2019-07-01 GnuCash IRC logs

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02:21:17 <gjanssens> @tell jralls Good job on the release. The rel notes still mention GnuCash is available for Windows XP. In the relnotes for 3.x this is a bit confusing and inconsistent with the macOS mention.
02:21:17 <gncbot> gjanssens: The operation succeeded.
02:21:18 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 9 hours and 39 minutes ago: <jralls> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctags
02:22:45 <gjanssens> @tell jralls for macOS we indicate 10.9 is required without mentioning the PowerPC builds. Both WinXP and PowerPC are stuck on 2.6 and are IMO better not mentioned in relnotes for a 3.x and up release.
02:22:45 <gncbot> gjanssens: The operation succeeded.
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04:32:14 <markvandenborre> I've managed to crash gnucash with the locking on the db still in place
04:32:58 <markvandenborre> I see the .LCK and .LNK files, and I've verified there's no gnucash process running anymore, so I guess I can safely remove those and try again?
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04:41:19 <markvandenborre> ...so that was safe it seems, as could be expected
05:03:43 <markvandenborre> I'm trying to import a pile of transactions from my personal bank account, and this made me realise that I'm probably doing things somewhat wrong
05:05:45 <markvandenborre> if I'm importing supermarket transactions, is the right procedure to create subaccounts for every counterparty, like expenses:groceries:aldi expenses:groceries:lidl ?
05:06:33 <markvandenborre> I don't really need that level of detail, but it seems hard otherwise to automatically map things
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05:27:10 <markvandenborre> it seems like I could play with the "description" and "notes" fields for this
05:27:17 <markvandenborre> is that accepted practice?
05:28:02 <markvandenborre> "description" for the party interacted with, and "notes" for more information about the transaction
05:29:31 <markvandenborre> is there a way to map an account number in a csv to be imported to a human readable account name in gnucash?
05:30:48 <markvandenborre> example: csv field "account" DE37 98798 2234 4768 mapped to "personal checking account" in gnucash?
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06:13:45 <chris> for my next trick I'll aim to merge job-report and owner-repot, and simplify it
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06:23:38 <markvandenborre> I got the import to work fairly well
06:23:42 <markvandenborre> but I'm confused
06:24:00 <markvandenborre> that I'd still have to set the column header mappings every time
06:24:10 <markvandenborre> when I do an import
06:24:47 <markvandenborre> I can save a transaction import profile, but this doesn't seem to save the csv column to gnucash field mappings
06:26:29 <markvandenborre> is there a way to avoid having to do this mapping again and again?
06:27:20 <markvandenborre> maybe I'm missing something obvious?
06:31:19 <markvandenborre> chris: I'll be so impolite to just ask you because I saw you acitve, but I'd obviously appreciate anyone's hints
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06:36:24 <chris> i don't have much experience with csv importer; i suggest stay on irc until someone more experience can help
06:40:05 <chris> alternatively gnucash-user will have other experienced people
06:40:12 <markvandenborre> chris: ack, thx for the hints
06:40:40 <markvandenborre> gnucash-user the mailing list I assume?
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09:29:57 <chris> re: F::Q I don't have any particular concern about the security of data that it presents to gnucash however the F::Q script is still an external download whereby perl has full access to filesystem.
09:31:41 <chris> if gnc could have a menu item which calls (e.g. python) requests.get("https://bank.com/openbank/account/xxxx/transactions") and processes the returned JSON into the ImportMatcher it would do the trick. that's all I was referring to.
09:33:21 <chris> I guess if I wanted this I'd have to submit a .patch -_-
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12:20:31 <Robert847> Thanks to all the contributors for their efforts and contributions to the new release 3.6. However, the release announcement did not get the News page on the GnuCash website <https://gnucash.org/news.phtml>
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13:33:50 <gjanssens> Robert847: Probably the remote sync failed. I'll check if I can give it a push
13:38:34 <jralls> .
13:38:34 <gncbot> jralls: Sent 11 hours and 17 minutes ago: <gjanssens> Good job on the release. The rel notes still mention GnuCash is available for Windows XP. In the relnotes for 3.x this is a bit confusing and inconsistent with the macOS mention.
13:38:35 <gncbot> jralls: Sent 11 hours and 15 minutes ago: <gjanssens> for macOS we indicate 10.9 is required without mentioning the PowerPC builds. Both WinXP and PowerPC are stuck on 2.6 and are IMO better not mentioned in relnotes for a 3.x and up release.
13:39:12 <jralls> gjanssens and Robert847, both fixed.
13:39:44 <gjanssens> jralls: thanks, you beat me to it. It looks like the 3.6 announcement wasn't pushed at all.
13:40:53 <gjanssens> To be clear, now it is
13:43:51 <gjanssens> markvandenborre: it should save the column mappings. There was a bug in that area though that was fixed in gnucash 3.5. What version of gnucash are you using ?
13:43:52 <jralls> @tell chris Why is the python--or guile, for that matter--interpreter more secure than perl's? They all have full access to the file system. And you're confusing F::Q with AQBanking. F::Q gets stock quotes and currency exchange rates; AQBanking talks to some banks via FinTS or OFX Direct.
13:43:52 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
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13:44:49 <jralls> gjanssens: Right, that was the Robert847 part of "fixed"; changing Windows XP to Windows 7 was your part.
13:45:25 <jralls> It wasn't pushed because I'd forgotten to `git add` it before committing yesterday.
13:46:52 <Robert847> If Windows XP isnt supported any more, I suppose Windows 3.4 or Windows 95 isnt either
13:47:20 <jralls> Only Windows NT was ever supported.
13:47:43 <Robert847> LOL
13:48:25 <jralls> Uhh, do you understand the distinction between Windows NT and Windows 3.x to ME?
13:51:35 <Robert847> NT came well after 3.x and was the first to run independent of Microsoft, if I recall.
13:53:59 <jralls> Uh, no. NT was a ground-up new operating system replacing MS-DOS. Windows 3.x through ME were GUI shells that ran on top of MS-DOS.
13:57:10 <Robert847> I completely forgot about ME. My brain started offloading old details several years ago. Now I have to look at my drivers license to see what my name is.
13:57:29 <gjanssens> :D
13:57:49 <jralls> That explains why you have different handles here, on the lists, and in Bugzilla. ;-)
13:58:55 <Robert847> Of Course, doesn't everyone? When I signed up for GMail, my handle was already used, after all.
14:00:11 <Robert847> Now, I get mail for someone who lives in North Dakota
14:00:15 <jralls> I'm jralls almost everywhere... though not on GMail, where it's somebody else. Anyway, Win2k and on are all Windows NT. You'll that in the Registry among other places.
14:01:31 <jralls> For a long time I got mail on my comcast address for a ~4th cousin in Gadsden whom I don't know because all of his friends assumed johnralls@comcast.net was him.
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14:03:40 <Robert847> I am surprised that North Dakote car dealer doesnt wonder why I never bring in my car for service....;-)
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14:12:15 <Robert847> So I was a little off about Windoze history. Now I am focussing on Linux, BSD and how to jump over completely from Windoze without tripping. Not sure that I will ever finish that project.
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14:13:13 <jralls> I'd start by picking either Linux or BSD. There's no reason for a user to learn to deal with both.
14:15:07 <jralls> I recommend Linux because the Linux distros--Ubuntu and Fedora in particular--are a lot more geared towards users than the BSDs... except for MacOS, which is BSD underneath the pretty UI. But you have to pay for Apple hardware to use that.
14:16:27 <Robert847> Nothing wrong with being bi-lingual. Just extra work to keep the mind active. I think we are going off-topic tho.
14:16:39 <jralls> There's a topic here?
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14:17:24 <Robert847> :-D
14:17:39 <jralls> It's not really bilingual, more like trying to speak with both a Southern and a New England accent at the same time.
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14:19:22 <Robert847> That would really be hard for a midwesterner like me
14:19:42 <jralls> Nearly all of the differences are under the hood from a user's standpoint. It's just that setting up and maintaining a BSD is like Arch or Gentoo Linux: It's all command line.
14:20:49 <Robert847> even harder for a cheesehead (Wisconsin) like my wife. You seem to be doing pretty well with it, tho
14:21:22 <Robert847> I need to break for lunch.
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14:21:53 <jralls> I grew up in Silicon Valley, went to college in Atlanta, and spent most of my time in the Navy in Connecticut. Plenty of practice with different accents. ;-)
14:33:16 <jralls> warlord, gjanssens: Good grief there's a lot of unused API in app-utils/options.scm. Was it used once upon a time or just written because someone thought it might be useful someday?
14:37:20 <warlord> I think it was used a while ago and then the options code moved from SCM to C and the old code wasn't pruned.
14:40:57 <jralls> Maybe, but I think only the book options code is in C, the part saved in the book's KVP. Report-options is scheme except for the dialog boxes.
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14:54:54 <jralls> Hrmph. A big chunk of unused API is Alex's book currency farrago.
14:58:18 <gjanssens> jralls: I haven't looked, but could part of the unused api come from trying to expose a consistent api (like eg. all options have proper getters and setters but we don't use all of them) ?
15:00:43 <jralls> gjanssens: I think it's more like a demented attempt at a class hierarchy. gnc:make-option defines this all-encompassing and highly impenetrable structure and it's called by 1001 varieties of gnc:make-foo-option that call it in turn, each using only a part of it... and some using none.
15:01:25 <jralls> Sorry, that last bit isn't right, should be and some using only the basic name/type/value.
15:02:49 <gjanssens> Demented in the sense that is was written before guile had something like goop...
15:04:04 <jralls> No, demented in that it's upside down: The root class should have only the elements that are common to all of the subclasses, not every element needed by every subclass.
15:04:44 <gjanssens> Ok from that perspective it's not a class hierarchy at all of course
15:05:02 <jralls> A class lower-archy?
15:05:09 <gjanssens> LOL
15:06:05 <gjanssens> It's more like a record structure really, each option has a set of "parameters" you can set or query
15:06:17 <gjanssens> The available parameters are the same and consistent for all options
15:06:27 <gjanssens> Their implementation differs per option
15:06:55 <jralls> Except that they're not. Only a few options implement each of the items past the basic 3.
15:07:36 <gjanssens> True, but you can query all of them anyway no ? If not implemented it just returns false
15:07:46 <gjanssens> #f
15:07:57 <gjanssens> Rather than bombing out
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15:08:38 <gjanssens> BTW I'm not defending the code at all :( just trying to understand...
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15:11:29 <jralls> I think so, as there's a gnc:option-set-foo and gnc:option-get-foo for each that uses (vector-ref option n). If vector-ref range-checks and returns #f if n is out of range then it won't crash.
15:12:30 <gjanssens> That would make for a nice code reduction indeed.
15:14:19 <jralls> The goal is to convert this to a C++ class so that only reports use scheme to set/get options.
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15:17:56 <gjanssens> Ack
15:18:04 <jralls> That's weird. www.gnu.org has fallen out of DNS.
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15:18:55 <jralls> Ack as in Acknowledge or Ack as in Ack Thhpphht {0,o} ?
15:19:43 <gjanssens> Acknowledge.
15:19:57 <gjanssens> Didn't realize it to be ambiguous
15:20:41 <gjanssens> I get results for "dig www.gnu.org" and "dig www.gnu.org AAAA"
15:20:51 <jralls> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_the_Cat
15:20:53 <gjanssens> But their server doesn't seem to respond
15:22:22 <jralls> I'm getting servfail from Google's name server
15:23:27 <gjanssens> Heh, Bill the Cat didn't make it to Belgium :)
15:23:47 <gjanssens> Never heard of him before
15:24:58 <jralls> I'm not surprised. It was a rather strange set of strips, probably made sense only in an American context.
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17:03:56 <chris> .
17:03:56 <gncbot> chris: Sent 3 hours and 20 minutes ago: <jralls> Why is the python--or guile, for that matter--interpreter more secure than perl's? They all have full access to the file system. And you're confusing F::Q with AQBanking. F::Q gets stock quotes and currency exchange rates; AQBanking talks to some banks via FinTS or OFX Direct.
17:04:37 <chris> not more secure at all jralls. just a reply to fell's comment that scripting is unrecommended due to some security issue.
17:05:04 <chris> if there's interest in overhauling options.scm i can certainly do.
17:07:25 <chris> but my part would be to modify all options (including aycinena's part) to a form that's directly translatable to C
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17:38:02 <chris> in aging-table in owner-report.scm and aging.scm I don't think the 'Current' bucket actually works at all
17:43:32 <chris> if warlord can tell me the intent of the "Current" bucket I can fix it
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17:48:08 <chris> the only interpretation I can think is e.g. start-date is 1-jan, end-date 1-may, includes all invoices whose post/due-dates are between 1-jan and 1-may in the 30-day buckets; and current tab catches all invoices whose dates > 1-may. But the queries are set up so that NO invoices are returned beyond end-date; so, Current is always $0
18:09:52 <warlord> Current means "less than X days old" where X is the bucket sizes. E.g., I just posted an invoice today. That would be "current"
18:11:32 <chris> i'm struggling to create an invoice that falls into the 'current' bucket though
18:12:04 <chris> if end-date = today, the new-invoice falls into 0-30
18:12:14 <chris> if end-date = last wekk, the new-invoice isn't reported
18:12:35 <chris> if end-date = today+40days, the new-invoice falls into 31-60
18:13:02 * chris thinks it's broken
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19:21:16 <jralls> chris I don't think redesigning options.scm in Scheme and then converting that to C++ is the right approach. Better to understand the underlying requirements and design something that meets those requirements. Since options are state FP is not the right paradigm.
19:22:30 <jralls> chris: You might find https://www.manning.com/books/functional-programming-in-c-plus-plus interesting...
19:24:00 <warlord> chris, I honestly dont recall how the buckets are supposed to work. IIRC I copied it from somewhere else.
19:24:22 <jralls> As for buckets, it's redundant. If your terms are e.g. net 30 then 0-30 is "current".
19:26:11 <jralls> If 40 days in the future is getting reported in the 31-60 bucket that's budgeting not ageing.
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20:03:54 <chris> jralls it's aging. I used example today+40days as an example.
20:04:24 <chris> I think I can now understand the genuine meaning of Current -- invoice->due-date < report-end-date. I'll try make it work.
20:05:15 <chris> 0-30, 31-60 etc will then refer to the difference report-end-date - invoice->due-date
20:07:33 <chris> report-end-date should probably be removed, and we use (today) instead
20:09:01 <jralls> chris, if it's aging then it should be about how many days past-due the invoice/bill is. One that's been sent or received but isn't yet due is "current". The other buckets are generally for how past due it is... so I guess from that viewpoint, if it was due last week it should go in 0-30, if due in May then in 31-60, and so on.
20:10:11 <jralls> If the report is to send to a customer to remind them to pay up then you might want to date it on some particular day, maybe the first or last of the month, even if you're a couple of days late in running it.
20:11:25 <chris> i get it now; very broken it was
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20:21:36 <warlord> chris, in what was was it "very broken"?
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