2019-01-17 GnuCash IRC logs
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09:23:29 <warlord> derek, yes, you have to expand to the right, not to the left.
09:24:32 <warlord> The description column will always expand to fill the full width of the window, so if you try to resize to the left then the columns will adjust, but as soon as you let go the desc column will increase to fill the width again.
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10:33:09 <warlord> Hey nimish -- you're spamming the channel with you constant join/quit messages every 10 minutes!
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12:49:05 <jralls> warlord, gjanssens: How about asking Linas to host the flatpak repo until warlord's construction work is done?
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12:51:16 <jralls> warlord, gjanssens: Alternatively, we could set up an AWS/Azure/Google Cloud/etc. instance for the repo. It would be a good use of the tip jar money.
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13:31:06 <warlord> AWS is pretty easy to set up. They even have a 1-year-free level of service, since we don't need a lot of computation, and it covers up to 30GB of storage. Just don't know what their data rates are beyond the free tier.
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13:32:54 <jralls> warlord: https://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html
13:34:43 <jralls> Looks like it would take a week of study just to figure out what are the right options.
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13:41:13 <warlord> LOL
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13:46:07 <warlord> So if we go with a t2.nano, 30GB storage, and estimate 100GB/mo of download, we're at $11.90/mo
13:46:39 <warlord> If we increase that 30G to 50G then it goes up to 13.90/mo
13:47:01 <warlord> I dont think we need a big server just for a web server. There's no computation going on.
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13:48:10 <jralls> Right. So we're looking at ~$200/year. Peanuts.
13:48:19 <warlord> jralls, I *believe* the t2.nano is the "free-for-12-months" service level, so we'd also save ~4.25/mo for the first year.
13:48:43 <jralls> A peanut. ;-)
13:49:13 <warlord> I wonder, does flatpak deal with 301 and 302 HTTP codes?
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13:50:23 <jralls> Couldn't we just provision it with flatpack.gnuacsh.org and have the domain follow the server around?
13:50:30 <warlord> Oh, sorry, it's the t2.micro that's free, not t2.nano
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13:52:37 <warlord> That makes it cheaper for the first year, down to 9.65/mo, but the 4.25 turns into 8.50, so after a year it'll go up to 18.15/mo
13:53:42 <jralls> Still cheaper than Comcast.
13:53:54 <jralls> GTG for a few minutes.
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13:54:14 <warlord> This does assume only 100GB/mo. I have no idea what the flatpak pull data will be.
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14:14:29 <jralls> warlord: So what would it be for a TB/month?
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14:29:17 <warlord> Whoa -- that takes it up to 92.81/mo!!
14:30:44 <warlord> Which isn't too surprsing; it's linear in #GB, so 9.65/100GB, 90.65/1000GB, 92.81/1TB=1024GB..
14:32:23 <warlord> jralls, do we really think it'll be a TB?
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14:36:58 <warlord> Even if it is, we're talking $100/mo for ~12 months (worst case).. So still only $1200.
14:37:18 <warlord> But it's still more than Comcast, at this point.
14:40:50 <jralls> warlord: No, I don't think it would be a TB/month. I don't think it will be even as much as nightly build downloads, which you're able to accommodate with your "straw".
14:41:20 <jralls> I just picked a huge number to give an upper limit estimate.
14:41:45 <warlord> I think you're right that people wont be using the nightly flatpaks, but if we do release flatpaks then I think it'll be used more.
14:42:03 <warlord> So, do you want to email -core to start the process or shall I? ;)
14:42:11 <warlord> might be better coming from you :)
14:42:56 <warlord> It would certainly be easy to set up an rsync of my flatpak repo up to AWS every night, and set a redirect from httpd over to the AWS instance.
14:43:08 <gjanssens> I wanted to chime i,
14:43:10 <gjanssens> in
14:43:18 <jralls> Please do~
14:43:18 <warlord> gjanssens, oh?
14:43:23 <gjanssens> Pretty late to the discussion but I was afk
14:43:24 <warlord> yes, please do.
14:43:49 <warlord> Still pretty early here :)
14:43:53 <gjanssens> Well, I have two servers at my disposal with almost unlimited volume
14:44:07 <gjanssens> one is in a datacenter so it's a pretty fat pipe
14:44:17 <gjanssens> the other one in below my desk so to speak
14:44:42 <gjanssens> I have been considering for quite some time to set up an EU mirror of most insfrastructure
14:44:46 <warlord> And you're not charged data usage fees?
14:44:51 <gjanssens> No
14:44:56 <gjanssens> Well, yes,
14:45:05 <gjanssens> but I pay those now anyway for other reasons
14:45:23 <gjanssens> I believe what we need for gnucash can easily be included in those
14:45:28 <warlord> But if we add 100-1000GB/mo download, how would it affect your data usage fees?
14:45:44 <gjanssens> Gimme a sec...
14:46:26 <warlord> Once I'm at the new location, I have no data limit or data fees, so really from my standpoint it's just a temporary situation. Of course having an EU mirror would certainly be nice, but I don't know how to set up flatpak to deal with mirrors.
14:47:01 <gjanssens> https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/ex41-ssd
14:47:09 <gjanssens> Those are the specs of the server in my data center
14:47:32 <gjanssens> It's "unlimited data" which in small print says is 30TB/month
14:47:53 <gjanssens> 3.38Tb bandwidth
14:48:20 <gjanssens> I don't have the same bandwidth at home but it also is quasi unlimited in data
14:48:40 <warlord> Oh, 30TB/mo is pretty darn good, especially if you're not using it. I'm only using ~1+TB/mo total, and that includes things like netflix, etc.
14:48:58 <warlord> I do expect flatpak to get used a bit more.
14:49:04 <gjanssens> As it happens I will probably we doing server configurations in the next couple of weeks so this may be a good time to consider this.
14:49:11 <jralls> 30TB/month is close enough to unlimited for our purposes, I think.
14:49:28 <gjanssens> Should be
14:50:57 <warlord> Well, we can make yours the canonical flatpak repo URL.. or i can just redirect that URL to you.. or we can figure out how to do fp mirroring.
14:51:06 <gjanssens> I'm about to leave for the evening though. So you can think about it and we can discuss the further in the next couple of days if you like
14:51:33 <warlord> I'm fine using your server if you want us to.
14:51:38 <gjanssens> fp mirroring is as simple as synchronizing the repo to two servers
14:51:54 <warlord> But what URL do you put in the FP package?
14:52:09 <warlord> how do the clients know to access either site?
14:52:13 <gjanssens> Ah, that's indeed another question
14:52:52 <gjanssens> We'll have to investigate these things
14:53:03 <warlord> ok
14:53:05 <gjanssens> But not tonight
14:53:11 <warlord> No, I think we have time.
14:53:28 <gjanssens> Yeah, so do I
14:53:30 <jralls> Of course we have time.
14:53:34 <gjanssens> Got to go now :)
14:53:37 <gjanssens> TTYL!
14:53:38 <warlord> I'm just trying to be kind to my hosts. (in the real-world sense, not the computer snese)
14:53:43 <warlord> okay, have a good night
14:54:00 <jralls> Good night, gjanssens.
14:54:56 <jralls> warlord: I haven't mucked around in DNS config for a while so it's gotten hazy in my mind... but isn't there some sort of load balancing built into it?
14:55:15 <jralls> So that a particular domain can have multiple addresses?
14:56:50 <warlord> jralls, sure, but right now we're using "code" in the URL. I don't think we're going to mirror everything on 'code' into Geert's machine. Also, DNS round robin doesn't necessarily make sense. It would mean, for instance, that *I* might wind up getting sent over to Europe instead of to my own system on my LAN.
14:57:08 <warlord> Then again, an Akamai-like system is expensive.
14:57:17 <warlord> I wonder how Fedora does their mirror lookups?
14:59:14 <jralls> Probably the Akamai way. Red Hat wasn't a small company *before* last December and now they're IBM.
15:00:44 <jralls> A better example to look into would be Debian.
15:04:02 <warlord> fedora has been doing it for a while.. how does debian do it?
15:08:59 <jralls> Dunno. I picked them because they're less corporate, though Canonical clearly has a lot of influence.
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15:14:34 <warlord> still, mirrors.fedoraproject.org seems to do something... interesting..
15:14:38 <warlord> but i dont know how.
15:17:01 <jralls> IIUC all mirrors like that operate with redirects: The host(s?) at mirrors.foo.org look up a "real" server from a list in the same network-geographical region as the requestor at random and redirect the request.
15:18:58 <jralls> Sourceforge uses something similar except they pay their mirror sites. Fedora might too, since they're corporate. GNU and kernel.org get the space and bandwidth donated.
15:19:56 <warlord> we could certainly attempt a geo-based redirect.
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15:39:37 <warlord> Just as a point of reference, code served 133 GB of data in October, 2018. Slightly less than that in November and December.
15:39:52 <warlord> (this is service via HTTP -- other methods not included)
15:43:33 <derek> in the trading accounts, when you have a negative balance that's the profit from a trade correct? so in order to realize your profit you need to have a different transaction to "zero" the trading account into an income account?
15:46:17 <derek> do you do this per trade? or maybe like once a month?
15:46:55 <warlord> the trading-account system should do that for you automatically on each trade. When you sell the stock, that transaction should have multiple splits that record the realized gain/loss
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16:15:28 <derek> I just attempted a test buy/sell for a stock, it did not calculate any profit/loss for me automatically, it just did 4 lines, debit/credit for cash from trading account and cash account, and debit/credit for the shares from trading account to stock account
16:16:17 <derek> in my test it left me with -$4,000 in my trading currency account
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16:19:35 <derek> which represents the profit, I can manually move it to an income account
16:22:33 <derek> is that normal behaviour?
16:23:01 <derek> my example it was easy to see the profit/loss because it was one account, but if you do more transactions it would get muddy
16:23:35 <derek> like say 3 different stocks some with profits some with losses, how do you keep track?
16:39:12 <jralls> derek: No, trading accounts are not for realized gains, they're for unrealized gains. See https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Trading_Accounts and for a detailed explanation, http://www.mscs.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html. See http://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=3&lang=C&doc=guide for how to manage stock investments and book realized gains.
16:45:21 <derek> thanks for the links, I've read most of that already, I guess I'm confused about the Adjusted cost base section in selingers tutorial, in it he calculates and realizes his profits on the sale of a share, moving the profit to "realized gain" income account
16:47:29 <derek> the issue I have with that method is that the CAD$ account is being used for only one asset type, he's also calculating the ACB manually
16:48:18 <derek> by deviding the CAD balance by the shares
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16:49:18 <derek> but what if your cash balance represents 3 or 4 assets, or even other currency trades, the number would almost be meaningless from a profit/loss perspective no?
16:55:45 <derek> other than for total profit/loss, I guess if you're not concerned about where you made the money but just that you did make the money
17:01:16 <jralls> Right, that's all you'll get from a trading account total once you're dealing with more than two currencies or securities. The problem of course is that most investors and indeed most tax authorities are very interested in where you made or lost the money.
17:04:04 <derek> ok, maybe I'm missing something then. I'll read about lots, I thought it said only to use them for FIFO/LIFO but maybe I missed something
17:07:18 <jralls> FIFO, actually. The other policies, including LIFO, were never implemented.
17:08:58 <jralls> So you have to do it by hand. If you're lucky your broker's computer keeps track of it for you.
17:09:50 <derek> ok, is it better to turn off trading accounts then?
17:12:42 <jralls> Well, I've never used them and I run several portfolios (in separate books) with around 100 total securities active at any one time. But I also don't use average cost basis as that's only become legal in the US around 6 years ago.
17:13:46 <derek> ah, I've never dealt with FIFO with investments, in Canada the CRA just asks for the ACB
17:21:40 <jralls> For individuals the US defaults to FIFO but one can designate to one's broker a particular lot to sell from when placing the sell order to fiddle the taxable amount. The original plan when they introduced ACB was to push everyone in that direction but because we also tax differently depending on holding period they backed off of that.
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17:22:44 <derek> you guys like to tax day traders heavier vs long time holders?
17:23:57 <derek> I remember they were talking about that in the news, guys in canada are using their tax free savings accounts for day trading and earning a living tax free haha
17:25:13 <derek> the government was getting all twitchy about it, I think they added rules now though
17:25:16 <jralls> Yeah, anything held up to a year gets taxed as ordinary income, over a year is "long term capital gains" at around 1/2 the ordinary income rate.
17:26:52 <jralls> You can do that here in a tax-free or tax-deferred retirement account.
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17:41:43 <derek> jralls: are you a gnuCash dev?
17:41:53 <jralls> Yes.
17:42:25 <derek> right on, how long you been working on it?
17:42:55 <jralls> I think around 10 years.
17:44:13 <derek> long time, I really like the project, lots of learning materials
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17:46:50 <jralls> Thanks. There have been a lot of people who've contributed over the years.
17:47:15 <jralls> Though thanks to chris I'm not the newcomer anymore. ;-)
17:47:57 <derek> haha
17:48:14 <derek> after 10 years I'd think you were the senior
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17:49:26 <jralls> No, that would be linas, though he doesn't develop much anymore. He's one of the original authors.
17:52:57 <derek> I've always wanted to contribute to a project but never really got into it. When I was younger I was really into it but never really developed my skills like I wanted
17:53:16 <derek> I couldn't even compile gnuCash haha, had to get the deb from a third party
17:55:06 <jralls> OK. There are other ways to help. We have a pretty lively group of users on the mailing list who answer questions from other users. We always need documenters.
17:56:03 <derek> oh yeah? do you have a link?
17:57:13 <jralls> For the mailing list? gnucash-users@gnucash.org, subscribe at https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user, wiki page https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists.
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19:09:15 <derek> has anyone talked about making a web version of this program?
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20:43:23 <jralls> derek: Yes, but they usually realize pretty quickly that it's not a good idea.
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22:01:05 <derek> no? security issues?
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