2018-12-06 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:26:17 <tycoone7> Hi guys, I have been using gnu cash for long time now. Just wanted if someone can make a custom report for me where i can print the pending bills for vendors as well as customers.
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03:07:12 <gjanssens> .
03:12:42 <fell> gjanssens: A few thoughts about Po_Based_Documentation_Translations:
03:13:28 <fell> Do you know anything about xliff?
03:13:54 <fell> Might it be more apropriate for xml than po?
03:14:43 <fell> Do we want to stay with xml/Docbook?
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03:25:58 <gjanssens> fell: I don't know much about xliff. But from what I read about so far it looks like it's way more verbose.
03:26:25 <gjanssens> That is there's a lot of xml code surrounding the actual original message and the translated message.
03:26:47 <gjanssens> IMO that means much more typing to do for the translator and hence much more chances for errors.
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03:27:35 <gjanssens> Of course I assume here the translator will work on the xliff file directly. It's likely a good xliff tool hides all of that away.
03:27:35 <fell> Not the translator, but its software.
03:27:50 <gjanssens> But I have no experience with any such tools so I can't compare
03:28:27 <gjanssens> As for our document format, we have discussed this several times in the past.
03:28:49 <gjanssens> And so far there hasn't been enough compelling reason to switch to another format.
03:29:26 <gjanssens> They all have pros and cons and the currently active documenters/translators seem to be fine with docbook.
03:29:43 <fell> I just came over https://wiki.oasis-open.org/oaxal
03:30:48 <fell> but I don't know about implementations
03:32:07 <gjanssens> Wow, my mind has trouble grokking with formal specs like that atm...
03:33:03 <gjanssens> I think my main reservation with xliff is that it's coming from the java world (which indeed is heavily xml based)
03:33:20 <gjanssens> I don't have anything against java per se.
03:33:39 <gjanssens> However it's a completely different world, with different customs, build systems, tooling,...
03:34:06 <gjanssens> Going that route would be a steep learning curve to get it all set up properly.
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03:35:21 * gjanssens has one little home brewn java project set up years ago
03:35:31 <gjanssens> It needs to perform one single task once a year
03:35:48 <gjanssens> Each time I cross my fingers it will continue to work.
03:36:23 <fell> I came to this thoughts by a subthreshold feeling, po might not be the right tool for xml
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03:36:39 <gjanssens> It breaks about every two years and it takes me hours and hours to fix it again as I continue to get lost in the configuration stuff
03:37:02 <gjanssens> And this year I didn't even get it completely fixed, just enough to work around the breakage another way.
03:37:35 <gjanssens> But I digress
03:38:10 <gjanssens> That was just to give you a glimpse of what we are facing if we decide to embrace java based workflows
03:39:40 <gjanssens> You'll have to repeat to me why po would not be ok ?
03:40:16 <fell> See our italian docs
03:41:20 <gjanssens> What about them exactly ?
03:42:47 <fell> If you would unfreeze, you would now get est. 90% en and 10% it
03:44:10 <gjanssens> Right. So the issue here is that po prefers to offer a full document which may not be translated at all, rather than incomplete information but fully translated.
03:44:57 <gjanssens> How would that be different with xliff ?
03:45:07 <fell> you switch from http to https and all sections with URLs break.
03:46:13 <gjanssens> Again, how would that be different with xliff ?
03:46:30 <gjanssens> Or any other managed translation system for that matter ?
03:47:27 <fell> I have no experience with xliff, I just saw it this days.
03:47:31 <gjanssens> I believe by the way the url breakage can be solved in several ways
03:47:53 <gjanssens> As you suggested yourself in the past, we can make them xml entities
03:48:42 <fell> Yes, we should
03:48:44 <gjanssens> Or we can use some itstool magic to indicate url markup must be extracted as separate translation id's
03:49:05 <gjanssens> I think the latter is even better.
03:49:17 <fell> Right, I should read itstools documentation
03:49:42 <gjanssens> True, unfortunately it's pretty sparse :(
03:50:26 <gjanssens> So my current knowledge of its comes partly from reading the code and their configuration files
03:50:46 <gjanssens> And I don't claim to have understood all of it yet either
03:52:35 <gjanssens> And for completeness, I won't claim po/its in itself can cover *all* of our requirements. But until now I still think it can cover a large part.
03:53:19 <gjanssens> To get a complete set, we'll have to make it part of a wider workflow with possible pre- and postprocessing components.
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03:54:22 <gjanssens> And perhaps it would be useful to discuss this with communities other than the gnucash one.
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03:54:40 <fell> I just see, its changelog on my system is from 2013
03:55:10 <gjanssens> I think most communities struggle with documenation translations in some way and have been looking for solutions.
03:55:24 <gjanssens> Its changelog ?
03:56:34 <fell> in /usr/share/doc/packages/itstool
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03:57:25 <gjanssens> itstool is being actively developed. The most recent release is 2.0.5, on October 28 this year
03:57:30 <gjanssens> What version do you have on your system ?
03:58:03 <fell> Oh, it is itstool 2.0.2
03:58:28 <gjanssens> Yeah, it seems many distro's are stuck on that version for some reason...
03:58:50 <gjanssens> Though F29 is currently at 2.0.4
04:00:33 <fell> luc14n0: Do you know, why opensuse ships only itstool 2.0.2?
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04:03:17 <fell> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:Gianvacca/itstool has an successful build of 2.0.4
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09:02:55 <jralls> gjanssens: Maybe next time it breaks you should spend the time rewriting it in Python instead of wrestling with Java. ;-)
09:05:59 <gjanssens> jralls: Absolutely. That was my conclusion this year as well...
09:06:12 <gjanssens> It's on my list :)
09:06:30 <gjanssens> You have another Round TUIT for me ;)
09:06:55 <warlord> .
09:07:09 <gjanssens> (That was meant as a tongue in cheek question but I forgot the ?-mark...)
09:07:26 <jralls> You're amassing quite a stack! ;-)
09:08:13 * gjanssens uses them to build a Tower of Hanoi
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09:08:58 <gjanssens> The more you pile up, the harder it gets to solve the puzzle...
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09:10:42 <gjanssens> More seriously though has any of you got experience with performing xsl transformations from within python ?
09:11:04 <gjanssens> That's what my java project was basically about.
09:11:16 <warlord2> coming in late --- are you trying to replace fop?
09:11:42 <gjanssens> Query a db, and use the input to fill in a template xml file to eventually convert it to pdf using fop
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09:12:17 <jralls> No experience with that, sorry. Why not just use xsltproc directly?
09:12:22 <gjanssens> warlord2: no, it's actually about a non-gnucash, personal topic I mentioned earlier
09:12:38 <gjanssens> jralls: probably good enough in this case
09:12:48 <gjanssens> I hadn't started my investigation yet.
09:12:56 <warlord2> gjanssens: ah. sorry. just waking up
09:13:27 <gjanssens> I can do the db querying in python and pass it on to xsltproc instead. Thanks for the hint
09:13:41 <gjanssens> warlord2: np and good morning :)
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09:14:01 <warlord> thanks
09:14:01 <jralls> OTOH, libxml2 has python bindings in several flavors. lxml is in pypi so it's the easiest to install.
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09:14:40 <gjanssens> Oh well, I have a year before I need it again :D
09:14:50 <gjanssens> I should have figured something out by then
09:15:11 <jralls> https://lxml.de/extensions.html looks like fun: python in xsl in python...
09:15:45 <Mechtilde> and it is in Debian with python2 and python3
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09:18:49 <jralls> As for xliff, it seems to be what Microsoft uses natively. Apple uses ICU which has its own translation format. The FOSS world seems pretty solidly behind gettext.
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09:23:38 <gjanssens> Yeah that's indeed how the world seems to be divided
09:24:53 <jralls> Considering which world we live in ISTM we're most likely to find volunteer translators familiar with gettext tools so we should stick with that.
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09:42:05 <oozer> smash cat
09:42:10 <oozer> cam
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09:44:11 <gjanssens> jralls: good pragmatic thinking. I agree
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09:49:41 <oozer> sorry all wrong IRC channel
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