2019-06-30 GnuCash IRC logs
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08:16:08 <chris> openbanking coming to australia and UK
08:16:25 <chris> it's a *real* shame the only interface is aqbanking :-(
08:16:55 <fell> Chris, what is wrong with aqbanking?
08:18:30 <chris> sorry, it's unfortunately hostile to non-anglo speakers and non-C
08:18:50 <fell> Ah, I assume because it is not SCM?
08:18:58 <chris> nor python
08:19:29 <chris> GnuCash could very easily add another interface to anglo-friendly api
08:20:14 <fell> For security reasons no scripting languages ;-)
08:20:48 <chris> i don't buy this argument...
08:21:19 <fell> The anglo directOFX standard was also implemented.
08:21:19 <chris> there are middleware as well
08:22:59 <chris> https://www.westpac.com.au/about-westpac/innovation/open-banking/product-api/
08:23:46 <chris> DirectOFX is the Quicken-connect copycat, no? I think this can be considered a bad hack
08:25:32 <fell> not WebOFX
08:26:42 <fell> I am summoned ...
08:27:12 <chris> ttyl
08:28:12 <chris> https://consumerdatastandardsaustralia.github.io/standards/#get-products \o/
08:29:04 <chris> this is as easy as it gets
08:32:02 <chris> I consider the GnuCash->GetQuotes via perl a security hole, reliant on erik's integrity
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09:17:45 * chris thinks job-report and owner-report could be merged... could anyone (eg warlord) give pointers which came first, and any caveats need knowing?
09:18:36 <chris> GET https://digital-api.westpac.com.au/cds-au/v1/banking/accounts gives "Missing authentication token" which is promising...
09:26:43 <warlord> I think owner report came first.
09:43:20 <chris> thx, i gather... and no clue why job-report needed to be spun off?
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10:02:48 <warlord> Nope.
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10:14:48 <chris> because of https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551858 ...
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12:48:48 <jralls> chris, your concern about F::Q is misplaced. F::Q's results are filtered through our own code, producing a date and a number that are inserted into a hash that has only peripheral affect on reports and no impact at all on the balance of the books.
12:52:41 <jralls> Guile OTOH is central to several parts of GnuCash and has direct access to changing transactions, as do AQBanking, libofx, the Boost project, Gtk, etc. All have project teams and we rely on those project teams to write safe and secure code. The alternative is to code everything ourselves directly in machine code--because even an assembler would be suspect.
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13:46:14 <gjanssens> .
13:46:14 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 20 hours and 38 minutes ago: <jralls> fell warlord Distcheck failed because gjanssens forgot to remove doc/build-aix.txt from the dist list in CMakeLists.txt. No biggie, except that it got me to look at the other files in doc. I deleted build-osx.txt and build-solaris.txt as being useless and obsolete, but ISTM we should go further and get rid of everything in there except the windows installer readmes, the man pages, gtk-3.0.css, and tip-of-the-day.list.c.
13:52:53 * gjanssens mostly agrees
13:53:48 <gjanssens> I didn't remove the other parts yet as I wanted to read the files and be sure we're not dropping bits that are still actual and we haven't stored anywhere else.
14:01:21 <jralls> gjanssens It occurred to me that doc is probably not the best place for tip-of-the-day.list.c, it should probably move to gnome-utils next to dialog-totd.c
14:04:58 <gjanssens> jralls: that certainly makes more sense.
14:06:07 <gjanssens> jralls: What-is-euro-support can definitely go, and at first sight the Translation HOWTO as well
14:07:12 <gjanssens> As does guile-hackers
14:08:44 <gjanssens> For me README.français and README.german can go as well.
14:09:29 <jralls> Maybe README-.*.win32-bin.txt should go to gnucash-on-windows?
14:09:55 <gjanssens> README.translation refers to TRANSLATION_HOWTO as the more up to date translation resource. That would make it even more obsolete as we have a wiki now.
14:10:06 <jralls> ;-)
14:12:12 <gjanssens> The win files probably make more sense in gnucash-on-windows indeed.
14:12:58 <gjanssens> So that leaves us with README.{OFX/HBCI} and project.html
14:13:43 <gjanssens> I don't have time now to read those.
14:14:44 <gjanssens> If projects.html contains something valuable, it should find a home on one of our online sites (main site or more likely wiki)
14:15:47 <gjanssens> HBCI is likely mostly outdated, but it has a quick tour that may still be mostly useful for newcomers. Or do we have better info in our wiki already ?
14:15:58 * gjanssens doesn't use HBCI so he never searched for that
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14:17:28 <gjanssens> Looks like the OFX file is more or less of the same time period.
14:17:35 <jralls> IIRC HBCI itself is obsolete, replaced by FinTS.
14:17:47 <gjanssens> Perhaps
14:18:34 <gjanssens> Isn't Dave Cousens documenting some import parts ? Maybe he has a better idea of what's already in our documentation and what is missing.
14:18:45 <jralls> The OFX file is half-right. We still use libofx for importing OFX files but use AQB for OFX DirectConnect.
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14:19:12 <jralls> I don't remember any Dave Cousens work on imports. /me looking...
14:20:53 <jralls> Ah, https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-docs/pull/114
14:21:27 <jralls> That was part of his multi-selection patch in the matcher, not a general overhaul.
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14:23:50 <jralls> Sunfish wrote a new importing chapter for the guide.
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14:28:50 <gjanssens> Oh right.
14:36:01 <jralls> Too bad you don't have time for project.html, it's, umm, inspirational. It seems to have been linas's mission statement when he was trying to do the development company thing.
14:46:03 <gjanssens> I'll try to make it bed lecture :)
14:46:17 <gjanssens> How's the release going ?
14:47:45 <jralls> Not great. Took three tries to get the Win32 build to finish and I'm having to baby-sit MacOS. That's grinding away on WebKit now, so at least another hour or two.
14:52:56 <gjanssens> :(
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15:30:36 <fell> I think README-.*.win32-bin.txt should be renamed to README-.*.txt and stay in docs after removing README.français and README.german
15:31:11 <fell> Their content is not only for win users of interest.
15:39:23 <gjanssens> fell: looking at these files, that may be reasonable. Linux applications typically also install some sort of README file
15:40:21 <gjanssens> We should remove the last line though "This is the 2.2 README file..."
15:40:47 <fell> yep
15:42:49 <fell> README.HBCI -> *.in and the in make replace the minimum AQB version
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15:46:53 <fell> and remove the "which in turn requires: " section - it is too hard to maintain
15:49:02 <fell> and more updates required :-(
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16:03:17 <gjanssens> fell: The version and dependencies info should be consolidated in README.dependencies IMO
16:04:09 <fell> right
16:08:18 <gjanssens> In addition I would only add direct dependencies in our README.depencencies, so the "which in turn requires..." stuff should go
16:08:54 <gjanssens> That's not our concern. A good distro will sort this out for us, or the aqbanking/gwenhywfar README can specify its own dependencies.
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16:23:09 <jralls> We do install a README file, it's in the root directory. The README-.*.win32-bin.txt files are formatted for display by the Windows setup program.
16:26:09 <jralls> If we want translated READMEs they should be translations of that one, but good luck getting it translated.
16:26:41 <gjanssens> Ah, yes. That does make them Windows installer proper.
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16:34:27 <jralls> In the root directory README.git seems a bit odd. It's not really about git. It asks people to submit patches to gnucash-devel for review and says to add new contributors to doc/sgml/C/xacc-about.sgml a non-existant file.
16:37:38 <gjanssens> Yeah, that file seems to be originally have started life as some kind of how-to-contribute README. Over the years with all the changes it's hardly recongnizable still.
16:37:47 <gjanssens> I'd remove it.
16:38:14 <jralls> Makefile.TAGS is another whose time is long passed.
16:38:31 <gjanssens> Our main README file directs interested contributors to the appropriate wiki pages.
16:39:15 <gjanssens> I have no idea what etags and tags is about
16:40:59 <gjanssens> Time for bed here...
16:41:03 <gjanssens> Goodnight!
16:41:11 <jralls> Good night!
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16:41:35 <jralls> @tell gjanssens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctags
16:41:35 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
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17:47:30 <chris> jralls chris was having a mini-rant that the banking world is opening up with formal APIs and the only interface GnuCash has to access them is via AQBanking and they seem to have zero interest nor inclination to modernise
17:49:36 <jralls> chris: For what values of "banking world" and "they"? For the first, I think you mean "Australian Banking".
17:49:55 <chris> https://www.openbanking.org.uk/
17:50:15 <chris> they = aqbanking guys
17:51:15 <jralls> That "they" is "he", Martin Preuss, though he gets some help from our cstim it's mostly a one-man show. He's German and naturally focussed on the German FinTS.
17:51:50 <chris> sure
17:52:16 <chris> gtg bed
17:52:40 <jralls> As for OpenBanking, their "about" page says " financial products and services from providers regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) and European equivalents."
17:52:40 <Simon> "Open Banking" in the UK isn't very open when all the apps have to be regulated
17:53:00 <Simon> there may be standards but they are not usable by consumers
17:53:14 <jralls> I bet that's going to play *real well* come October 31. :-/
17:53:44 <chris> huh what's happening then?
17:54:43 <jralls> Proprietary apps tied to your particular bank, most likely. And only in the UK, useless everywhere else.
17:55:44 <jralls> AFAICT only the Germans have stuffed truly open banking down their banks throats so that one app can talk to any German bank. That's FinTS and it's what AQBanking primarily implements.
17:57:05 <chris> then there's yodlee&others which talks to banks and provides a REST api
17:59:34 <jralls> Yeah, but not to consumers and probably not to open-source.
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19:04:44 *** jralls changes topic to "Free GPL Personal and Small Business Accounting || Moderated mode: To get a voice, register with NickServ and then re-join. || Please don't ask to ask, just ask and wait! (Possibly a few hours!!) || publicly-logged channel || latest stable: 3.6 || https://www.gnucash.org || https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/"
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21:36:09 <warlord> .
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