2019-05-02 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:36:02 <peanutbutterandcrackers> I just realized that after an execution of my script (which writes invoices to my gnucash file successfully so far); the consequent executions are throwing the following error:
00:36:12 <peanutbutterandcrackers> *subsequent, I mean
00:36:43 <peanutbutterandcrackers> * 10:13:18 WARN <gnc.backend.xml> Invalid timestamp in data file. Look for a 'entry:entered' entry with a date of 1969-12-31 or 1970-01-01.
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00:38:29 <peanutbutterandcrackers> It seems the error message has been repeated 18 times - exactly twice the amount of customers I added an invoice for. Perhaps it has something to do with that?
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00:51:44 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Can somebody also please explain to me the parameters that this function takes: https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Invoice.html#gaf1d8d2004cc736b0fa62cd23033ab77f ? Thank you! (I am very confused as to what the `Transaction* txn` means)
00:58:07 <peanutbutterandcrackers> I am also confused as to what 'exch' means (exhcnages and refunds?)
00:58:21 <peanutbutterandcrackers> and what the last parameter 'num' is supposed to be
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04:19:11 <peanutbutterandcrackers> jralls, Hello there, could you please explain Lines 168-169 from https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/master/bindings/python/example_scripts/simple_business_create.py please? I can see that you are listed as one of the contributors. I really need to figure it out, and I am all out of my depths.
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05:07:57 <peanutbutterandcrackers> So, I figured it out. All of it. The only problem that still remains is the timestamp error thrown on successive execution of the script on the same file. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
05:08:00 <peanutbutterandcrackers> This is the error:
05:08:22 <peanutbutterandcrackers> * 14:53:07 WARN <gnc.backend.xml> Invalid timestamp in data file. Look for a 'entry:entered' entry with a date of 1969-12-31 or 1970-01-01.
05:08:32 <peanutbutterandcrackers> (repeated a couple of times)
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05:26:51 <gjanssens> peanutbutterandcrackers: what function are you using to create the invoice entries ?
05:27:59 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, InvoiceEntry = gnucash_business.Entry(GNCBook, Invoice)
05:28:25 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, And for invoice itself: Invoice = gnucash_business.Invoice(GNCBook, GNCBook.InvoiceNextID(GNCCustomer), NPR, GNCCustomer)
05:28:28 <gjanssens> Oh, right. And do you also call invoice_entry.SetDateEntered(datetime.datetime.now()) ?
05:28:40 <gjanssens> You could try omitting that one.
05:29:09 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, No sir, I haven't done that
05:29:24 <gjanssens> Then do so.
05:29:26 <gjanssens> :)
05:30:16 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Okay. I will. Just a sec. :)
05:30:50 <peanutbutterandcrackers> It is strange that I can see the date entry's date on the invoice to be the same date as the invoice itself; still I will go ahead and try.
05:33:49 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, Ooooh! Thank you! It worked!!!!!
05:33:54 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, You're the best!
05:34:52 <gjanssens> GnuCash stores two dates per entry: a date (which is what the user enters for the entry) and a date_entered (the time the entry was entered)
05:35:14 <gjanssens> The former can be any date, the latter should be whenever the entry is created.
05:35:50 <peanutbutterandcrackers> And because I wasn't entering anything it was using the unix epoch!?
05:35:51 <gjanssens> And you're welcome
05:36:57 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Thank you for such an awesome software, BTW. I am currently writing a script and I will have a few more questions that I will be asking around. I hope to get your guidance
05:37:05 <peanutbutterandcrackers> ..then too. :)
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06:29:53 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Question: When I add an invoice for a customer, and immediately process the payment (as in case of a cash purchase), why does the payment happen first and the invoicing later - it seems to be so in the customer report. v2.6.16
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06:40:20 <gjanssens> peanutbutterandcrackers: I'm not sure, but I believe if transactions happen on the same day and their num fields are the same credits are sorted before debits
06:41:44 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, I see. Thank you. I have stumbled into another issue. I set AutoPay = True for processing payments (which I do with GNCCustomer.ApplyPayment(Transaction, GList, PostedAccount, TransferAccount, AmountPaid, Changes_Refunds, PaymentDate, Memo, Num, AutoPay) ) and I got the following errors:
06:42:00 <peanutbutterandcrackers> * 16:25:24 WARN <GLib-GObject> invalid unclassed pointer in cast to 'QofInstance'
06:42:00 <peanutbutterandcrackers> * 16:25:24 CRIT <qof> qof_instance_get_book: assertion 'QOF_IS_INSTANCE(inst)' failed
06:42:00 <peanutbutterandcrackers> * 16:25:24 WARN <GLib-GObject> invalid unclassed pointer in cast to 'QofInstance'
06:42:00 <peanutbutterandcrackers> * 16:25:24 WARN <GLib-GObject> invalid unclassed pointer in cast to 'QofInstance'
06:42:00 <peanutbutterandcrackers> * 16:25:24 CRIT <qof> qof_instance_get_book: assertion 'QOF_IS_INSTANCE(inst)' failed
06:42:00 <peanutbutterandcrackers> * 16:25:24 WARN <GLib-GObject> invalid unclassed pointer in cast to 'QofInstance'
06:42:33 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Whereas the execution before this one - when AutoPay was set to False, the warnings weren't seen.
06:43:28 <warlord> Did you run it with a valid Customer object?
06:43:52 <peanutbutterandcrackers> warlord, Yes sir! It works just fine - it's just the errors
06:44:02 <peanutbutterandcrackers> As in they're just warnings, it seems
06:44:36 <peanutbutterandcrackers> With autopay set to false, things seem to work just fine. No errors.
06:44:43 <peanutbutterandcrackers> *error messages
06:45:30 <warlord> Well, the fact that a pointer isn't being cast properly COULD be a runtime error, too. I'm not familiar with the AutoPay option (it's after my time) so I don't know what different code path it might be taking.
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06:45:58 <warlord> Not sure if you saw my last response:
06:45:59 <warlord> Well, the fact that a pointer isn't being cast properly COULD be a runtime error, too. I'm not familiar with the AutoPay option (it's after my time) so I don't know what different code path it might be taking.
06:46:41 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Do you think I should be cautious of losing my data or anything else? Or do you think this might be harmless?
06:48:18 <warlord> I honestly don't know.
06:48:18 <warlord> I don't use the python bindings.
06:48:19 <warlord> I would check the resulting data very carefully to ensure it's working as expected.
06:48:19 <warlord> Compare it to the GUI
06:49:03 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Hmmm... I see. Perhaps gjanssens or jralls could provide their input on the matter when they come around, as they seem to have contributed python scripts in the main source repo
06:49:20 <peanutbutterandcrackers> warlord, Thank you for your help. I appreciate it
06:54:42 <gjanssens> peanutbutterandcrackers: my contribution to the python bindings is very limited so I don't know all the details either.
06:55:21 <gjanssens> The main contributor is likely still present on the gnucash-devel mailing list so you may get more answers if you ask there as well.
06:56:35 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, Do you think this is something serious? Hmm... I haven't joined any mailing list so far. (still a n00b at a lot of these things) What should I do?
06:56:54 <gjanssens> As for the issue, I also don't know.
06:57:03 <warlord> peanutbutterandcrackers, https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
06:57:10 <gjanssens> It seems you have run into a code path that's not reached during normal gui use.
06:57:47 <peanutbutterandcrackers> warlord, Thank you. I will look into it.
06:58:01 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, curioser and curioser
06:58:13 <gjanssens> It may be the gui application uses the invoice payment functions instead, but I don't have time to look at that in more detail unfortunately.
07:01:04 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, It's all right. However, might I ask you why, in https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/master/bindings/python/example_scripts/simple_invoice_insert.py, you use def gnc_numeric_from_decimal(decimal_value) and why Decimal in general? What kind of number does gnucash use?
07:01:24 <peanutbutterandcrackers> I realize that by the time I am done, I might be capable of writing a wiki for gnucash-python-fu :D
07:01:55 <gjanssens> peanutbutterandcrackers: that would make for a very good contribution :)
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07:02:52 <peanutbutterandcrackers> gjanssens, I would love to do so! If my level of knowledge reaches such a point. However, I still don't understand the kind of numbers that GNUCash uses. It seems that it use GncNumeric numbers (it's own type). Any explanations, please?
07:02:57 <gjanssens> gnucash internally uses rationals (coded in a class called GncNumeric)
07:03:44 <peanutbutterandcrackers> rationals? I'm sorry I haven't heard of that kind of numbers (in computers) - still a n00b, sorry
07:03:46 <gjanssens> The motivation is to avoid rounding in calculations.
07:04:39 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Hmm...? Is there any good resource to help me understand rationals?
07:04:41 <gjanssens> A rational is a mathematical number type, which exist of a numerator and a denominator. 1/100, 15/43, 100/1000 are all rational numbers
07:04:54 <gjanssens> It's as simple as that
07:05:14 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Ah! I see. So how does a rational differ from floating point integers? I'm curious.
07:05:31 <peanutbutterandcrackers> And does Python's Decimal have something to do with rationals?
07:06:12 <gjanssens> 15/43 is an exact value, however if you execute the actual division, you get 0,3488372093023256... which is no longer exact because it would have an infinite number of digits
07:06:24 <gjanssens> Trying to represent that in a floating point number would require rounding.
07:07:04 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Ah! I see. So does that mean that even though I see "1903.28" in gnucash, it is actually something else?
07:07:16 <gjanssens> It may be
07:08:08 <gjanssens> If you entered it as 1903.28, then it's exactly that. Internally gnucash would represent this as 190328/100.
07:08:40 <gjanssens> If it's the result of a complex calculation it may have been rounded to be able to display it with 2 decimals.
07:09:50 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Wow. That is neat! Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.
07:10:53 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Is there any chance that the main python binding contributors might come around to IRC?
07:19:29 <chris> peanutbutterandcrackers: no
07:22:29 <peanutbutterandcrackers> chris, That's comforting Haha :D Any chance you might have some ideas as to the issue?
07:23:05 <chris> no, some time ago I learned basic python but I decided to grow up and learn scheme instead :)
07:23:32 <peanutbutterandcrackers> lol Can guile do all the stuff python can do - with gnucash?
07:23:41 <chris> yes, and more
07:24:47 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Really!? Cool! I was thinking of learning guile as well. That should encourage me. Is there a wiki of guile-bindings to gnucash? I was under the impression that guile was only used mostly for report generation
07:25:04 <chris> majority C/C++ functions are exposed to guile; they may be exposed to python too but there's less code, hence less known valid code
07:26:45 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Oh... I see. Thank you. Please do point me to some resources. I need to go for now. Thanks for all the help, everyone. :)
07:27:49 <chris> you've found majority of resources. I think it'll be nice to have a knowledgeable python person on the team so don't be discouraged; you can write documentation too
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07:51:48 <gjanssens> chris: concerning the guile vs python battle, here's something I have always wondered about:
07:52:10 <gjanssens> We currently use guile from within gnucash the application
07:54:54 <gjanssens> Is it currently also possible to write stand-alone guile scripts that uses the gnucash engine to do stuff ?
07:55:11 <gjanssens> A bit like the example scripts in the python-bindings directory
07:55:49 <gjanssens> If that's possible a couple of example scripts in our source tree would be very useful.
08:04:08 <warlord> gjanssens, it certainly USED to be the case you could write standalone guile scripts.
08:06:43 <gjanssens> warlord: I suspected as much. However the guile code has been tossed around *a lot* and I don't see any example scripts we could use to test whether it still works
08:09:46 <warlord> gjanssens, True. I don't know if it *still* works. And even when it did, I feel like there was no equivalent to python's session.open()
08:11:05 <gjanssens> Hmm, that would be a basic requirement to work on gnucash files, no ?
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08:12:47 <warlord> recall that a while ago "gnucash" was a guile script.
08:12:58 <warlord> but it was designed to be the gui app
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08:16:36 <gjanssens> Yep, a long time ago...
08:17:05 <gjanssens> When I got involved, most of what is C/C++ now was already C then
08:17:29 <gjanssens> The only particularity was that it required a launcher script to prepare a proper environment
08:17:47 <gjanssens> That's now handled by a configuration file instead (/etc/gnucash/environment)
08:19:39 <gjanssens> The main question is whether a guile script can effectively use the engine to manipulate a gnucash data file without requiring a gui app startup first.
08:20:12 <gjanssens> *That* is the power of the current python bindings
08:20:56 <gjanssens> (Although the python bindings could equally be used to write scripts for use from inside of gnucash. We do have an interpreter integrated...)
08:21:44 <gjanssens> To be clear I don't want gnucash code functionality to depend on scripting languages, not guile, not python. That really makes porting very difficult.
08:22:22 <gjanssens> But allowing scripting languages to use the gnucash engine (or "libgnucash" in a broader sense) to work with gnucash data files is great.
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08:42:33 <chris> gjanssens Well first of all I don't actually know how to *launch* python scripts which access the API -- "python script.py" whereby script.py has "import gnucash"?
08:44:18 <chris> I wouldn't have a clue how guile scripts can access the engine similarly; I guess it's possible
08:44:45 <gjanssens> chris: yes that's about all that's required for python to do it's thing.
08:44:58 <gjanssens> And I don't know either for guile
08:45:30 <gjanssens> But as we suggest to our users gnucash is scriptable via python or guile, it would be nice if we also knew how to actually do it in guile :)
08:48:35 <chris> it would be nice to be able to do so, we'd be able to do run reports offline
08:49:34 <warlord> Like I said, I don't think the session.open API is directly exposed to guile.
08:49:46 <chris> but why is it exposed to Python?
08:49:51 <chris> or, how?
08:50:15 <warlord> The python-specific .i file
08:50:37 <warlord> Why -- because how ELSE are you supposed to manipulate files if you can't open them?
08:50:52 <warlord> The better question is why python AND why not guile? That, I believe, is historical.
08:51:00 <chris> ^ok my typo
08:51:44 <chris> gnucash_core.i doesn't seem too tied to python
08:52:47 <warlord> chris, bindings/python/gnucash_core.i
08:53:04 <warlord> sounds pretty python-specific to me ;)
08:53:31 <chris> sure but the contents aren't
08:53:35 <gjanssens> exactly
08:53:43 <chris> it's gnucash_core.py which is full of session magic
08:54:05 <gjanssens> I think it got there because whoever started the python bindings created gnucash_core.i
08:54:07 <warlord> chris, sure -- which implies we COULD expose the APIs to guile -- we just don't at the moment.
08:54:20 <gjanssens> And hence it's not shared (yet)
08:54:58 <gjanssens> It may be as simple as asking swig to generate guile wrappers from that same file to get us started
08:56:17 <chris> this would be nice indeed
08:56:44 <chris> mikee and maf.king would love some hmrc glue
08:57:33 <chris> "$guile vat-report.scm --book book.gnucash --year 2019 --export csv"
08:58:17 <gjanssens> Yeah, that would be awesome :)
08:59:58 <warlord> sounds cool :)
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12:28:04 <jralls> peanutbutterandcrackers: As for gjanssens my contributions to the python bindings are mostly merging pull requests from others. I've never actually used them either. The person here with the best knowledge of them is mikee.
12:30:54 <peanutbutterandcrackers> jralls, Oh, okay. Thank you. I hope I'll be able to consult mikee soon enough
12:31:17 <jralls> peanutbutterandcrackers, gjanssens, warlord: However, the python bindings just wrap C functions. All of those warnings and errors are created by g_log calls in engine or gobject as a result of QOF_IS_INSTANCE.
12:32:13 <peanutbutterandcrackers> I did try setting AutoPay to False, again, and the warnings were gone. If that gives some insight.
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12:38:39 <jralls> peanutbutterandcrackers: Floating point numbers on computers have a fundamental problem beyond what gjanssens explained: It's impossible to represent decimal fractions exactly in pure binary, so no floating point value is correct beyond 6 significant digits or so. An alternative form of decimal representation called Binary Coded Decimal exists, but it's very slow on processors that aren't designed to handle it in hardware. That was common 50 years
12:38:39 <jralls> ago but I think that today only the IBM mainframe architecture has BCD support.
12:40:22 <peanutbutterandcrackers> jralls, Ah, I see. That's quite interesting. Thank you for the information. (Now I have another starting point for a wikipedia-binge. :D )
12:40:45 <jralls> gjanssens, chris, warlord: Just make sure that prefix/share/gnucash/scm/2.2 is in GUILE_LOAD_PATH, prefix/lib/gnucash/scm/2.2/ccache is in GUILE_LOAD_COMPILED_PATH, and ld can find libgncmod*, then (use-modules gnucash foo) as usual.
12:41:10 <jralls> However, I don't know if QofSession is wrapped for guile.
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12:46:33 <jralls> peanutbutteroncrackers: I suppose you've found https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Python_Bindings. There are some examples at the bottom, though none have to do with business features.
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13:23:25 <warlord> jralls, yes, but most likely the python API hasn't been tested, or an object isn't being sent in correctly.
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13:40:55 <jralls> warlord: Maybe, but we use QOF_IS_INSTANCE and g_return_if_fail a lot in places where it's expected that they'll fail sometimes rather than as less drastic versions of assert. That creates a lot of alarming noise in the trace file.
13:44:25 * jralls isn't a big fan of assert. It's only useful if there's exhaustive testing done with DEBUG defined.
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13:59:18 * warlord nods
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23:36:53 <peanutbutterandcrackers> jralls, warlord, chris, gjanssens: I just had this idea that perhaps if I gave a bit more context as to the code, it might give you all better clues to work this thing out. So here is the section of the code:
23:36:57 <peanutbutterandcrackers> if customerHasPaid:
23:36:57 <peanutbutterandcrackers> # (Ref: https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Owner.html#ga66a4b67de8ecc7798bd62e34370698fc)
23:36:57 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Transaction = None
23:36:57 <peanutbutterandcrackers> GList = None
23:36:57 <peanutbutterandcrackers> PostedAccount = ReceivableAC
23:36:59 <peanutbutterandcrackers> TransferAccount = gnc_get_account_by_name(GNCRootAc, "Assets:Current Assets:Petty Cash")
23:37:01 <peanutbutterandcrackers> AmountPaid = gnc_numeric_from_decimal(Decimal(PaidAmount))
23:37:03 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Refund = gnc_numeric_from_decimal(Decimal(0))
23:37:05 <peanutbutterandcrackers> PaymentDate = Date
23:37:09 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Memo = "Payment Received"
23:37:11 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Num = ""
23:37:13 <peanutbutterandcrackers> AutoPay = True
23:37:15 <peanutbutterandcrackers> GNCCustomer.ApplyPayment(Transaction, GList, PostedAccount, TransferAccount, AmountPaid, Refund, PaymentDate, Memo, Num, AutoPay)
23:38:14 <peanutbutterandcrackers> Perhaps the fact that I have used 'None' for Transaction and GList is also to be considered? But again, if AutoPay is set to False, there are no warnings.
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