2019-05-25 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:13:09 <gjanssens> .
02:13:09 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 2 hours and 47 minutes ago: <chris> and jralls that's fine -- running scheme without gui is blue-sky for now... although I'm really wondering whether it'll be that difficult to create a scheme passthrough from commandline. Intuition says not difficult :)
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03:46:22 <gjanssens> chris: what do you mean exactly with "passthrough" ?
03:46:41 <gjanssens> Something like gnucash-cmd -exec-guile "(some guile code)" ?
03:49:31 <chris> something like that yes, but with full access to libguile, session and file i/o
03:50:22 <chris> though i wonder if it's too difficult to load report-system but not gnome
03:50:37 <chris> anyway this is for v8.0
03:51:16 <chris> ps as soon as reports settle down i'll resume hacking
04:06:41 <gjanssens> v8 LOL
04:14:22 <gjanssens> chris: as the current plan is to merge my reports branch into master, you can safely continue any hacking that's planned for maint
04:15:09 <gjanssens> git should be smart enough to understand file moves while merging
04:18:12 <gjanssens> for example if I merge current maint into my RptCleanup branch that succeeds without any merge conflict and I still see your change in balance-forecast.scm
04:18:28 <gjanssens> That was done right after the previous merge of maint into master
04:18:59 <gjanssens> So git understands that report has moved to a different directory and then applies the changes in the new location.
04:22:29 <chris> cool
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04:26:08 <chris> I think it should be possible to load report-system without gnome... after all this is how scheme report tests are run, although they don't have access to session and file i/o
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04:32:40 <gjanssens> chris: yes report-system doesn't really depend on gnome
04:33:33 <gjanssens> It's one of my follow-up ideas for reorganizing the report stuff: integrate report-gnome in gnome and bring the contents of report-system to report
04:34:28 <gjanssens> In theory what's left of the report system could then be moved to libgnucash, except that it's guile and for portability we want the eliminate guile from libgnucash
04:34:43 <gjanssens> I have wondered whether it could live in bindings instead
04:35:32 <gjanssens> That way it could still be part of a gui-less interface (by combining libgnucash and bindings in one build)
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06:16:35 <hnasiet> regarding bug 612957 https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612957
06:17:12 <hnasiet> I was able to verify that it was due to multiple rounding
06:18:14 <hnasiet> as when computing the rounded subtotal as the difference between the rounded aggregate and the rounded tax and discount
06:18:22 <hnasiet> the issue was solved
06:19:21 <hnasiet> I am not an expert in accounting but should gnucash even be storing unrounded values for invoices?
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06:37:51 <gjanssens> hnasiet: it's been a while since I last worked in that area. Why do you think gnucash is storing unrounded values ?
06:39:47 <gjanssens> @tell jralls I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796763 where you suggest on MacOS you have to use a shell executable stored in your home directory. I was looking in the gnucash-on-osx repo to find where that happens, but can't immediately find it. Can you give me a pointer ?
06:39:47 <gncbot> gjanssens: The operation succeeded.
06:43:40 <hnasiet> gjanssens: gnucash is storing unrounded tax and discount values at GncEntry.c:: gncEntryComputeValueInt
06:43:48 <hnasiet> called from
06:43:59 <hnasiet> gncEntryRecomputeValues
06:45:27 <hnasiet> and after calling that function, it computes the rounded values
06:46:41 <hnasiet> and it rounds everything, and as a consequence of rounding errors the sum doesn't match
06:51:04 <warlord> hnasiet, one issue is that different entities have different rounding rules. Some round each line-item. Some round at the end. Is the tax on the total? Or on each item? Different places do it differently so there's now way to get it right for everyone.
06:52:05 <hnasiet> warlord: I know
06:52:21 <hnasiet> but the way it is being done the sum is wrong
06:52:40 <warlord> @tell chris gnucash USED to have a '-e' command-line which would tell it to run a scheme file.
06:52:40 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
06:52:48 <warlord> hnasiet, not always.
06:52:57 <hnasiet> you have to compute the sum and then compute the difference
06:53:08 <hnasiet> I mean the total
06:53:22 <warlord> hnasiet, yes, it is incorrect sometimes. But sometimes it is not.
06:53:25 <hnasiet> andd the difference between the total and the rounded discount or taxes
06:53:34 <hnasiet> when there is no rounding
06:53:44 <hnasiet> it's correct
06:53:56 <hnasiet> but if you have 100% tax
06:54:14 <hnasiet> for an item with an odd number
06:54:20 <gjanssens> wrt "storing unrounded values" - the tax and discount are not stored. They are always calculated.
06:54:26 <hnasiet> and you round both tax and subtotal
06:54:38 <hnasiet> up
06:54:45 <hnasiet> you get one more cent in the total
06:54:51 <hnasiet> that's the issue
06:56:03 <hnasiet> gjanssens: You are right, I meant it was stored in the variable entry
06:56:41 <hnasiet> gjanssens: My question is if it shouldn't be rounded, and then only handle rounded values
07:00:08 <hnasiet> I'll submit a patch in the bug report just to show my point
07:01:01 <gjanssens> It may be, I'll have to refresh my memory on my last changes in that area
07:07:24 <warlord> IIRC, if it wasn't rounded then it was possible for both values to be wrong.
07:10:20 <hnasiet> the easiest test case
07:10:53 <hnasiet> is quantity:1, price:100.01, tax included, taxable and tax table with a tax rate of 100%
07:14:41 <warlord> well, 10000/100 * 100/100 (100%) should be 1000000/10000, with total being 200.02.
07:14:55 <warlord> There *is* no rounding to be done in that test case.
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08:09:10 <hnasiet> warlord: tax included
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08:10:14 <hnasiet> warlord: tax included
08:12:31 <hnasiet> 100.01/(1+ 1) = 50.005
08:12:40 <hnasiet> and tax = 50.005
08:13:26 <hnasiet> normally taxes have to be rounded up
08:13:54 <hnasiet> half up, standard rounding
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08:22:20 <chris> .
08:22:20 <gncbot> chris: Sent 1 hour and 29 minutes ago: <warlord> gnucash USED to have a '-e' command-line which would tell it to run a scheme file.
08:22:29 <chris> warlord: shame it got removed
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08:41:36 * chris also thinks invoice total/tax amounts must be sotred post-rounding in book... recalculating seems risky... perhaps fileformat change for 4.0 or 5.0
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08:54:15 <hnasiet> .
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12:55:23 <jralls> @tell gjanssens the creation and setting of SHELL to ~/.local/bin/bash happens in gtk-osx, not gnucash-on-osx.
12:55:23 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
12:55:24 <gncbot> jralls: Sent 6 hours and 15 minutes ago: <gjanssens> I'm looking at https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796763 where you suggest on MacOS you have to use a shell executable stored in your home directory. I was looking in the gnucash-on-osx repo to find where that happens, but can't immediately find it. Can you give me a pointer ?
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12:57:59 <jralls> @tell gjanssens IMO everything GnuCash except display should be exact, but I have stayed away from the business code so I don't know what it's actually doing.
12:57:59 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
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13:20:05 <jralls> @tell chris It wouldn't be hard to put back the -e command line arg, but IIRC it didn't do quite what you want as it ran the supplied scheme file and still launched the GUI.
13:20:05 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
13:22:53 <jralls> @tell chris What you want is still pretty easy, we'd just need to refactor inner_main_add_price_quotes to inner_main_run_scheme and pass it the necessary args to get the quotes or run the scheme file according to the cmdline arg.
13:22:53 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
13:24:11 <jralls> @tell chris But allowing a program to run arbitrary code is an enormous security hole and is generally considered a bad idea. Even if that wasn't why we removed the option it's a good reason not to restore it.
13:24:11 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
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13:57:33 <warlord> @tell chris I'm sure the code is in the source repo history; you could find and revive it.
13:57:33 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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15:29:30 <CDB-Man_> if I setup an account as an AR/AP register, in the "type" column rigth after date, what does I vs P mean?
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15:57:11 <jralls> CDB-Man: I think it means "Invoiced" and "Paid", not sure what "A" means. Note that AR & AP are special registers that are intended for use with the invoice and bill dialogs. If you want to do accrual accounting by hand use regular asset and liability accounts and name them Accounts Receivable and Accounts Payable.
15:57:44 <CDB-Man> hmm, I'll give it some thought then
16:04:28 <CDB-Man> hmm, is it intentional then that when viewing an AP register, the "new invoice" button is shown instead of "new bill"
16:04:30 <CDB-Man> ?
16:04:46 <CDB-Man> "new invoice" in the toolbar makes sense on the AR register view, not so much on AP
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16:09:17 <jralls> It's probably a place-holder. Those registers are designed to work inside of the respective dialogs, not as regular accounts.
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16:11:27 <CDB-Man> right then. that aside, it looks like the only limitation to me using the proper dialogs is the limitation on the split account: AR only allows split with Income accounts, and AP only with Expense accounts. I can't set an AR against something such as another asset account
16:14:42 <CDB-Man> hmm, nevermind, it looks like some asset accounts are alloweed, but others aren't (cash, another AR, etc)
16:19:12 <jralls> CDB-Man: I'll have to defer to warlord on why there'd be an account restriction.
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16:39:26 <CDB-Man> hmm, so I've currently been using the AR type account to manually do accrual accounting for some of my AR/AP. If going forward I want to use the actual AR/AP modules, do you recommend starting a new account altogether? as opposed to simply having gnucash post transactions to the existing AR account and leaving the old transactions as-is
16:40:00 <CDB-Man> leaving the old transactions as-is would be easiest of course, but only if that won't mess with other things
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16:47:29 <CDB-Man> hmm, I can't figure out how to delete a newly generated bill
16:47:34 <CDB-Man> generated an extra bill in error
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18:36:32 <warlord> CDB-Man, I == Invoice, P == Payment. It's denoting the type of transaction.
18:37:33 <warlord> CDB-Man, you SHOULD NOT use AR/AP manually. You can lock out your transactions and make them untouchable if you're not careful.
18:37:48 <warlord> Those accounts were designed specifically to work ONLY with Invoicing/Billing.
18:38:05 <warlord> If you don't want to use Invoicing/Billing then use a standard Asset or Liability account.
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18:38:21 <warlord> CDB-Man, w.r.t. the extra bill -- reuse it for the next one.
18:38:27 <warlord> You cannot delete biz objects.
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20:32:34 <CDB-Man> thanks warlord. w.r.t existing transactions in those ledgers then, is it fine to just leave those as-is, and start invoicing on top of them within the same account? that or, i should zero them out then start fresh
20:33:07 <warlord> I would not mix them. Change the existing accounts to Asset, rename them, then create real A/R accounts.
20:33:59 <CDB-Man> well, it loosk liek if there are transactions within the account, you cannot change the type to "asset"
20:35:56 <CDB-Man> what I could do though, is mark them "placeholder" to prevent further transactions, record 1 entry to move the balance to a temperoary account, then invoice in a real AR/AP with the difference coming from that temp account
20:37:39 <warlord> Huh. You SHOULD be able to change from AR to Asset.
20:37:45 <warlord> What version of gnucash is this?
20:38:00 <CDB-Man> Build ID: git 3.5-170-gd62489409+(2019-05-09)
20:38:12 <warlord> (I know the "rules" changed at some point). Although maybe they deny that because AR *is* special.
20:38:29 <warlord> Your other option is to manually move the transactions from AR to an Asset account.
20:38:37 <warlord> I really wouldn't mix-and-match.
20:39:05 <CDB-Man> I don't recall ever being able to convert an asset account to/from an AR account or vice versa, as long as transactions exist
20:39:38 <CDB-Man> manual is possible, but given the volume of transactions, I think I will just lock it down using the placeholder flag
20:40:18 <CDB-Man> I think this about solves most of my current questions at hand then; the other issue i filed a ticket for
20:41:38 <warlord> Hopefully the placeholder trick will prevent Invoice posting.
20:42:45 <CDB-Man> warlord: it definitely does; accounts marked placeholder aren't selectable in the Expense account dropdown
20:43:13 <CDB-Man> sorry, I'm thinking for adding splits
20:44:11 <CDB-Man> Prfect; upon posting, if you select a placeholder account, an error dialog pops up saying placeholder accoutn selected
20:44:24 <CDB-Man> so posting is blocked, the only annoyance is that it clutters the list
20:45:54 <warlord> CDB-Man, You tried posting an invoice and selecting a placeholder account? Interesting. Honestly, it shouldn't show up in the list. Please file a bug report on that.
20:45:56 <warlord> Thanks.
20:45:58 <warlord> Gotta run.
20:46:26 <CDB-Man> Indeed, it appears in the list, but you get a warning that it is a placeholder
20:46:31 <CDB-Man> Will file a report
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20:58:38 <warlord> thanks.
20:58:41 <warlord> Later.
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