2019-10-26 GnuCash IRC logs

00:03:19 * chris suggests merging all stylesheets together
00:03:46 <chris> looks like:
00:03:49 <chris> plain -> basic
00:05:06 <chris> easy/footer = plain + basic additions eg centering, bgcolor etc
00:05:16 <chris> easy/*fancy = plain + basic additions eg centering, bgcolor etc
00:05:27 <chris> (easy/fancy are identical)
00:05:33 <chris> footer = easy + footer
00:05:49 <chris> head-or-tail = easy + footer + header
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00:58:40 <fell> chris: If a footer section gots integrated in the basic layout, you can obvisious remove the footer stylesheet.
01:00:41 <fell> A user had published it by email and I thought, it is a good idea, but didn't want to break anything in the existing stylesheets.
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02:04:25 <asante> jralls: I thought these are optional? (indeed, I installed them..)
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04:46:30 <chris> fell it's not as easy as just removing a stylesheet... the previous reference must be mapped onto the super-stylesheet so that all saved reports still work
04:47:34 <fell> Chris, I feared something of this kind. So I left it for you. ;-)
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04:50:51 <chris> gjanssens if you're here for bug 797468 my refactored-aging-report does not show bad-url because the logic has been overhauled
04:51:11 <chris> after all a prepayment shouldn't be present in the aging report IMHO
05:02:34 <chris> fell if you're running maint can you check basic reports ? something gone weird in my report colours
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05:05:22 <fell> chris, sorry, I am currently in a session to change almost all xml files in the docs.
05:49:04 <chris> i found it -- upgraded to ubuntu 19.10, adwaita-dark now makes the default font white-on-white
05:52:07 <chris> I'm not sure how others want to play it..... IMNSHO the merged job-owner reports and refactored-aging reports are better and cleaner, but less tested than current reports. I can't test 100%. but I can fix my bugs if they're merged for 4.0.
06:05:30 <gjanssens> chris: I don't really know about prepayments and aging reports. The other accounting package I use does take prepayments into account in the aging report
06:05:46 <gjanssens> A customer can have both a positive and a negative balance in here.
06:05:55 <gjanssens> *there
06:06:23 <chris> ah but which bucket does the prepayment belong to
06:07:08 <chris> (aside: I can't 100% exhaustively test everything in the business reports- so, merge as-is, or merge into Experimental submenu?)
06:08:36 <chris> (I could create the owner-report & aging-report into experimental submenu, and over time switch experimental vs mainstream... and eventually obsolete the old business reports)
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06:23:34 <gjanssens> FTR I never have used gnucash' aging reports so I'm not too familiar with them
06:25:25 <gjanssens> Two approaches come to mind: 1. a prepayment would be applied to the open buckets, oldest bucket first.
06:25:46 <gjanssens> 2. it could be applied to the bucket in which the payment date falls.
06:26:22 <gjanssens> I'm not sure what make more sense or what makes the report most useful.
06:26:59 <gjanssens> Personally I would be most interested in seeing which invoices are not fully paid and which payments are not applied.
06:27:29 <chris> ^ This is easily done in my supercharged owner-report
06:27:29 <gjanssens> I don't think the aging report gives me that. It's owner oriented instead.
06:27:59 <gjanssens> Which is nice :)
06:28:03 <chris> Yeah IMO aging-report is an overview of 'customers-not-paying-up'
06:28:21 <chris> and owner-report is a detailed query of owner-objects
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06:28:55 <chris> so personally aging-report shouldn't need to show prepayments
06:29:25 <gjanssens> On the contraray, to me that confirms aging should take prepayments into account otherwise your end balance would not match
06:30:16 * chris confused now
06:30:53 <gjanssens> Well, in the receivable aging report you want to know how much a customer still owes you
06:31:22 <gjanssens> If you skip prepayments, you may think the customer owes you more than he really does
06:31:31 <chris> hmm ok
06:31:50 <gjanssens> Keep in mind you may have open invoices and unapplied payments at the same time
06:32:40 <gjanssens> In aging you'd only be interested in the final amount due (though spread over a few buckets for some granularity)
06:32:56 <gjanssens> But that final amount can go both ways really
06:33:11 * chris will go rethink
06:33:17 <gjanssens> If the customer paid you too much, that's also worth glancing from the aging report
06:33:29 <chris> perhaps prepayment could get its own bucket
06:33:38 <gjanssens> Perhaps
06:33:45 <chris> or all unapplied payments
06:34:16 <gjanssens> It may be something to ask on gnucash-devel or user as well to hear from those using it more frequently
06:34:58 <chris> seems nobody cares really ;)
06:35:04 <chris> except adrien.m
06:36:09 <chris> what would you think of merging into maint/master? into experimental submenu? would a report-guid swap be on the cards later on?
06:39:19 <gjanssens> what would happen to saved reports based on such a guid if it gets switched later ?
06:39:25 <gjanssens> Are the options compatible ?
06:40:19 <chris> I'll ensure the options are compatible
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06:43:49 <chris> at most, 'newer' options have fewer redundant options, and maybe additional options to enable 'payment-links'
06:45:19 <gjanssens> Ok, then experimental on maint seems like a good place to start. With the aim to have them replace the old reports starting with 4.x.
06:46:14 <chris> :)
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07:23:23 <chris> ok if gjanssens is here, I can retrieve a prepayment-split's owner via gncOwner.c owner_from_lot static function. any objection to un-static this fn?
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07:28:55 <chris> (or maybe not, ignore above)
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07:44:35 <mauritslamers> gjanssens: thanks for the review. I am not surprised there are issues with it. My C is rather rusty. :-) So, the major changes to perform are to get rid of the parametrization and add a few translation strings, yes?
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07:47:20 <mauritslamers> Would it be an idea to then not mark the static struct with N_() but to simply put the english text as a basis, then create separate structs for the translatable strings?
07:47:56 <warlord> mauritslamers, N_() marks a string for translation without translating it immediately.
07:48:16 <mauritslamers> warlord: yes, that is what I was referring to
07:50:23 <mauritslamers> Currently, in gnucash/gnome/gnc-plugin-page-invoice.c there is a static action list, which has strings in them, marked with N_()
07:50:48 <mauritslamers> I made a PR which provides translation, but it has issues because it is parametrized.
07:51:28 <warlord> mauritslamers, I dont think you can parameterize the action list
07:51:44 <warlord> but gjanssens is the expert there
07:51:55 <mauritslamers> no, exactly
07:52:48 <mauritslamers> as I cannot do that, my question is whether I should simply use placeholder strings in that action list which are not marked with N_()
07:53:13 <mauritslamers> and instead add lists with the correct translation strings marked with N_() below
07:53:26 <mauritslamers> or to put empty strings in the action list.
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07:57:23 <warlord> Does that even work? I thought that GTK performed the _() on the action string?
07:59:07 <mauritslamers> the point is that currently there is only one string in that action list, which is the one for Invoice
07:59:23 <mauritslamers> I need to add versions for Bill and Voucher as well
07:59:53 <mauritslamers> and it would be best I think to have a single place where all of these are defined, and not dupicate the action list
08:05:05 <warlord> I understand.. I just don't know if there is really a way to do that.
08:05:57 <mauritslamers> I will simply check and see :)
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08:23:07 <gjanssens> mauritslamers: yes, I would recommend using placeholder strings in the static actions and use translatable string lists for substitution later
08:23:29 <mauritslamers> gjanssens: great, thanks
08:23:58 <mauritslamers> gjanssens: just to verify: does gtk provide automatic translation?
08:26:48 <mauritslamers> as in: when I set the string to the label, will gtk automatically provide the translation or should I set it through _() ?
08:31:44 <gjanssens> mauritslamers: it looks like a gtkaction will automatically translate the provided string.
08:32:00 <mauritslamers> cool, will use that then
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08:35:08 <warlord> That's what I thought was the case (that GTK will run it through _() to translate it)
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09:01:29 <mauritslamers> it doesn't look like the gnucash code depends on that though... https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/gnucash/gnome-utils/gnc-plugin.c#L248
09:01:35 <mauritslamers> (as an example)
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09:05:59 <gjanssens> mauritslamers: gnucash code isn't perfect :)
09:06:27 <gjanssens> A small experiment should give you confirmation (or reading the gtk code)
09:27:33 <mauritslamers> gjanssens: perhaps a strange question: how do I force gnucash into a different language? I am running Kubuntu 18.04 dutch, but gnucash stays in english
09:30:24 <gjanssens> mauritslamers: LANG=de_DE LANGUAGE=de_DE <path-to-gnucash>/gnucash
09:30:36 <gjanssens> replace the language with a language of your choice
09:31:23 <gjanssens> (I believe your native tongue is Dutch - like mine - so you could also use nl_NL for example)
09:33:51 <gjanssens> It's probably because you're starting from the command line and your system hasn't set up the proper locale for the console.
09:34:11 <chris> you may need LANG=de_DE.utf8 LANGUAGE=de_DE.utf8 instead though
09:34:22 <gjanssens> Right. Tx chris
09:34:25 <chris> I have a question myself SCM<->C
09:34:34 <gjanssens> Shoot :)
09:35:00 <chris> consider gncOwnerGetOwnerFromLot (*lot, *owner)
09:35:05 <chris> returns gboolean
09:36:17 <chris> if I do (let ((use-lot-owner? (gncOnwerGetOwnerFromLot lot TMPOWNER))) ...) it means, if use-lot-owner? = #t it copies owner into TMPOWNER and we can use it
09:36:52 <chris> so in SCM it means I *must* initialize TMPOWNER to be a (gncOwnerNew) first, send as argument to gncOwnerGetOwnerFromLot, and if #t I can use TMPOWNER
09:37:04 <chris> this I can understand
09:37:08 <chris> (not functional but ok)
09:37:20 <chris> the question is -- is (gncOwnerFree TMPOWNER) compulsory at all?
09:37:44 <chris> i.e. must I do some weirdness like (let ((retval TMPOWNER)) (gncOwnerFree TMPOWNER) retval) ?
09:38:14 <chris> [at the core, functional means we don't mutate arguments]
09:38:23 <gjanssens> Good question. I'll have to look into the swig wrapper code for this.
09:38:42 <gjanssens> Unfortunately our C api is not fully "functional" compatible...
09:42:45 <chris> (this is to find the prepayment splits' owners correctly)
09:43:28 <gjanssens> I think the call to gncOwnerFree call is compulsory in this case. Otherwise you would leak memory.
09:44:33 <chris> would be nice for a good wrapper then :)
09:44:39 <gjanssens> In C this can be circumvented because we can create a GncOwner variable on the stack (that is, not a pointer to a GncOwner, but directly a GncOwner) and then pass the address of that variable togncOwnerGetOwnerFromLot
09:45:00 <gjanssens> Once the function ends, the stack is cleaned up automatically
09:45:40 <gjanssens> I don't know though how you would do the same in guile. I don't think it supports some kind of "address-of-x" semantics
09:46:38 <chris> maybe i try wrap
09:47:01 <gjanssens> As for the "would be nice for a good wrapper" - the whole owner thing would be a good candidate for a rewrite in c++
09:47:26 <chris> amen
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09:49:09 <chris> I think I'll skip.
09:49:14 <chris> gncOwnerFree it is then
09:50:14 <Guest23592> hey everybody! does gnucash now support multiple accounts with different currencies?
09:50:35 <chris> it has been for the last 20 years :)
09:51:12 <Guest23592> mhm, I have a vague souvenir that back in 2009 or so it wasn't. I might be mistaken.
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09:51:51 <chris> it does not support multiple simultaneous users
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09:58:46 <Guest23592> I'm a one-man show. So no worries with that. I think I gave up back then, because I couldn't import my account data.
10:00:37 <Guest23592> ttyl
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10:17:32 <chris> gncOwnerFree/gncOwnerCopy seems to mess up memory pointers unfortunately
10:18:20 <chris> gncOwner.c owner_from_split seems a compromise, unfortunately not very well written
10:18:39 <chris> (sorry warlord)
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10:51:05 <chris> ok nearly completed adding prepayments into my aging-report. gncOwnerFree must be added here&there unfortunately.
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10:57:42 <chris> https://imgur.com/a/lnKbDYW
10:58:42 <chris> shown: stylesheets still work, negatives are red, prepayment column
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12:28:42 <jralls> asante, optional but enabled by default, so if you want to build without pass -DWITH_SQL=OFF to cmake. See the list of things to turn on or off at CMakeLists.txt line 51ff.
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12:35:09 <fell> chris: while related to my balance the report is right, at least some users might expect to see in the customers aging report the customers saldo, which would mean a sign reversal.
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13:15:35 <warlord> .
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17:06:35 <sproggit> Evening everyone...
17:07:01 <sproggit> I have a question that might relate to folder traversals and/or remote file system access...
17:07:44 <sproggit> I've just today built a brand new Mint Linux system, which has given me access to GnuCash v3.7, Build ID:3.7+(2019-09-07)...
17:08:06 <sproggit> I am afraid I don't know which version of GNUCash I was using before, but it was part of the Mint 19.1 distro...
17:08:28 <sproggit> I have my data files stored on a QNAP NAS box, linked to my workstation using NFS...
17:08:59 <sproggit> On my local workstation, I have a symbolic link in my home folder that maps to the NFS Mount location...
17:09:28 <sproggit> But when I launch GNUCash and attempt to navigate through this structure, the program seems my local symlink as a small file, not a link it can traverse.
17:09:31 <sproggit> ...
17:10:04 <sproggit> This kinda reminds me of something I saw with GNUCash quite some time ago, when I was using CIFS to mount the remote drive instead of NFS. You very kindly set me right on that occasion.
17:10:37 <sproggit> I was wondering if the issue I'm seeing when I attempt to traverse links to get to my data files is just GNUCash being careful/particular about file systems?
17:10:57 <sproggit> I'd be very grateful for any suggestions for triage - or even better, a fix...
17:11:03 <sproggit> Thank you
17:16:01 <sproggit> (Looks like my system is using nfs v3 on the client)
17:19:55 <chf> This probably isn't a Gnucash issue, since symlinks are handled by the operating systems and should be traversed transparently.
17:20:48 <chf> On the other hand, symlinks ARE just small files with the destination path as their only content.
17:20:57 <sproggit> True
17:21:19 <chf> This might be a permission issue or something alike.
17:22:31 <chf> Try accessing the link from outside of Gnucash (and any other "complicated" programme) at first, and see what's going to happen.
17:22:52 <sproggit> Thank you
17:23:03 <sproggit> First, permissions on the link file:-
17:23:16 <sproggit> lrwxrwxrwx (clive:clive)
17:23:35 <sproggit> As my user ID, I can "cd" through the symlink to access folders on the NAS, with no problem
17:23:51 <chf> On the link file, permissions are ALWAYS as above (as long as it is recognized as a link by the kernel).
17:23:51 <sproggit> I can read and write files over the symlink using i.e. LibreOffice Writer/Calc
17:24:02 <sproggit> [Ah, OK]
17:24:58 <sproggit> Being Mint, I get a default /home/user/Downloads folder, which is on the local /home partition
17:25:12 <sproggit> I copied my account file to that folder and can access it for read and write without issue
17:25:19 <sproggit> sorry
17:25:20 <chf> The real permissions are set on the destination file (the real one), and over the network, 2 layers are involved: 1) the filesystem on the box where the file is actually stored;
17:25:31 <sproggit> "account file" = GNUCash accounts...
17:25:41 <sproggit> Ah, OK
17:25:43 <chf> 2) the network filesystem, which can impose additional restrictions.
17:26:14 <sproggit> That's a QNAP NAS, locally formatted with ext4, no changes to it since I built it in about 2015 or 16
17:26:27 <sproggit> And that's likely the issue
17:26:35 <sproggit> This is a brand new Mint 19.2 build
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17:26:41 <sproggit> Prior I was using 19.1 [that ate itself]
17:26:47 <chf> I almost forgot 3) the application can be compiled to not follow symlinks, so they are probably not completely transparent.
17:26:57 <sproggit> Ah... Interesting
17:28:20 <chf> I've seen that in a game, "Warzone 2100", which issues a warning by default, if its configuration directory/file is symlinked, and it won't follow that link.
17:28:24 <sproggit> Just spotted 2 interesting things...
17:28:47 <sproggit> Firstly, in Mint's "Software Manager" there are in fact 2 different versions of GNUCash listed...
17:29:12 <sproggit> The first is listed as "GNUCash"; the second as "GNUCash (Flathub)"
17:29:49 <sproggit> I compared versions between these two and spotted that the Flathub version was much, much more recent, so installed that.
17:29:59 <sproggit> I haven't yet tried the other alternative...
17:30:14 <sproggit> The second thing is much more weird
17:30:41 <chf> Yes, because the stable version 3.7 does not provide european "PSD2" functionality, e.g. german FinTS online banking is broken.
17:30:48 <sproggit> If I ask for a longhand listing of my home directory, I can of course see the symlink to my NFS mount point... but the datestamp on that link is "Sep 5 2018" .
17:31:00 <sproggit> I created that symlink earlier this afternoon. Today.
17:31:26 <sproggit> When I ask my machine for "date", I get, "Sat 26 Oct 22:27:34 BST 2019"
17:31:30 <sproggit> So the system date is correct
17:31:30 <chf> The flathub version has this problem solved, but FLATHUB is DIFFERENT.
17:31:37 <sproggit> Ah...
17:32:11 <sproggit> So would you advise me to uninstall the flathub version and go with the "original" GNUChas?
17:32:54 <chf> It starts the programme inside a container sandbox, which makes only certain needed filesystem parts available to the application, so symlinks from your home direcory to elsewhere are NEVER followed.
17:33:17 <chf> This is a flathub feature for making secure sandboxes.
17:34:09 <chf> Do you need european online banking? If not, use the other, less recent Gnucash.
17:34:16 <sproggit> I do not
17:34:29 <sproggit> I don't use any online banking features of GNUCash
17:34:33 <chf> If yes, I would have explained further…
17:34:37 <sproggit> Sounds like that will solve the challenge.
17:34:54 <chf> If not, come here again.
17:35:06 <sproggit> I will give it a try; thank you very much for your patience and your guidance.
17:35:20 <sproggit> Do you still have a Donate link on the home page?
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17:36:08 <chf> Don't know, it's not my project, I'm just a user like you, and contributed only small things as of now.
17:36:32 <sproggit> There is still a donate link
17:36:37 <sproggit> I'm just donating now
17:36:39 <sproggit> $25
17:36:47 <sproggit> Not much, but I believe in paying back
17:37:05 <sproggit> And it's what I can afford this side of pay-day!
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17:38:46 <sproggit> OK, all good
17:39:05 <sproggit> Thank you, chf, for your kind help.
17:39:08 <sproggit> Very much appreciated
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18:11:33 <Kiwi> Is anyone here?
18:11:50 <Kiwi> if so, can somebody tell me how to enter starting balances?>
18:13:41 <warlord> Kiwi, either enter then when you create your accounts, or just create a transaction from Equity:Opening Balances
18:13:59 <Kiwi> thanks :D
18:16:41 <Kiwi> and when i recive money froom a client how owuld i enter it, warlord
18:18:31 <warlord> There are several ways to enter it. Are you using the business (invoicing) features?
18:18:39 <Kiwi> probably not
18:18:44 <warlord> have you read the GnuCash Tutorial & Guide?
18:18:50 <Kiwi> where's that?
18:18:57 <warlord> www.gnucash.org under docs
18:19:17 <warlord> If not, then just Income:Sales -> Bank
18:19:21 <warlord> Assets:Bank
18:19:34 <Kiwi> https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?doc=help
18:19:37 <Kiwi> that?
18:21:45 <warlord> no, that's the help. You want the tutorial / guide
18:22:42 <Kiwi> also, when i do that, income goes up, but equity doesn't?
18:23:03 <warlord> Correct, because Income *is* an equity-type account.
18:23:15 <Kiwi> oh ok
18:23:16 <warlord> For instantaneous equity run a report like Balance Sheet
18:23:20 <Kiwi> an expenses is too?
18:23:23 <warlord> yes
18:23:36 <Kiwi> thanks a lot
18:23:47 <Kiwi> im new to accounting so sorry for asking dumb questions
18:23:57 <Kiwi> :sweat_smile:
18:24:03 <Kiwi> oh that didn't work4
18:24:16 <warlord> What didn't work?
18:24:57 <Kiwi> the emoji
18:25:00 <warlord> Another hint: always enter transactions either from the transfer window or from the Asset/Liability account. Working from Income/Expense is just weird and possibly confusing.
18:25:17 <Kiwi> transfer window = ctrl t?
18:25:28 <warlord> yes
18:25:54 <Kiwi> ty
18:26:02 <Kiwi> so when i do that, where do i put it from?
18:27:30 <warlord> I really think you should read the tutorial. Accounting is all about modeling the real world. So to answer that question, you need to tell me where the "value" is coming from, and where it is going to.
18:28:25 <Kiwi> oh o
18:28:27 <Kiwi> tysm
18:29:36 <warlord> Paying for groceries would be Cash -> Expenses:Groceries (or possibly Liabilities:Credit Card -> Expenses:Groceries)
18:30:44 <Kiwi> I don't see the tutorial
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19:13:11 <warlord> @tell Kiwi For the tutorial go to https://www.gnucash.org/docs.phtml and then click on the link for "The Tutorial and Concepts Guide" which is near the top of the page.
19:13:11 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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21:41:22 <chris> @tell gjanssens it's easy to create some spurious business txns. eg APAR/Bank currency != customer currency. although the payments appear in some reports, the handling is incorrect.
21:41:22 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
21:42:00 <chris> @tell gjanssens my reports will need to make assumptions on 'good' data, which means the bad data will be bypassed.
21:42:00 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
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22:09:21 <chris> @tell gjanssens in the first spurious txn above, when bank!=customer currency, the resulting txn currency matches customer currency, hence the book's split-amount will be 0.
22:09:21 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
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