2019-10-31 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:14:12 <gjanssens> .
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06:34:13 <warlord> .
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07:14:58 <mauritslamers> chf: I considered to write a new manual in the wiki, but my experience with the wiki is not great to be honest.
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07:15:26 <mauritslamers> Imagining myself as a simple user I wouldn't probably be able to find my way around
07:16:38 <mauritslamers> so, for the moment I will use github pages, but that is simply to get it done. Later on, it can always be moved or added.
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11:57:27 <chris> gjanssens or jralls_ off sleep now, on master: ninja check passes however ninja distcheck fails on test-engine dunno why
11:58:44 <chris> "Could not find executable /home/chris/sources/code/build/bin/test-engine"
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14:17:53 <jralls> @tell Robert847 make sure that you have the splash screen turned on in preferences>general. No splash screen means that GnuCash has nothing to display while its starting up and loading your file.
14:17:53 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
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14:37:24 <jralls> chris: distcheck master worked for me just now on Debian buster. Do you have local changes or were you building code's current HEAD?
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16:07:45 <jralls> chris: A question for you on the number-range option: There are two uses where it's floating-point: For the 'borderWidth html attribute in net-charts.scm (that attribute is hard-coded in balance-forecast.scm, the only other place it's used) and for setting the "reserve" and "target" lines in balance-forecast.scm.
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16:20:49 <jralls> The first one is OK, I guess, though I wonder if it's worth it to implement for the one use-case. The second, where the range is +/- 10E9 with a step size of .01, strikes me as insane. I held the + button for 10 seconds and got all the way to 8.52. Granted that one can type into the box, but when it's required to get a reasonable number even having the spinner seems silly.
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16:29:39 <jralls> There's also the matter of the line not taking account of the currency: 10E9 is a big number in major currencies, not so much in some others (in Indonesian Rupiah it's only US$712719.80, nevermind the old Zimbabwe dollar that was over 1trn to the USD). At the other end of the spectrum .01 BTC is about $92 at today's quote.
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17:51:22 <mauritslamers> As annouced a few days ago, I started to combine my experiences with gnucash and the accoo.nl manual into a new manual in Dutch. chf suggested to to write it in a to-be-created dutch section of the wiki. As I don't have rights to create it, and because I think that the wiki is currently not very beginner-friendly, I decided to use github pages for now. The url is https://mauritslamers.github.io/boekhouden-met-gnucash/. I would really appreci
17:51:22 <mauritslamers> some feedback if anyone has a bit of time to spare.
17:51:46 <mauritslamers> (I have to fix issues with images still, but screenshots are coming(
17:52:42 <jralls> mauritslamers: Have you considered translating the Tutorial and Concepts Guide instead?
17:54:23 <mauritslamers> jralls: I might have a go at that later. The reason for me was partly that I really liked the manual I originally used to learn (and still am learning to do) bookkeeping, but that it hasn't been updated to changes in the dutch tax situation
17:54:54 <mauritslamers> Also, I was afraid that it might disappear from the internet suddenly
17:55:16 <mauritslamers> So it was both preserving as well as updating it a bit
17:55:28 <jralls> What, the tutorial or accoo.nl?
17:55:47 <mauritslamers> preserving accoo.nl and bring the contents a bit more up to date
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17:57:26 <mauritslamers> Now looking at the tutorial and concepts guide
17:58:00 <mauritslamers> The first thing that hits you when opening the guide is a table of contents... perhaps it is me, but I don't find that very inviting :)
17:58:55 <mauritslamers> I have to click 4 times in four different tables of contents before I can read my first text :)
18:00:10 <jralls> Try clicking the "next>>>>" link on the upper right.
18:00:45 <mauritslamers> Yes, that is five clicks till the introduction :)
18:01:55 <mauritslamers> To me it would be better to have the TOC on the side somewhere, and simply and immediately show the introduction page.
18:02:03 <jralls> My accounting textbook has 16 pages of frontmatter before the Introduction.
18:04:52 <mauritslamers> The concepts of a book sadly don't match the one of internet pages :)
18:05:55 <jralls> It's a book that happens to be displayed as a website. There's also a PDF and two-ebook formats.
18:06:39 <mauritslamers> And the mental state of someone who bought the book and will start reading it is rather different than someone just starting business and wants a quick and easy solution to their bookkeeping
18:07:24 <mauritslamers> I am just suggesting that with a bit more accessible introduction, people might find take up using gnucash easier
18:07:36 <jralls> That said, I suppose that it would be nice to have a prettier web presentation. The canned Docbook stylesheets do what you see, but someone with time and knowledge of that stuff could certainly do better.
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18:09:08 <jralls> A person starting a business needs an experienced book keeper or accountant to help them. The downside of screwing up ones books is rather large.
18:10:19 <mauritslamers> jralls: it depends I think. There are many one-person-businesses around which do not have complex bookkeeping needs
18:10:51 <jralls> Oh yeah they do. They just don't know it until the tax folks come along with a summons.
18:11:28 <mauritslamers> Perhaps the dutch tax system is lenient, but sooo many people here do the bookkeeping with excel
18:11:55 <mauritslamers> simply a list of invoices, VAT and that is sort of it.
18:12:58 <jralls> One can do just fine with spreadsheets *if you know what you're doing*. But if you don't know what you're doing and don't set up your VAT accounting correctly you'll find yourself in trouble.
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18:14:48 <mauritslamers> I completely agree that you can get into trouble, that is why a good manual for the dutch tax system is important. The Accoo.nl one was written by a bookkeeper.
18:15:26 <mauritslamers> In any case, if these people currently working in Excel can be invited to use something like gnucash + the little tutorial instead, these people are already less likely to run into trouble.
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18:16:01 <mauritslamers> It was also why I was happy with the accoo.nl manual, because it taught me how to do this properly.
18:16:12 <jralls> But you say that it's out of date. So you could try to teach yourself using it and still get into trouble. But if you get a professional to guide you then keeping up to date is on them.
18:16:29 <mauritslamers> I said it was out of date because the tax tariffs changed
18:16:40 <mauritslamers> the tax system itself is exactly the same
18:17:22 <jralls> That's a nice change. In the US the government is constantly tweaking the tax rules.
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18:18:09 <jralls> The Brits on gnucash-user complain about their government doing the same.
18:18:57 <mauritslamers> The Dutch tax system in that sense is easier, as it forces the tax services to make things not complex
18:19:49 <mauritslamers> We have an online tax filing system with complete guides and help texts.
18:19:55 <mauritslamers> To be used for free
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18:20:35 <mauritslamers> IIRC that was also tried in the states, but there the tax filing companies managed to get it blocked or something similar
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18:21:39 <jralls> Yup, they sure do. There are a lot of people making a lot of money off of the complexity in the US tax system.
18:22:37 <mauritslamers> In any case, I still want my manual to be checked by a real accountant to make sure things are done proper. Until now, I am mostly rewriting the text as I found it on accoo.nl
18:23:09 <jralls> Good plan.
18:27:36 <mauritslamers> I also have a bit of hope that there are also a few dutch accountants in the gnucash community who would look at it :-)
18:30:40 <jralls> If there are they haven't made themselves known. A few Dutch speakers have popped up from time to time on the mailing lists, but they haven't stuck around and I think that they've mostly had pretty basic questions.
18:32:05 <jralls> gjanssens is Flemish and while he does the bookkeeping for his family's business he's not a licensed accountant. I think that like me his formal training is just a couple of courses at Uni.
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23:57:47 <karelk> I am using MariaDB as backend for gnucash
23:58:34 <karelk> I would like to use simple SQL query to list all expenses for the last month
23:59:14 <karelk> any examples ?