2019-08-11 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:13:08 <fell> ninja check fails for me in 228 and 230, both complaining:
05:13:09 <fell> In function ‘size_t qof_print_date_buff(char*, size_t, time64)’,
05:13:11 <fell> inlined from ‘char* qof_print_date(time64)’ at ../../libgnucash/engine/gnc-date.cpp:594:25:
05:13:12 <fell> ../../libgnucash/engine/gnc-date.cpp:562:16: error: ‘char* strncpy(char*, const char*, size_t)’ specified bound 34 equals destination size [-Werror=stringop-truncation]
05:13:14 <fell> 562 | strncpy(buff, str.c_str(), len);
05:13:15 <fell> | ~~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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07:42:25 <warlord> .
07:44:49 <warlord> fell, interesting ... it's not at all illegal to do that (use sizeof(x) as the length of x for strncpy)
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08:39:30 <fell> warlord, but only for ASCII the number equals the length, neither for utf8, nor utf16.
08:40:20 <fell> number of chars
08:41:13 <fell> s/length/sizeof/
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09:05:46 <warlord> strncpy deals with bytes, not characters
09:06:14 <warlord> from the man page:
09:06:15 <warlord> The strncpy() function is similar, except that at most n bytes of src
09:06:16 <warlord> are copied. Warning: If there is no null byte among the first n bytes
09:06:16 <warlord> of src, the string placed in dest will not be null-terminated.
09:06:33 <warlord> So UTF8 doesn't matter.. It's all about the number of bytes in the string.
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12:00:08 <fell> Wm is active on bugzilla, lowering severities and priorities
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12:00:37 * chris been trying to improve the responsiveness of 'Get Quotes' especially ability to cancel F::Q process. not easy!
12:00:47 <fell> I am not sure, what to do with him.
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12:03:52 <chris> it *should* be possible to a 'Cancel' button to terminate F::Q process. after all qif-imp does offer a Pause/Cancel toggle.
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12:07:05 <sungod3k> HI
12:07:15 <fell> ho
12:07:34 <sungod3k> has anyone tried to connect to the german amazon creditcard recently? :D
12:08:03 <fell> with which protocol?
12:08:41 <sungod3k> hbci pin/tan via the aq banking wizard
12:09:30 <fell> Nobody, I know here.
12:09:40 <sungod3k> the bank is recognized and spits out a server url and the customer service confirmed that "use of accounting software is generally supported"
12:10:46 <fell> And if you go through the setup in gnucash?
12:11:27 <fell> or aqbanking-tool
12:11:36 <sungod3k> thats the one im using
12:12:40 <fell> and where is the problem
12:14:10 <sungod3k> after i enter the "special setting" like hbci version and http version, the client doesnt finish. i tried different combination like "enforcing sslv3 etc but nothing worked
12:15:58 <fell> Your gnucash/aqbanking versions, OS, ...
12:17:25 <sungod3k> 3.6 on win 10
12:19:50 <fell> If the aqbanking version is recent, it should prepopulate that dialog with usable data.
12:20:36 <sungod3k> i see
12:20:37 <fell> At least the valid values at the time of it's release.
12:23:40 <fell> There is still the"specialsettings" window open andnolog windowpoppedup?
12:26:24 <sungod3k> yes, the log window open automatically
12:27:02 <fell> and the last lines inside?
12:27:24 <sungod3k> 18:27:12 HBCI: 0010 - Nachricht entgegengenommen. (M) 18:27:12 HBCI: 0100 - Dialog beendet. (M) 18:27:12 Dialog not aborted, assuming PIN is ok 18:27:12 AqHBCI finished.
12:28:02 <fell> sounds good.
12:28:37 <fell> What was the Message before?
12:29:06 <sungod3k> yeah and i cant really see something that says "disconeccted or aborted" but the progressbar only goes 2/3 and then stops^^
12:29:32 <sungod3k> 18:27:51 HBCI: 3060 - Bitte beachten Sie die enthaltenen Warnungen/Hinweise. (M) 18:27:51 HBCI: 3075 - Banking-Programm muss zum 14.09.2019 auf PSD2 umgestellt werden. (M) 18:27:51 HBCI: 3050 - BPD nicht mehr aktuell, aktuelle Version enthalten. (S) 18:27:51 HBCI: 3920 - Zugelassene Zwei-Schritt-Verfahren für den Benutzer. (S) 18:27:51 HBCI: 0020 - Der Auftrag wurde ausgeführt.(MBT62220100807) (S) 18:27:51 HBCI: 3938 - Ihr Zugang ist vorläufig gesperrt
12:29:58 <sungod3k> there is something in german that talks about a new banking protocol
12:30:18 <fell> Ja,dannsag mal.
12:30:54 <sungod3k> Banking-Programm muss zum 14.09.2019 auf PSD2 umgestellt werden
12:31:41 <sungod3k> hab die bank danach gefragt und die meinten, dass das schon stimmt, aber gilt für alle banken und mit meinen anderen konten hatte ich heute keine probleme zu connecten
12:32:05 <fell> Jaja, Gnucash 3.7ist in Arbeitund soll voher rauskommen.
12:32:33 <sungod3k> oha, nadann :)
12:32:56 <fell> Aber was mich irritiert ist "HBCI: 3938 - Ihr Zugang ist vorläufig gesperrt"
12:33:23 <sungod3k> ja das hab ich die hotlie auch gefragt, aber ich kann mich normal einloggen, keine ahnung wo das herkommt
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12:33:57 <jralls> fell: I undid all of Wm's changes and told him that if he did it again I'll disable his account.
12:34:17 <fell> Klingt sowie3x falschePIN eingegeben
12:35:59 <sungod3k> ja, ich komm aber ganz normal in den online account der bank. wenn da was wäre, wäre der account ja sofort dicht
12:36:29 <sungod3k> aber ich lass mal 24 std verspreichen und schau dann nochmal
12:38:18 <fell> damit meinst du "über die Webseite der Bank"?
12:38:28 <sungod3k> ja
12:41:07 <fell> Lies mal https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/HBCI#Fehlersuche und den Rest der Seite.
12:41:53 <fell> Anschließend könntest du auf der aqbanking-user Liste fragen,
12:42:05 <sungod3k> das werd ich machen, danke für deinen input
12:42:55 <fell> aber strukturier das gut: Verwendete Versionen, was in welcher Reihenfolge gemacht, Reaktion ...
12:43:09 <sungod3k> will do :)
12:44:48 <fell> ggf. noch ein protokoll aus ~/.aqbanking/../logs anhängen, aber PIN usw zuvor überschreiben.
13:01:03 <jralls> warlord, are you able to edit .htaccess on www.gnucash.org?
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13:02:07 <jralls> warlord: Nevermind, it's in git. (Is that wise?)
13:18:10 <jralls> warlord: Well, poop. I'm trying to fix https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797340 but setting up rewrite is causing a server error. Are you able to get to the logs?
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13:51:15 <fell> jralls, I was thinking about that, too, but would use the other direction: gnucash.org->www.gnucash.org
13:55:58 <jralls> fell: That would need a DNS change.
13:58:26 <jralls> fell, it seems already to be in place, too. https://gnucash.org takes me to www.gnucash.org.
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14:00:25 <jralls> fell, the download box has gotten huge. Did you do that two weeks ago?
14:03:24 <fell> where?
14:04:24 <fell> My intention was only to remove the FB like button from the blue box in the right border.
14:07:20 <fell> because if you open the website it reports to FB your activity. If you are logged in there, your name and your IP else.
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14:16:42 <fell> Internal Server Error
14:17:50 <fell> There are 2 types of "important metadata" today, google and FB
14:18:47 <jralls> Do you mean that removing that section causes an internal server error?
14:20:13 <fell> They serve as promotion, i.e. seraching for "open source accounting"
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14:21:12 <fell> we are on page 1 at google.:-)
14:22:18 <jralls> What about on Facebook? Not that I'm a big fan of Google, they're just a little better than FB.
14:23:01 <fell> Our appearance there depends on it
14:23:17 <jralls> OK. I guess.
14:23:54 <fell> somewhere is an open PR about this stuff
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14:26:03 <jralls> That would be https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-htdocs/pull/23.
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14:42:14 <fell> On gnucash-de cstim expresses happiness to see the first win built with FinTS 4.1 features.
14:45:44 <jralls> Is that the product reg thing?
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14:50:57 <fell> yep
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15:09:01 <fell> if you enter our url at https://metatags.io/, you will see our appearance at FB & twitter
15:09:35 <fell> The page has also an explanation of the tags
15:45:56 <jonas_> whenever I make a transaction that involves an exchange, for example a SEK bank account & an EUR expense account, a dialog pops up to force me to enter an exchange rate. Is it possible to not have that exchange rate saved as a price?
15:47:44 <jonas_> I have many such exchanges happening and I don't want to look up exchange rates for every single day so I just accept the suggested estimate, but the dialog forces me to save that estimate as a price, which I can later not separate from "correct" exchange rates resulting from me looking them up, and the ones where I just accepted the estimate
15:48:58 <jonas_> (I can of course later go in and delete the price manually, assuming I had checked beforehand to make sure there wasn't already a valid data point for that date, but it adds a lot of extra steps per transaction)
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16:38:56 <jralls> jonas_ You misunderstand the process slightly: GnuCash maintains a transaction currency set from the account in which you start the transaction. When the "other" account has a different currency or commodity GnuCash needs to compute the value in the transaction currency and will pop that dialog. GnuCash needs to capture the actual amount in order to keep your books in balance so it's better to tab to the amount box and fill that in, letting GnuCas
16:38:56 <jralls> h calculate the rate.
16:41:48 <jralls> GnuCash does record the rate in the price database to ensure that you do have a price for that day, but it retains only one price per day unless you're using a version older than 2.6.12.
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16:44:50 <jralls> But the pricedb isn't what's used to balance the transaction and in fact the price/exchange rate isn't saved, the amount (in the "other" currency) and the value (in the transaction currency) are what are saved.
16:46:23 <jonas_> jralls, I'm using 3.3 so it's just one per day. what you describe matches my understanding of it, but what I'm asking is if I can create the transaction without saving the auto-calculated entry in the price database?
16:47:08 <jonas_> (I want to do this since if I use the auto-calculated entry, the new price adds no actual meaningful data as a derived value, and its inclusion actually reduces the accuracy of the price database by mixing actual correct data samples with derived samples)
16:47:50 <jralls> No, it's automatic and needed to ensure that there's at least some price on that day so that you don't get funny results.
16:48:11 <jralls> Sorry, so you don't get funny results--like missing entries--on reports.
16:48:19 <jonas_> since as you say the price database isn't used once the transaction is set, I can manually delete the added price afterwards and I experience no ill effect so far
16:48:37 <jonas_> or at least no ill effects that I have noticed, perhaps some reports are misleading as you say
16:49:10 <jonas_> but even with the derived values there, those same reports would still be misleading since they are using estimates, not actual true and correct values, no?
16:50:17 <jralls> If you don't know the exchange rate/transaction price at the time of the transaction perhaps that's because you're using a Euro credit card in Sweden and entering the transactions in SEK as you charge them. Most folks doing that wait to enter the charges til they've hit the CC website so they can just enter the EUR amount.
16:51:54 <jonas_> I have a mixed economy with some SEK and some EUR accounts, so I'm equally engaged with both currencies so it's not as simple as that, unfortunately
16:53:26 <jonas_> for example, my groceries-expense account is set to SEK, and if I add EUR transactions to it I am forced to set the exchange rate even though no actual exchange happened as I paid with EUR in an EUR store
16:54:12 <jonas_> I could create one expense account for SEK and another for EUR, but that's also not a great solution to work with as I'll end up with so many extra accounts
16:57:34 <jralls> But creating separate accounts is the correct approach. As you say, you're buying groceries priced in Euro with Euros. There's no exchange there.
17:00:06 <jonas_> I counted them, and excluding placeholders I have more than 30 different exchange accounts. I generally don't care what the exact exchange rate is for most of them, I would be happy for an estimate in SEK for my EUR-purchase of food for last monday
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17:01:08 <jonas_> I understand that there's no good solution for it right now, but surely you agree that creating another 30 accounts for the second currency isn't very convenient to work with?
17:01:08 <frakturfreak> jonas_: That’s also the way things are recorded in other accounting software using just one currency. There’ll always be some exchange rate fluctuation expense/income.
17:02:17 <frakturfreak> I’ve come with the solution of using just one currency for expense/income accounts, but several for assets and lialibilities
17:02:21 <jralls> jonas_ No, I don't agree, but if it's too inconvenient then perhaps a different program would meet your needs better.
17:02:46 <jonas_> yeah, perhaps, but I'd rather make the case for improving this one, if that's okay with you?
17:02:57 <frakturfreak> So if everything is paid I don’t up with various different p/l reports just on changing the exchange rate mechanism
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17:03:26 <jonas_> I mean it sounds like you're about to ban me for having a differing opinion, based on the attitude, which is kind of ridiculous
17:03:38 <jralls> jonas_ "improvement" in your opinion is "demanding customization as a gift" in mine.
17:04:05 <jralls> Have you been taking lessons from Wm Tarr?
17:04:13 <jonas_> I don't think I've been very demanding, but perhaps you could point out where I've been so I can improve?
17:04:56 <jonas_> it'd be nice if we could have a conversation about it without you getting upset, but I'm not here to make demands, I can't force anyone to do anything
17:05:04 <jralls> You want me to redesign GnuCash's core exchange functionality to meet your personal, rather unusual, requirements.
17:05:23 <jonas_> which is why I'm explaining the use-case, before you interrupted with an implied threat
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17:05:46 <jralls> What threat? I suggested that another package might better fit your needs.
17:05:52 <jonas_> I think there are better solutions that could be done without a major redesign, if you'd hear me out
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17:06:46 <jralls> Are you familiar enough with GnuCash's guts to evaluate what requires design and what doesn't?
17:07:16 <jonas_> no, but perhaps if I were to make a suggestion, people who were could opine about it
17:07:34 <jonas_> or is that me making another demand, to which the appropriate response is to tell me to go away?
17:08:03 <jralls> I didn't tell you to go away, but I'm the only dev who's actually here right now to listen to you.
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17:08:16 <jonas_> or, for that matter, suggest an existing solution that I might have missed
17:08:48 <jonas_> I don't get the feeling you're very interested in listening, it seems you're taking out your annoyance at someone else on me
17:10:25 <jralls> And it seems to me that you have an overweening sense of your own importance. Remember that GnuCash is a gift: You didn't pay for it, you haven't contributed to it, and it wasn't written with your personal needs in mind.
17:11:52 <jonas_> if you're not interested in helping that's perfectly fine, I understand. but I don't understand why you'd chose to engage if you weren't interested in hearing the issue
17:13:15 <jralls> I did try to help, you don't seem to like the choices that GnuCash offers. Instead you want it changed.
17:14:41 <jonas_> you interrupted me in the middle of explaining what I'd like to do, to tell me I should find another product (ie you're not worthy of using my product since you disagree, now go away)
17:15:14 <jonas_> I'm fine with not being helped, but it seems you're being unnecessarily snippy about it
17:18:45 <jralls> Sigh. I didn't interrupt you, I answered a question: "but surely you agree that creating another 30 accounts for the second currency isn't very convenient to work with?"
17:19:11 <jralls> And you promptly went off the deep end accusing me of wanting to ban you from the channel.
17:20:46 <jonas_> jralls, I have no problem with the answer "jonas_ No, I don't agree", but the part that makes you sound very aggressive is the go-away, ie "but if it's too inconvenient then perhaps a different program would meet your needs better"
17:21:44 <jonas_> it that's what classifies as banter here, and all users are welcome to take that tone with you and eachother here, then I apologize. it just seems like a very aggressive tone out of nowhere, but perhaps I misunderstood
17:22:07 <fell> As it seems more complex, I would suggest to put it on the one or other Mailing list?
17:22:30 <jonas_> yeah, that's a good idea
17:23:53 <fell> At first, jonas_ you could ask other users how they handle it and if requied later your suggestion for the devs.
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17:48:34 <warlord> jralls, I do not have access to www.gnucash.org
17:49:14 <jralls> OK. I'll email Linas and ask him to look into it.
17:51:19 <fell> jralls, what is the state of htdocs? BTW, thanks for fixing my typo!
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17:51:54 <jralls> fell, I don't understand. And thanks for disarming jonas.
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17:53:42 <jralls> fell, I don't understand. And thanks for disarming jonas.
17:54:10 <fell> jralls, the http redirect
17:54:36 <jralls> None of the ways I tried would work, so I'll have to drop it on Linas.
17:55:20 <jralls> It might be that he has the rewrite module disabled.
17:55:39 <fell> in selfhtml I read, redirects are more efficient, if they are in apaches config.
17:55:58 *** jonas_ is now known as jonas
17:56:15 <jonas> jralls, it's not like I'm a ticking bomb :P
17:57:00 <fell> There are many ways to Rome. I usually take that over the North Pole.
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17:58:40 <jralls> That's got to be a bit out of the way from Germany!
18:04:31 <fell> I would prefer the Mediterran Sea way, but I heard Sr. Salvini dislikes us sailors.
18:06:32 <jralls> Only if you rescue African people along the way.
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18:10:38 <fell> The intl. sea law would force me to do it.
18:14:07 <warlord> jonas, FYI, the priceDB entries *ARE* used... by the reports. So if you don't have a price for a day where you have a multi-commodity transaction then strangeness may ensue.
18:16:24 <jonas> warlord, yes, I was going to ask about that but the time didn't seem right. I would expect the program to just default to the closest sample in time, but perhaps that's not the case. any idea what I should keep an eye out for?
18:16:43 <warlord> As for buying groceries in EUR -- is your credit card converting them to SEK or charging you in EUR? As an example, I travel internationally a lot but I only have USD expense accounts. Even why I buy a dinner or something in EUR, or CAD, and MXN, or NIS, I record it in USD.
18:17:04 <warlord> I record the local currency in the description, and when the CC statement comes in I record the actual USD amount.
18:17:08 <warlord> No exchange rate required.
18:17:30 <warlord> Even when I use local cash, I record that in USD and just guestimate the rate.
18:18:34 <jonas> I have SEK cards for purchases in sweden and a separate EUR card for the rest, most of the time, and when there's "cross-pollination" I just pull the data from the card-issuer anyway (so I always get a SEK value from the SEK card and EUR from the EUR card)
18:18:43 <warlord> There are several different price sources that reports use, and nearest-in-time is one. Different reports use different methods. Pretty much every method uses the PriceDB, not transaction entries. And if data is missing, well, you could get bogus results.
18:19:05 <warlord> Then you need separate expense accounts.
18:19:25 <warlord> And any time you cross-polinate, you will need the exact exchange rate.
18:20:27 <jonas> as long as there are some samples for the price-pair in the price database, will it at least get an approximate value for all reports? as long as it doesn't just outright fail in those cases, I'm happy with it
18:21:44 <jonas> I'm noticing some warnings seemingly related to it in the console occasionally: WARNING (gnc:get-commodity-totalavg-prices: Sorry, currency exchange not yet implemented:
18:23:13 <jonas> (that could be because of another issue though, my python script for inserting CC is causing a weird issue so don't put too much stock in that message)
18:23:46 <jonas> *CC = transaction data from card issuers
18:29:17 <jralls> jonas, that's from some recent work chris has done to refactor the price calculations for some reports. I don't think it's from your script.
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18:30:31 <jonas> alright, thanks for the heads up
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18:39:24 <jonas> jralls, I should also thank you for removing the forced-rounding of decimals a year or so ago
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18:40:23 <jonas> I meant to reply to the ticket that you posted back then, but I couldn't recover my password for the tracker and then life happened
18:40:38 <jralls> jonas: You're welcome. That one has gone back and forth and there are still some rough edges, particularly in reports.
18:40:46 <jralls> Life can be such a pain...
18:40:47 <jonas> I'm successfully tracking BTC since then, so that's nice
18:41:21 <jonas> (well, I still need to go back and convert all the instances of mBTC to actual proper BTC, but it works for other cryptocurrencies with similar decimal usage)
18:42:04 <chris> all these commodity-totalavg-prices messages have been present since forever when price conversion is impossible. I merely rearranged the algorithms. I'd prefer removing message myself fwiw.
18:42:19 <jralls> Mostly. Someone managed to overflow it a few weeks ago, but I don't remember the particulars.
18:42:56 <jralls> chris, what's the issue with exchange rates vs. other prices?
18:44:28 <chris> there's no issue. totalavg-prices messages etc only appear when using weighted-average/average-cost
18:46:12 <chris> so jonas: the totalavg-prices messages suggest you're *not* using pricedb-nearest or pricedb-latest. so the pricedb isn't used at all.
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18:48:36 <jonas> alright. I'm not quite sure exactly in what circumstance I'm getting those messages, but I'll pay attention to the output when I'm doing something that may be affected
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