loss going back to an older version and then coming forward again.
15:05:06 <warlord> That would not necessarily help.. If an older version is unaware, then File -> Save As wont know to store it.
15:05:16 <warlord> (again, depending on how you store the fields)
15:06:43 <jralls> mauritslamers: Let's clarify that a bit: Changing the XML elements will break reading the file back in. Each element (or DB table field) is explicitly loaded and unloaded in the backend. Adding something to a C struct won't get it persisted and won't affect save or load.
15:09:18 <jralls> In the DB new fields will just be ignored in a read from an older versions.
15:09:22 <mauritslamers> so, what is the default back end then for writing files to disk? Trying to open the .gnucash files as xml doesn't work :-)
15:09:43 <mauritslamers> I gathered from warlords response that gnucash is writing c structs to disk
15:09:46 <warlord> mauritslamers, by default it is compressed.
15:09:54 <warlord> gunip it and you'll see the XML
15:09:57 <warlord> gunzip
15:09:57 <mauritslamers> ah, that explains :)
15:23:23 *** calvinct has quit IRC
15:31:46 *** jonp has joined #gnucash
15:59:22 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
16:00:03 <mauritslamers> just curious: with XML I would expect that some kind of DOM is used which holds the content, even if it doesn't know what it is, allows updates to it and then write it back out with the changes.
16:01:15 <mauritslamers> that should not cause issues with lemmas that are not understood, they simply would be ignored. But that is then not the way GnuCash uses XML?
16:06:07 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
16:08:25 *** calvinct has joined #gnucash
16:11:01 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
16:13:00 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
16:18:07 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
16:22:26 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
16:23:36 *** MarkFirewhal has quit IRC
16:27:46 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
16:34:12 *** MarkFirewhal has joined #gnucash
16:48:40 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
16:48:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Unhammer
16:52:41 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
16:55:48 *** sbluhm has quit IRC
16:57:02 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
16:59:30 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
17:01:16 *** Gerd has joined #gnucash
17:03:35 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
17:05:19 *** pohly has quit IRC
17:10:04 *** oozer has quit IRC
17:12:52 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
17:12:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Unhammer
17:16:50 *** frakturfreak has quit IRC
17:17:23 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
17:23:00 *** Mechtilde has joined #gnucash
17:35:22 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
17:35:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Unhammer
17:37:47 *** jervin has joined #gnucash
17:39:24 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
17:41:07 *** Mechtilde has quit IRC
17:48:47 *** warlord has quit IRC
17:49:31 *** calvinct has quit IRC
17:52:13 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
17:52:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Unhammer
17:53:30 *** oozer has joined #gnucash
17:55:20 *** boldstripe has joined #gnucash
17:56:16 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
18:02:17 *** boldstripe has quit IRC
18:05:10 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
18:06:08 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
18:06:43 *** Gerd has quit IRC
18:10:10 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
18:16:10 *** oozer has quit IRC
18:18:45 *** oozer has joined #gnucash
18:37:07 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
18:37:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Unhammer
18:42:05 *** fell_laptop is now known as fell
18:45:48 *** jervin has quit IRC
18:58:38 *** kael has joined #gnucash
18:58:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v kael
19:02:56 *** blaztek has joined #gnucash
19:03:33 *** kael has quit IRC
19:03:55 *** blaztek has quit IRC
19:04:06 *** blaztek has joined #gnucash
19:06:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v blaztek
19:09:22 *** kael has joined #gnucash
19:09:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v kael
19:10:51 *** blaztek has quit IRC
19:16:19 *** KevinDB has quit IRC
19:16:43 *** blaztek has joined #gnucash
19:20:48 *** blaztek has quit IRC
19:37:08 *** omnireq has quit IRC
19:55:53 *** kael has quit IRC
19:56:50 *** oozer has quit IRC
20:00:38 *** blaztek has joined #gnucash
20:00:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v blaztek
20:02:31 <blaztek> why is gnucash.org not working?
20:04:01 *** KevinDB has joined #gnucash
20:04:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v KevinDB
20:07:41 *** blaztek has quit IRC
20:14:12 *** bertbob has quit IRC
20:22:27 *** blaztek has joined #gnucash
20:22:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v blaztek
20:23:18 *** blaztek has left #gnucash
20:23:25 *** blaztek has joined #gnucash
20:23:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v blaztek
20:56:32 *** guak has quit IRC
21:15:28 *** bertbob has joined #gnucash
21:15:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bertbob
21:49:39 *** boldstripe has joined #gnucash
22:51:10 *** omnireq has joined #gnucash
23:47:32 *** pohly1 has joined #gnucash
23:49:24 *** boldstripe has quit IRC
23:50:19 *** boldstripe has joined #gnucash