2019-10-27 GnuCash IRC logs

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06:22:09 <mauritslamers> What is the way to test the translation in a freshly compiled gnucash? I tried ```LANG=nl_NL.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=nl_NL.UTF-8 bin/gnucash```but nothing seems to make it want to use anything else than english
06:23:03 <mauritslamers> system is a dutch Kubuntu 18.04, the package installed gnucash translates as intended
06:29:00 <warlord> mauritslamers, Try: env LANG=..... gnucash
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06:30:12 <mauritslamers> warlord: sadly, no
06:30:17 <mauritslamers> doesn't work either.
06:30:51 <mauritslamers> the terminal settings are already correct in any case (lang + language both set to nl_NL.UTF-8) but to no avail
06:31:56 <warlord> Do you have something set in /etc/gnucash/environment* ?
06:32:37 <mauritslamers> nothing set related to languages
06:33:26 <mauritslamers> because I would expect then that the package installed through the package manager would have the same "issue", or should I try setting something there?
06:36:56 <mauritslamers> nothing in ./build/etc/gnucash/environment neither btw
06:42:05 <warlord> Right, the default shouldn't do anything, but you might have installed one that did.
06:42:27 <warlord> Is nl_NL.UTF-8 a valid locale for your system?
06:42:40 <mauritslamers> yes
06:42:50 <mauritslamers> even reran sudo locale-gen
06:42:54 <warlord> This is Linux?
06:42:57 <mauritslamers> yes
06:43:05 <warlord> (sorry, it's 6:42am here so still a little tired)
06:43:22 <mauritslamers> warlord: np :) very glad you're helping out :) no worries :)
06:43:26 <warlord> Huh. What Distro?
06:43:32 <mauritslamers> Kubuntu 18.04
06:44:15 <warlord> It works for me on Fedora 29
06:44:26 <mauritslamers> running `env` gives the list of exports, which shows nl_NL.UTF-8 for both LANG and LANGUAGE
06:44:27 <warlord> env LANG=nl_NL.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=nl_NL.UTF8 /usr/bin/gnucash --nofile
06:44:55 <warlord> And gnucash came up in dutch.
06:45:28 <mauritslamers> not for me
06:45:46 <mauritslamers> NB: this is a freshly compiled version of gnucash
06:45:59 <mauritslamers> so, in /home/user/development/gnucash/.build/
06:46:41 <warlord> mauritslamers, oh, you can't run it out of the build dir. You have to install it.
06:46:48 <warlord> Otherwise it can't find the .mo files
06:47:21 <mauritslamers> ah. ok.
06:59:27 <warlord> so working now?
06:59:56 <mauritslamers> didn't try yet, have to go now, will try later. Thanks for the help! :)
07:00:09 <warlord> good luck. Have a great day.
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07:17:48 <fell> Why is warlord no op?
07:19:27 <fell> When ends daylightspoiling at the east coast?
07:21:39 <warlord> fell, because I didn't identify to gncbot or nickserv.
07:21:49 <warlord> US DST ends next week.
07:21:57 <warlord> Yours ended last night, right?
07:22:02 <fell> yep
07:29:08 <warlord> I'm going to upgrade the ovirt engine today...
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09:21:14 <warlord> .
09:28:07 <warlord> chris, FYI, unless there is another report that will list all customers and their addresses, the aging report was the best one to use to do that.
09:31:31 <chris> uh ok
09:39:25 <chris> my next trick may be to merge stylesheets-easy/fancy/footer into one
09:39:29 <warlord> Just letting you know... since I saw your message about removing it.
09:40:10 <chris> np can reintroduce... still beta'ing
09:41:23 <warlord> NP
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09:57:36 <fell> warlord: I have no problem with the ovirt update.
09:58:18 <warlord> fell, great.
09:58:23 <warlord> I've already started it. ;)
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10:03:42 <chris> previous aging.scm 30K new-aging.scm 12K...
10:08:31 <chris> (after culling the owner-addresses tho)
10:22:59 <warlord> ok
10:29:38 <warlord> grr.. it failed to download a GPG key so backed out of the upgrade. *I* could download it manually. grump.
10:40:36 <warlord> Okay, second time through it pulled it down correctly.
10:54:34 <warlord> But then it failed in a POSTUN script. If it fails again in the same spot I'm going to have to email for help.
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11:58:14 <warlord> google to the rescue.. seems to be a bug in the script.
11:58:34 <warlord> luckily a workaround exists.
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12:10:51 <warlord> Hit another snag, but I can work around that.
12:11:57 <warlord> (6th time's the charm?)
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13:40:29 <warlord> Okay, upgraded to 7.6 / 4.2.8
13:40:34 <warlord> Next: 7.7 / 4.3.5
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13:43:36 <TheDcoder> Hi
13:44:24 <TheDcoder> I see that my copy of Gnu Cash only has a single category of default accounts in the new account setup...
13:44:45 <TheDcoder> and that is "GST Indian Business"
13:45:00 <TheDcoder> I am in India, so does the locale have something to do with it?
13:45:10 <TheDcoder> I was hoping for something more regular and basic...
13:45:27 <TheDcoder> I am on Fedora and I got GnuCash from the official repositories
13:47:33 <jralls> Yes, the default account selections are determined by locale and that's the only one that's been contributed for India. You can start GnuCash from the command line as LANG=en_GB.UTF8 to get the UK ones, which is a more complete set.
13:47:54 <TheDcoder> Thanks jralls
13:48:39 <jralls> NP, and that command-line should be LANG=en_GB.UTF8 gnucash
13:49:23 <TheDcoder> got it, I manually set the env variable in my shell before running gnucash
13:49:33 <jralls> That will also make the default currency GBP so be sure to change it to INR in the New File Hierarchy assistant.
13:49:54 <TheDcoder> Would everything be okay if I start GnuCash with my default locale after the account setup?
13:50:30 <jralls> Yes, once the book is set up you can go back to your default locale.
13:50:50 <TheDcoder> Very nice, now I can see all the nice categories :)
13:51:03 <TheDcoder> Why not make some of the common categories locale-agnostic?
13:51:20 <jralls> fell, would it make sense to copy the en_GB accounts into en_IN?
13:52:07 <fell> jralls: I would prefer to link them, if that would be possible.
13:52:15 <TheDcoder> maybe even given an option for the user to choose their locale manually, so that any one who is travelling internationally can choose an appropriate option without manually forcing a locale with environment :)
13:52:25 <jralls> TheDcoder because they're not. For one thing, the account names need to be in the appropriate language.
13:52:57 <TheDcoder> I see... maybe we need a common set of categories which is in normal english language instead of accountant speak ;)
13:53:59 <jralls> We've discussed replacing the selection based on the environment locale with a selection in the UI, but nobody's taken on writing it.
13:54:02 <TheDcoder> Last time I tried GnuCash with the "GST Indian Business" preset, I was very overwheled and eventually turned to other alternative programs (which were nowhere near as comprehensive as GnuCash)
13:55:06 <TheDcoder> For now, the categories from the UK locale look good enough to me... probably because we have british influence
13:55:34 <jralls> GnuCash is focussed on formal accounting. There are a few accommodations for beginners, but you really need to be familiar with accounting, including accountant-speak, to go past the basics.
13:55:46 <TheDcoder> I see...
13:56:50 <jralls> That goes double for businesses, which need the person keeping the books to be well enough versed in formal accounting to stay out of trouble with the government.
13:57:20 <TheDcoder> Maybe one day we can make GnuCash suitable for the average joe as well... money management is a good skill to have, especially when you want to track all of your expenses and have limited options to do so without programs like GnuCash
13:57:48 <jralls> There are other applications for "the average joe". We often recommend KMyMoney.
13:58:03 <TheDcoder> Is that an endeavour from KDE?
13:58:50 <jralls> It uses KDE for its GUI. I don't know if they're formally part of KDE or just use the name, like us and GNU.
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14:00:54 <TheDcoder> KMyMoney seems to be formally a part of KDE, and it doesn't look much user-friendly than GnuCash
14:01:53 <TheDcoder> Even though I am using KDE Plasma as my DE, I tend to avoid programs part of the KDE suite because often they are buggy and have some behaviours that I'd rather not have in a program... I like my programs to be independent from each other :)
14:02:02 <jralls> For what value of "user friendly"?
14:02:20 <TheDcoder> Most of the GUI and the terms they are using look the same in the screenshots that I have looked at
14:02:31 <TheDcoder> GnuCash doesn't look much different
14:04:32 <jralls> Sorry, that doesn't make sense. What does appearance have to do with user friendliness?
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14:05:55 <TheDcoder> I guess it doesn't, but I feel like it is not much different from GnuCash. But thanks for the suggestion, I will check it out if I feel like GnuCash is too complex for me
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14:06:30 <TheDcoder> Part of the reason why I am trying out GnuCash again is that I now want to be able to do some basic invoicing to my client...
14:10:26 <jralls> Well, if you have a client then you're in business and presumably subject to GST so the Indian GST accounts are probably what you need. You'll either need to learn accounting or get a bookkeeper to do it for you.
14:12:14 <TheDcoder> Oh no, actually I am a freelancer so I don't really deal with all the taxes related to business companies :)
14:12:29 <TheDcoder> I only pay personal income tax
14:12:52 <TheDcoder> I don't own or run any establishment or other business entities
14:15:03 <fell> You could also start with the GST template and mark unused accounts write prodtected and hidden.
14:15:59 <TheDcoder> fell: I tried to do the same previously, but it just got too overwhelming and the base structure was not suitable for my needs, so I quit
14:16:00 <fell> I personally dislike the common accounts.
14:16:23 <TheDcoder> The common accounts from the UK locale is pretty reasonable when compared to the GST present
14:17:06 <TheDcoder> fell: Do you dislike it when using GnuCash for personal finances or are you talking about business finances?
14:18:03 <fell> Also for income tax it is not very well structured - at least for Germany.
14:22:15 <TheDcoder> I see
14:22:37 <TheDcoder> I assume you have well structured categories for income tax in the Germany locale
14:22:38 <fell> However, choose that which is closer to your purpose. You can later move or add accounts as required.
14:23:09 <TheDcoder> Thanks, I already chose the common accounts, and I like them quite well :)
14:23:42 <TheDcoder> they roughly resemble the mental picture I wanted to paint in my account book
14:24:56 <fell> May I ask from which region are?
14:25:09 <fell> you
14:25:33 <TheDcoder> India
14:25:44 <fell> inside IN
14:25:58 <TheDcoder> I am in the southern part
14:26:07 <TheDcoder> why ask? :)
14:26:37 <TheDcoder> There aren't many differences legal wise across regions in India
14:26:49 <fell> Mumbai was the southest point of my traveling.
14:27:05 <TheDcoder> It is a popular tourist destination
14:27:23 <TheDcoder> Hyderabad or Bangalore would be more near to me
14:27:48 <fell> My indian home city is Pushkar (RJ).
14:28:01 <TheDcoder> "Indian Home City"?
14:28:31 <fell> I traveled over a decade to India.
14:28:33 <TheDcoder> Are you from India?
14:28:42 <TheDcoder> Oh, so you live here :)
14:29:13 <TheDcoder> Rajastan is nice, I would like to visit it someday (as well as all the other states in India)
14:29:24 <TheDcoder> I live in AP
14:29:30 <TheDcoder> Andhra Pradesh
14:29:49 <TheDcoder> Near the cost
14:29:51 <TheDcoder> *coast
14:30:44 <fell> I like the coast (and the desert).
14:32:05 <TheDcoder> It gets very humid... which means it always feels hotter and you keep sweating!
14:32:44 <TheDcoder> I have personally never been to a desert, but I imagine temperature fluctuations are more pronounced there
14:33:01 <warlord> jralls, FYI, I did half the upgrade. But I've timed out for now. I'll continue the upgrade later this afternoon / evening.
14:33:54 <jralls> warlord: Is the ovirt server fully operational?
14:33:59 <fell> Between 0°C at sunrise and 50°C in the noon - in january.
14:34:13 <TheDcoder> fell: Wow...
14:34:42 <TheDcoder> In the coast we are always stuck between 30 and 40 degrees most of the year
14:34:56 <TheDcoder> In winter it can go as low as 25 C
14:35:09 <warlord> jralls, well, the server is operational. Dunno is you can login or not. I haven't tried. But I need to leave right this minute
14:35:23 <jralls> OK.
14:35:25 <TheDcoder> I think we have had 50 C temperature in the summer from a few years ago, but it is generally in the 40s
14:35:52 <TheDcoder> so it obviously gets a lot mucky in the summer, that is why an AC is a must have if you want to sleep peacefully
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14:38:58 <fell> I recently read from a village in central Australia, where they build underground to have constantous 25′C
14:39:32 <TheDcoder> Sounds like a reasonable temperature to live in, especially in Australia's desert in the middle :)
14:41:25 <TheDcoder> fell: May I ask what made you settle in India? Was it a spiritual journey or was it just because of a job? :)
14:43:18 <fell> Both.
14:43:44 <fell> And the nice people.
14:44:25 <fell> Here they are more rich, but ways less happy.
14:44:30 <TheDcoder> Good to hear
14:44:49 <TheDcoder> Indeed, seems to be the way in foreign countries
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14:45:23 <TheDcoder> You might have missed a message from me, I sent it at the same moment as when you quit
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14:47:12 <fell> I read the logs, after the WLAN hickhup
14:48:06 <TheDcoder> okay, no worries
14:48:19 <parsnip> test
14:48:37 <TheDcoder> fell: It has been nice talking to you, but it is late (as you may have guessed by looking at the time)
14:48:58 <TheDcoder> I should go to bed now, and continue my experiments later tomorrow.
14:48:59 <fell> yaeh, sleeep well!
14:49:06 <TheDcoder> thanks, you too, bye!
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14:49:17 <fell> bye!
14:49:59 <parsnip> hi, i usually hang out on #plaintextaccounting, but am checking out this channel, as i suspect ledger-cli may have inherited some practices from GnuCash.
14:51:06 <parsnip> i've been accruing notes on the concept of equity, as used by these softwares.
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14:55:09 <fell> At least old versions of ledger-cli were able to read gnucashs xml files.
14:58:31 <fell> And here is the concept behind: https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_basics.html
14:59:38 <parsnip> right, i had struggled a little with static vs dynamic, but i think i've come to terms with it.
15:00:22 <parsnip> i think static is sort of, "at the end of a period, i.e., if you've closed the books".
15:01:19 <parsnip> and i sort of struggled to understand that in some sense, income and expenses should be sub accounts to equity, and in another sense, their dynamic state is kept as top level accounts for convenience.
15:01:20 <fell> There a 2 basic questions: How rich am I (at point t)
15:01:58 <parsnip> *temporarily
15:02:05 <fell> and How successfull have I been (in period t0 to t1)
15:03:02 <parsnip> you mean if you close the books, equity is how rich i am?
15:03:21 <parsnip> and if you haven't closed the books, then income - expenses is how well i'm doing lately?
15:03:54 <parsnip> (note that plain text accounting just flips the sign on the credit accounts)
15:04:01 <fell> The balance sheet tells you, how rich you have been at a specific date
15:04:33 <parsnip> by balance sheet, you mean, assets, liabilites, and (assets - liabilities)?
15:04:56 <parsnip> i don't know if gnucash does this automatically with some button.
15:05:24 <parsnip> like if you click a "balance sheet" button, does GnuCash implicitly close the books?
15:05:46 <parsnip> i have a VM with GnuCash running, i'll check
15:06:59 <fell> and Income & Expense or profit & loss reports tell you how successful you have been in a period.
15:07:29 <parsnip> right, since the last time you closed the books.
15:08:08 <fell> If you close the books P&L gets closed into equty.
15:09:19 <parsnip> we're in agreement, i guess.
15:10:01 <fell> It is not requred to close the book in Gnucash, but you can do it with "Tools->Close Book"
15:11:03 <parsnip> i would assume, if you've never closed the books, your statements will report t0 as the date of your opening balance.
15:11:47 <parsnip> further, if you've never closed the books, i would assume, "how rich am i?" would report how rich you were the day of your opening balance.
15:12:23 <parsnip> so sure, you're not require to close the books.
15:12:26 <fell> yes, but you can set every date in the report options.
15:12:38 <parsnip> ah, and then it implicitly closes the books?
15:12:53 <parsnip> oh, nm, i'm arguing about nothing now.
15:13:00 <fell> No, it filters the entries.
15:13:09 <parsnip> fair enough.
15:14:14 <fell> for P&L or sums up for the balance
15:14:19 <parsnip> i see, so your reports automatically adjust for periods, but your buckets would have to be manually closed.
15:15:01 <fell> Which buckets?
15:15:23 <parsnip> the hierarchy of accounts, and the amounts in each one.
15:16:56 <fell> Some of us - coming from the times of ink and paper - have the behaviour to close the book[, create a new for the next year, ...]
15:17:43 <fell> but it is not required by the software.
15:20:09 <jralls> parsnip: What fell is trying to explain is that GnuCash does what you called earlier a virtual close on the date of any report so there's no need to ever actually close the income & expense accounts to equity if you don't want to.
15:21:34 <jralls> For example, if you run a Balance Sheet report GnuCash will sum up all of your income and expense account balances and put the net amount in a "Retained Earnings" line under Liabilities and Equity.
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15:28:07 <parsnip> nice
15:28:33 <parsnip> i think beancount prefers this sort of automation
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16:26:03 <warlord> .
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16:46:08 <warlord> okay, finishing my upgrade now..
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17:04:14 <parsnip> i've been on my backup phone for a while, is shit. looking for cheap android with updated OS and fingerprint scanner. i think i'm going to get Moto E6.
17:04:23 <parsnip> oh, wrong chan
17:07:30 <warlord> heh. oops.
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18:17:06 <warlord> jralls, ovirt engine upgrades complete. Should all be up and running now.
18:19:49 <jralls> warlord: OK, I can log in. Figured out how to ask for a console, but when I do it tells me it's in use and asks if I want to continue. Is that expected?
18:22:57 <warlord> What if you say "yes, continue"?
18:23:16 <warlord> It's possible someone had a console open before..
18:23:56 <warlord> I didn't try accessing any consoles.
18:27:04 <jralls> I got in OK. The mouse was really laggy on the login screen. There's a black powershell window with a prompt, a blue one that ssems stuck on building hello-world.go, and a task manager window.
18:27:30 <jralls> Task manager shows guile is hung so I'll kill it.
18:30:40 <jralls> Looks like somethings broken in the docs build as well, "Entity 'appname' not defined". I'll clean up the extra windows and let that finish on it's own. I'll also do a check build in my local VM to see if there's actually a problem.
18:32:23 <jralls> Oh, this is nice: I can switch between your VM and mine without crashing spice!
18:38:34 <warlord> What do you mean, "between your VM and mine"?
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18:47:49 <jralls> With the old ovirt if i tried to use my local Win10 VM while I had an open session on ovirt, RemoteApplicationViewer would crash. That didn't happen just now, I could switch back-and-forth between them.
18:55:18 <warlord> Ah! okay. Cool!
18:58:37 <warlord> I'll upgrade the ovirt host from 4.1 to 4.3 after I move the machine, because I need to take all the VMs down to upgrade, and I also need to take them all down to move the machine -- so might as well do it all at the same time.
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19:09:58 <jralls> Seems reasonable. Have you got a machine-move-in date set yet?
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19:30:53 <warlord> nope. As of earlier this week I still didn't have power to my racks, yet. Not to mention that the racks aren't currently in their correct locations. Then I need to actually install everything.
19:31:00 <warlord> ... and trace all the wires i nthe house.
19:31:07 <warlord> (because I doubt they are labeled)
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20:19:05 <brucemuggins> Greetings. I am trying to automate some processes using bash scripts. I have heard that it used to be possible to get reports from gnucash from the shell, but that it may not be possible anymore. It would be great if I could also put info INTO gnucash this way.
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