2019-04-26 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:38:58 <Mechtilde> .
02:48:59 <fell> Moin!
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06:05:34 <nitpicker> Here the gnucash version I use in ubuntu 18.04.2 with LANG=de_CH.UTF-8: Build ID: 3.5+(2019-03-30)
06:05:35 <nitpicker> It appears that the "Ablgeichungsbericht" does not reflect any given start or end dates.
06:05:35 <nitpicker> When I try to narrow down the list by selecting the begin and end of the previous year (dropdown list), the result remains unimpressed.
06:05:35 <nitpicker> When I select distinct begin and end dates manually (calendar widget), those dates are not reflected either.
06:05:35 <nitpicker> Date selections in "Buchungsbericht", however, work as expected.
06:05:35 <nitpicker> Any ideas what the problem could be?
06:05:35 <nitpicker> If you need further information, please let me know.
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06:27:29 <chris> .
06:27:29 <gncbot> chris: Sent 9 hours and 51 minutes ago: <fell> I wrote https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Translation#Mask_Unintended_Line_Breaks special for you. ;-)
06:27:30 <gncbot> chris: Sent 7 hours and 49 minutes ago: <fell> ninja dist returns: ninja: error: '../../borrowed/guile-json/COPYING', needed by 'gnucash-3.5.tar.gz', missing and no known rule to make it
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06:29:48 <chris> fell ok my branch has COPYING; it seems it was ignored by git thus not uploaded during commit. guile-json is currently unused; if jralls prefers we can remove it and I'll amend ChartJS branch to build options json object differently.
06:30:26 <chris> fell the income-gst-statement strings could be also fixed by obeying max-line-width to be 78 chars as well, right?
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06:37:55 <chris> https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/virtual-machines for gjanssens
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09:20:39 * chris nearly finish modularising transaction.scm
09:40:30 <gjanssens> chris: thank for the Windows vm pointer
09:41:26 * gjanssens is still doing server migrations...
09:41:39 <gjanssens> The last part is the hardest: my mail system
09:42:16 <gjanssens> During migration I'm also converting from traditional VMs to containers which comes with its own set of peculiarities
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10:17:12 <chris> a lotta effort to test guile-2.2 on windows :-D
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10:57:30 <fell> chris, gjanssens: https://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2019/04/25.html#T23:10:25
10:58:40 <fell> and chris: I believe max-line-width is not significant.
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11:07:42 <chris> fell: yeah guile-json I'm not sure of jralls plans - IMHO it's harmless but then again I'm not an OSS guru
11:10:45 <chris> if we want ninja dist to work I guess removing from CMakeLists.txt is a way forward for now
11:10:57 <fell> Chris, I did not research, who and for which reason added COPYING to .gitignore.
11:14:45 <fell> It was in https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/4203a1a0ef288b17f8fd21a58c166e11783c33a0
11:17:02 <fell> and chris: for the future after adding/(re)moving files run ninja distcheck.
11:18:07 <chris> fell I actually did; I have COPYING locally which meant it worked well; but didn't realize COPYING wasn't committed to github
11:18:14 <chris> because of .gitignore
11:18:29 <fell> Ok, right.
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11:50:04 <fell> chris, can you help nitpicker? https://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2019/04/26.html#T06:05:34
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11:52:43 <chris> I have no idea what report he's having trouble with!
11:52:47 * chris not deutsche
11:54:06 <fell> "Buchungsbericht": "Transaction Report"
11:54:57 <fell> "Abgleichungsbericht": "Reconciliation Report"
11:55:52 <chris> ah there was demand from a bug reporter that the dates for Reconciliation Report must reflect the 'reconcile-date' instead of 'posting-date'
11:56:06 <chris> not my choice but that's what it filters on
11:56:45 <chris> 796614
11:56:55 <fell> I have no strong opiniion, but it should be documented.
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12:06:59 <chris> I had a thought for a future report-format instead of html for jralls... D3.js aka data-driven-documents <g>
12:13:12 <gjanssens> chris: ninja distcheck is different from ninja dist && ninja check
12:13:25 <gjanssens> It should find missing files in the generated dist tarball
12:13:39 <gjanssens> If it didn't catch the missing COPYING file, that's a bug in our build system
12:14:59 <gjanssens> fell: regarding the addition of COPYING to the .gitignore list that is still from the autotools era
12:15:59 <gjanssens> Part of the autotools setup would automatically add a COPYING file in the source tree (and it would eventually end up in the dist file)
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12:17:48 <fell> gjanssens, it is no bug in his build system, because the file localy exists. But because of .gitignore, it becomes not part of the repo and my distcheck failed.
12:18:52 <gjanssens> fell: perhaps indeed.
12:19:40 <gjanssens> Anyway, cmake doesn't automatically add that COPYING file any more and we don't really need one. We have a LICENSE file to explain our license.
12:20:35 <gjanssens> However guile-json is a borrowed source with its own license. I think we should add it to our dist tarball and even install it (if we have code that effectively uses it)
12:21:01 <gjanssens> To make it clear it relates only to guile-json I would rename it COPYING.guile-json though.
12:22:03 <chris> gjanssens: currently none because chartJS is unmerged
12:22:41 <chris> fell the reconcile-report date-filter is clearly documented in the opening paragraph when the report is run
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12:24:19 <gjanssens> chris: in that case it should only distributed in borrowed/guile-json, not installed
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12:30:01 <chris> gjanssens: oh I don't really know CMake that well to understand the difference. In any case I'd like a conclusion regarding this module should stay or go, because it effects chartJS branch.
12:30:10 <chris> with that, i'm now off
12:30:36 <chris> if you like trep-modularise please let me know
12:31:16 <fell> The content of the file is GPL3.
12:43:09 <fell> gjanssens, can you review .gitignore, because you know better, which entries (autotools, intltools, ..) no longer are relevant.?
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12:48:12 <gjanssens> fell: I don't know *that* much more than you, but I'll review it
12:48:46 <nitpicker> fell and chris thank you for pointing out the date filter. for the moment it looks like an rtfm-(non)-issue. please apologize
12:49:25 <fell> Aber gerne doch, nitpicker. :-)
12:49:49 <jralls> chris: My first thought about guile-json's COPYING was what's wrong with the copy we have in the root directory, but then I looked at it and it's GPLv3., so using it forces all of GnuCash to v3 instead of the v2-and-later we've used for the last 10 years or so.
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12:53:50 <jralls> gjanssens, chris, do either of you know offhand where options strings are extracted from SCM to fill in the GtkEntry in the dialog box?
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12:58:40 <gjanssens> jralls: gnc_option_set_ui_value_internal in gnucash/gnome-utils/dialog-options.c ?
12:59:51 <jralls> gjanssens: Thanks, just found it, and I actually want gnc_option_set_ui_value_string 'cause I'm trying to figure out how Chinese is getting turned into Latin1 gibberish.
13:00:28 <gjanssens> Ok
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13:54:09 <gjanssens> chris, jralls: GPLv3 is an odd choice for guile-json as a library :(
13:54:41 <gjanssens> It was changed in August last year: https://github.com/aconchillo/guile-json/commit/2699b2f64738d11e83f6454ebd6c3a3d8f18730e
13:55:33 <gjanssens> Can we relicense gnucash to GPLv3+ (not saying we should, just exploring the options) ?
13:56:16 <gjanssens> Would that mean getting consent from *all* contributors of which there is still lines of code in our source tree ?
13:56:45 <jralls> Yup. Just like when we added "or later" ~10 years ago.
13:58:16 <jralls> We could also use guile-json 1.1.1, which I guess was licensed under the LGPL.
13:59:05 <gjanssens> It was dual licensend: GPL/LGPL
14:00:42 <gjanssens> For what it's worth boost comes with a simple json serializer/deserializer, but I have no idea how hard it would be to use that instead of guile-json (I have currently no idea what chris is actually using guile-json for)
14:00:44 <jralls> But still v3. Hmm, the LGPL is about linking, but is using a guile module really linking?
14:01:15 <gjanssens> It would at least require us to write guile wrappers in swig for the required functionality...
14:01:31 <jralls> He's not. He's pushing it as an alternative to saving reports as scheme code.
14:01:36 <gjanssens> As for the linking story, no idea
14:01:48 <gjanssens> IANAL :(
14:02:23 <gjanssens> No he already used it before in his chartjs work (also unpushed still)
14:03:20 <gjanssens> As for report saving, I think that is something that in the end should move to C++ anyway, when the options system gets rewritten
14:03:29 <jralls> Same idea, that's for the stylesheets that are also currently saved as scheme forms.
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14:03:39 <Simon> you don't need approval from current contributors to change from GPLv2+ to GPLv3+
14:03:53 <jralls> Simon: Since when?
14:04:02 <Simon> because GPLv2+ means you can opt to only use GPLv3+
14:04:09 <gjanssens> jralls: oh ok (I'm really running behind on the current activities of gnucash)
14:04:21 <Simon> it's "GPLv2 or GPLv3 or GPLv4..." just like "GPL or LGPL"
14:06:38 <jralls> Simon: Are you an IP attorney, or just a sea-lawyer like me? (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sea%20lawyer)
14:07:12 <Simon> jralls: do you agree that "GPLv2+" means you can use it in a "GPLv3+" project?
14:07:57 <Simon> therefore nothing stops you using the entire source code in your new project of the same name
14:08:28 <Simon> dual GPL/BSD licensed code doesn't force people to continue supporting the other licence
14:08:58 <Simon> the code prior to the change will still be usable as GPLv2+
14:09:21 <jralls> SEa-lawyer, aye.
14:10:29 <Simon> why use licences at all if you don't want to understand how they can be used?
14:12:04 <gjanssens> jralls: guile-json appears to be introduced in the chartjs pr primarily to pass json encoded options to chartjs
14:12:34 <jralls> Simon, we're not talking about how the license can be used. We're talking about changing the terms under which the code was contributed. Unless you're a licensed attorney in the USA with specific experience in IP and Contract Law or can point to a legal opinion from Eben Moglen, the FSF lead attorney, your opinion is not going to protect anyone in court.
14:12:37 <gjanssens> Saving reports and stylesheets as json blobs is a much more recent use case
14:13:03 <jralls> gjanssens, Huh, I didn't remember that.
14:13:23 <gjanssens> Me neiter... I had to look it up :)
14:16:23 <jralls> Can you tell if the options are hierarchical or just keys and values? I didn't like the json idea for report options and stylesheets because I thought it overly complex for simple keys and values.
14:30:39 <gjanssens> From this comment on the pr: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/316#issuecomment-440895036 it seems chartjs uses nested (so hierarchical) key pairs
14:32:49 <gjanssens> As for report options and stylesheets, I do like json better than guile code...
14:33:25 <jralls> OK. That explains why he wants to use it for storing options and stylesheets, it's already done. And yes, anything is better than the gaping security hole of reading code from a file.
14:33:33 <gjanssens> And I believe our report options are hiearchical as well (though they probably could be flattened): they are organized in tabs.
14:33:52 <Simon> jralls: no, it's not changing the original terms, those still apply
14:34:10 <jralls> Simon, see my comment about lawyers.
14:34:15 <Simon> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AllCompatibility
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14:34:34 <gjanssens> BTW the boost module I was hinting at was this one: https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_55_0/doc/html/property_tree.html
14:34:46 <gjanssens> It also supports simple xml and ini files
14:35:22 <gjanssens> For storing report options all could work, though xml is very verbose to store in a db row.
14:36:59 <jralls> gjanssens: The other piece of that puzzle is moving the report options inside of the data file, remember?
14:37:53 <gjanssens> Yes, I know.
14:38:20 <gjanssens> Right now I'm just sharing some loose links I still had in the back of my head that could come in handy for these topics.
14:38:34 <gjanssens> No concrete solutions
14:39:57 <gjanssens> I thought of the property_tree code as a possible replacement for guile-json if the GPLv3 requirement would turn out to be a blocking issue.
14:40:29 <gjanssens> It's not a drop-in replacement by any means as it would require lots of glue code to make it accessible by our guile part.
14:42:25 <jralls> Unfortunately we need to get Guile out of the string business completely. scm_from_utf8_string in Guile2.2 on Windows takes each byte of a UTF-8 codepoint and converts it into a UTF32 code point, so everything becomes Latin1.
14:43:27 <gjanssens> I'm not sure I understand what you mean here?
14:43:44 <gjanssens> UTF32 is a 4-byte format, right ?
14:43:52 <gjanssens> So how is that Latin1 ?
14:44:50 <gjanssens> Or "becomes" Latin1 rather
14:45:06 <jralls> Right, and it's what Guile uses internally. The Codepoints between U+0080 and U+008f are the Latin1 characters from ISO-8860-1.
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14:48:11 <gjanssens> So as long as the converted string remains internal to guile, all is fine ? But when writing it out to file or getting it back into C++ the information that it's UTF32 gets lost ?
14:48:47 <jralls> So the UTF sequence 0xe4 0xbd 0xb3 which represents U+4f33 gets read into Guile as U+00e4 U+00bd U+00b3, turning 佳 into ä½³.
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14:50:00 <gjanssens> Ugh, that's worse than what I understood :(
14:50:04 <jralls> That's going *into* Guile.
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14:50:56 <gjanssens> So scm_from_utf8_string is actually completely broken on Windows...
14:51:13 <gjanssens> What's the guile-dev's opinion on this ?
14:51:31 <jralls> Just figured it out a minute ago...
14:52:14 <gjanssens> :) Oops too fast...
14:52:52 <jralls> There's another piece to understand before I flip over there. The utf8 *from* the GtkEntry is getting written correctly into the data file, presumably making the same round trip through Guile. Why does it work that way and not the other?
14:55:06 <gjanssens> Weird indeed
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15:51:21 <warlord> .
15:51:21 <gncbot> warlord: Sent 1 day, 18 hours, and 6 minutes ago: <fell> Can you tell me, who is the moderator of gnucash.de?
16:00:22 <warlord> fell, you mean the mailing list?
16:00:31 <fell> yes
16:00:38 <warlord> If you go to the listinfo page it should tell you at the bottom of the page who the moderator is.
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16:01:58 <fell> gnucash-de-owner at gnucash.org
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16:02:44 <fell> so I can ask there for the identity
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16:09:45 <warlord> fell, that is very odd...
16:11:00 <warlord> gnucash-de-owner is a meta-list, but I honestly can't tell you know is on it. I don/t know
16:11:50 <warlord> Ah, never mind. It's Chris Stimming (the owner). And then the moderators are usselmann.,, joerg, and volker
16:12:11 <warlord> that should have read usselmann.m
16:13:09 <fell> So we have no single point of failure...
16:14:28 <warlord> no. And if we need to update the owner we (I) can
16:14:31 <fell> And my blocked message (>400k) appeared after a few hours european night time.
16:15:39 <fell> Some users had asked for a updated 3.5 de.mo
16:19:19 <fell> Warlord, probably you should ask once a year, if they are still alive?
16:19:29 <fell> the mods
16:21:04 <warlord> I should probably do that on every list ;)
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16:21:19 <warlord> I feel the -de list is still pretty active. Don't know about the others...
16:22:25 <fell> Mark on tthe dutch, too
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17:01:48 <fell> Warlord, can you review https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists#New_Languages?
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17:40:00 <warlord> I'm not sure "Mailing List Reflectors" is really the right term. Maybe "Third-party web-based access"?
17:40:43 <warlord> Also, I feel that should come AFTER the mailman management info.
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17:54:05 <fell> Warlord, how about third-party web-based mirrors?
18:00:17 <warlord> Sure. Or Third-party alternative access methods?
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18:48:17 <fell> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/index.php?title=Mailing_Lists&type=revision&diff=15310&oldid=15307
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19:35:21 <jralls> @tell chris, gjanssens: Well, I was wrong about scm_from_utf8_string, it works OK. Very strangely when I stepped into https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/libgnucash/engine/kvp-scm.cpp#L95 I found myself in scm_from_locale_string() and that unsurprisingly did the wrong thing. Now to figure out why the compiler is being perverse.
19:35:21 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
19:35:43 <jralls> @tell gjanssens: Well, I was wrong about scm_from_utf8_string, it works OK. Very strangely when I stepped into https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/libgnucash/engine/kvp-scm.cpp#L95 I found myself in scm_from_locale_string() and that unsurprisingly did the wrong thing. Now to figure out why the compiler is being perverse.
19:35:43 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
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23:02:26 <chris> .
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