2018-11-04 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:43:51 <johncs> The import process is smart enough to guess at the second account associated with a transcation (sorry if my vocab is poor). I'm interested in taking a look at the code that powers that. Browsing around right now and hoping that I'll find my way to it, but anyone awake right now who knows where that lives in the codebase?
00:55:57 <johncs> Ahaha I think I found it, and I love the comment above the function: "The transaction matching heuristics are here." For posterity: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/6011749151793399727371db335a0e3dd9723d81/gnucash/import-export/import-backend.c#L592
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00:59:33 <johncs> Ah, actually I was wrong, though close. What I linked to is the code for determining whether two transactions are the same. Here is the account guessing code: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/6011749151793399727371db335a0e3dd9723d81/gnucash/import-export/import-backend.c#L1264
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02:47:53 <davidyon> How can I change the font size for Gnucash 3.3 on MacOS. The default Chinese font is too large for me. Thanks
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09:43:09 <jralls> .
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09:55:41 <gjanssens> Hey jralls: are you in Japan already ?
09:55:56 <gjanssens> Or checking in at the airport ?
10:21:08 <jralls> Neither. We'll leave for the airport in about an hour.
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10:36:51 <warlord> Have a safe trip, jralls
10:37:03 <jralls> Thanks.
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10:43:50 <chris> see you soon jralls :)
10:44:12 <jralls> chris: Hope so!
10:44:42 <jralls> chris: At least tomorrow we'll be in closer time zones. ;-)
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11:19:56 <gjanssens> Ok enjoy it!
11:21:17 <jralls> Time to go! I'll check back in later.
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12:18:32 <jralls> .
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13:19:38 <fell> @tell davidyon Read https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GTK3
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15:51:28 <Trollinator> Hey, is there a simpler way to use the GnuCash Android app than exporting the transactions and then importing them in desktop GnuCash?
15:51:41 <Trollinator> that seems a little inconvenient
15:55:03 <gjanssens> Trollinator: not that I know of. Note that although it has "GnuCash" in its name, the GnuCash for Android project is independently developed from the desktop application
15:55:52 <Trollinator> Oh, I see
15:56:35 <Trollinator> Well, kinda makes sense since it's likely written in Java and Desktop GnuCash isn't
15:58:40 <gjanssens> Indeed.
15:59:09 <gjanssens> My hope is one day we can have the core logic of gnucash isolated sufficiently it can be used on android as well
15:59:41 <gjanssens> Then only an android specific gui should be bolted on top of this
15:59:53 <gjanssens> That would allow much better cooperation between the two
16:00:19 <gjanssens> But that's way in the future as things stand now :(
16:00:43 <Trollinator> Is the core logic strongly tied to GTK etc.?
16:06:13 <gjanssens> We do have some mixup of corre logic in the gui indeed.
16:06:43 <gjanssens> The more difficult part though is that much of the logic is encoded in guile which as far as I understand is not available on android
16:07:32 <gjanssens> Our current goal (other than cleaning up after the Gtk3 port) is to sort out the core logic bits and convert it to a clean c++ api
16:07:48 <Trollinator> Oh, you want to move away from Scheme?
16:08:01 <gjanssens> For the core logic yes
16:08:25 <gjanssens> It will likely stay as an extension language
16:08:38 <Trollinator> I see
16:09:08 <gjanssens> But the current intertwining makes the code base to complicated for most potential contributors.
16:09:22 <Trollinator> FWIW, I'm not a fan of either Scheme or C++ (or C). But I'm not the one doing the work, so my opinion doesn't really matter
16:09:47 <CarwynNelson> I'm just reading the roadmap on the wiki at the moment
16:09:58 <CarwynNelson> how far is the project with the register rewrite?
16:11:12 <gjanssens> Well, we discussed the future language choice at length a few years back. And for now we stick to it. The code base is too big to change course very often.
16:11:34 <Trollinator> Write in Haskell and it'll be 1/5th as long ;-)
16:11:50 <gjanssens> CarwynNelson: the register rewrite has stalled somewhere right before the first 2.6.x release
16:12:19 <CarwynNelson> oke doke. Also - has there been any activity on the mailing list since yesterday? I re-subscribed again yesterday and I haven't seen any mails come through
16:12:53 <gjanssens> The Gtk3 work got in the way and unfortunately is still taking most of our time to this date
16:13:32 <gjanssens> For the Gtk3 port, I largely rewrote the register using Gtk's GtkLayout widget as a basis.
16:13:53 <gjanssens> But that was only meant as an intermediate towards a decent rewrite.
16:14:34 <gjanssens> If I had known before of the subtle issues it currently has I would probably have bitten the bullet back then and redone it completely as a GtkTreeView
16:15:07 <gjanssens> That's what Bob started in the 2.5 timeframe, but he couldn't solve some important performance issues.
16:15:32 <gjanssens> Probably because he tried to stay too close to the existing internal register model.
16:16:15 <gjanssens> Anyway... I will likely pick it up again for the 4.x series in the future. The changes would be to drastic to inflict on 3.x
16:16:40 <gjanssens> CarwynNelson: which mailing list exactly ?
16:16:45 <CarwynNelson> the development one
16:16:51 <gjanssens> I know there have been messages on gnucash-user
16:17:00 <fell> CarwynNelson: https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/
16:17:50 <gjanssens> The last message I saw on that list was from fell, around 11 CET
16:18:25 <gjanssens> Trollinator: I have never written anything in haskell, so I can't comment on that.
16:18:37 <gjanssens> Is it available on Android and iOS?
16:19:52 <Trollinator> I don't know. I suspect so
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16:21:17 <Trollinator> So yeah, it seems to be good enough for production use. https://wiki.haskell.org/Android
16:21:41 <Trollinator> I'm concluding that from the fact that there's a company writing Android Games in Haskell
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16:23:12 <Trollinator> Haskell has completely changed the way I think about programming. I had only learned traditional imperative and OO languages before that, Pascal, C++, Java
16:23:24 <CarwynNelson> Whilst Haskell is a lovely language (i would imagine especially lovely for financial software) it's just simply not as portable as c and c++
16:24:01 <Trollinator> Well, it's not as portable as C and C++, but probably portable enough.
16:25:41 <CarwynNelson> Can you take something written in Haskell and use it in another language?
16:26:08 <CarwynNelson> you can write a language binding for a c library in basically every language out there :)
16:27:13 <Trollinator> https://wiki.haskell.org/Applications_and_libraries/Interfacing_other_languages
16:32:22 <Trollinator> But I'm not convinced that's a very important feature. If you want to write a library like e.g. gtk that you then want to use from many different languages, you probably want to use C for that. But GnuCash isn't a library
16:32:49 <gjanssens> libgnucash will be
16:33:42 <gjanssens> It's meant to become the core functionality made available on all platforms we intend to support, including android and ios
16:34:34 <gjanssens> The link you provided mainly explains how haskell programs can use libraries writting in other languages, but not the other way around.
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16:35:53 <Trollinator> Yeah, my point is that there's going to be a limited number of consumers of that library. The Linux version, versions for Android and iOS, Windows and OS X and not that many others
16:36:01 <gjanssens> It's probably possible because the SO link on the Android page suggests to find a Haskell compiler that targets C. So essentially a compiler can generate C code from Haskell
16:36:30 <gjanssens> True.
16:37:08 <gjanssens> Anyway as we don't have experienced Haskell devs in the team, there's little incentive to use that language.
16:37:19 <gjanssens> That doesn't say anything of the language
16:37:21 <Trollinator> Sure, I'm not seriously trying to convince anyone here
16:37:27 <gjanssens> Just of our experience :)
16:37:58 <gjanssens> I was curious anyway, so thanks for mentioning it :)
16:38:41 <Trollinator> Oh, and I should probably say thanks for writing the app. I've only really started using it today, but it seems useful
16:38:50 <gjanssens> Nice. And welcome !
16:39:00 <Trollinator> :-)
16:39:02 <CarwynNelson> gjanssens: are you aware of the open banking standards in the UK?
16:39:23 <gjanssens> CarwynNelson: I heard talk of it, but I don't know any details.
16:39:44 <gjanssens> I'm in Belgium
16:40:19 <CarwynNelson> I think it's the top 6 banks in the UK have a government mandate to provide an API for interacting with a consumers bank account
16:40:25 <gjanssens> We also have to file our taxes digitally but there's no requirement on a specific "authorized" accounting package
16:40:28 <CarwynNelson> the format of the API is specified in the open banking standards
16:40:54 <gjanssens> We just have to drop a specifically formatted xml file via a government website.
16:41:12 <CarwynNelson> https://www.openbanking.org.uk/
16:41:49 <gjanssens> Ooh. I misread. It thought you were bringing up the issue of digital tax that's going to be mandatory soon.
16:42:13 <gjanssens> Open banking standards are cool! But more something for the aqbanking project to pick up.
16:42:22 <gjanssens> If they add support we can use it in gnucash
16:42:32 <gjanssens> Got to leave now...
16:46:41 <Trollinator> good night
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16:57:34 <fell> CarwynNelson: you should share it over https://lists.aquamaniac.de/listinfo/aqbanking-user
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18:18:56 <Trollinator> It's funny how the GnuCash keeps explaining stuff in terms of checks. I've literally *never* issued a check in my life.
18:19:22 <Trollinator> Is that still a thing in the U. S.?
18:20:25 <fell> I used ECs worldwide before they got dropped.
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18:24:13 <Trollinator> Oops, I meant the GnuCash manual
18:24:50 <Trollinator> *sigh* it's 2018 and you still can't edit messages in IRC
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18:25:55 <fell> Join the documentation team to improve them. ;-)
18:28:08 <Trollinator> Why? There's nothing wrong with the docs, it explains everything fine
18:28:35 <Trollinator> just looks a bit quaint, that's all
18:33:52 <fell> There have been many discussions e.g. https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2018-September/042604.html
18:34:22 <Trollinator> When I retrieve bookings via online banking, is it possbile to automatically book them onto certain accounts based on, say, a regex?
18:35:22 <Trollinator> like, if it matches "sainsburys", book it onto the food account or something
18:35:37 <fell> There is a Baysian algorithm implemented, which can be enabled in prefs.
18:37:05 <Trollinator> fancy
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18:39:31 <Trollinator> The only place Bayes is mentioned in the manual seems to be the glossary though
18:40:55 <Trollinator> Oh well, I'll figure it out, thanks
18:41:00 <Trollinator> Good night
18:41:19 <fell> Because real online banking is only implemented in FinTS, a german standard, the whole online banking is not well documented.
18:42:24 <fell> Most countries have in the best case direct-OFX
18:43:53 <Trollinator> I'm using FinTS
18:44:09 <fell> I tghought from your IP
18:49:36 <Trollinator> So if I understand correctly GnuCash should simply learn from what I did before and automatically assign transactions to accounts based on that, correct?
18:50:08 <fell> After you enabled it, yes.
18:50:34 <fell> start with small chunks like a week or a month.
18:52:09 <fell> The different traffic light colors tell you, what the importer thinks.
18:53:28 <fell> red: action needed, yellow: may be, green: pretty sure.
18:54:24 <Trollinator> Yeah, I've done it for the past two months now and I don't have any transactions left to test it with, so I guess I'll try it in a week or se
18:54:26 <Trollinator> or so
18:54:52 <Trollinator> and it seems to be enabled by default, I found the checkbox and it was already checked.
18:57:00 <fell> Often end of month and end of year are most important.
18:58:14 <Trollinator> Well the largest transactions happen there, but in terms of sheer numbers there are way more transactions in between
19:01:10 <Trollinator> And the whole reason I'm doing this is I want to know more about how much I spent on the small things. It's easy to calculate how much I spend on rent or my phone, it's much harder to quantify for things like food or transport costs
19:02:10 <fell> Why is there still so much month at the end of the money? ;-)
19:02:43 <Trollinator> luckily that is not a problem I have :-)
19:15:08 <fell> Out for supper ...
19:15:31 <Trollinator> bye
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21:09:17 <chris> @tell gjanssens if there were a guile-based parallel to aqbanking I'm in!
21:09:17 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
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21:14:00 <fell> chris, why do you want to rebuild aqbanking in scheme?
21:14:35 <fell> Do you know, how many message types exist?
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21:17:37 <chris> no don't want to rebuild it, but wish to have similar hooks... aqbanking is C and incomprehensible to me
21:18:38 <chris> plus, too much german in its documentation
21:19:18 <fell> The original authors were sitting in Hamurg.
21:19:25 <fell> Hamburg
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21:20:32 <chris> i know -- not complaining here -- just a major struggle to use their docs
21:20:43 <fell> Isn't most of the OFX part in english?
21:21:31 <chris> i thought aqbanking != ofx
21:23:01 <fell> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/AqBanking
21:23:33 <chris> well i don't know anything about it; i tried to hack it and failed miserably
21:23:37 <fell> OFX Direct Connect is there
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21:24:21 <fell> What do you need?
21:24:40 <fell> File format, protocoll family, ..
21:27:54 <fell> or the URL of your bank
21:29:06 <chris> https://www.openbanking.org.uk/ from today's log is a good start
21:33:03 <fell> 'Open ID Foundation’s Financial Grade API (FAPI) and Client Initiated Backchannel Authentication (CIBA) profiles' sounds good
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21:44:36 <fell> chris, I think you should talk with Martin (see listinfo above - then I can follow).
21:51:10 <fell> Ah, Atlassian (Sidney) is behind openbanking. ;-)
21:54:47 <chris> well openbanking/directofx/aquamaniac/aqbanking/aqfinance... do you now understand why for an anglophone, the whole website is a complete wall of gibberish deutsche? :-o
21:54:59 <chris> (no offence towards germans intended)
21:55:59 <fell> OFX is an US industrial standard (Intuit, MS, ...)
21:56:11 <chris> hence, i would leave aqbanking alone, and try build something nice and new in guile, and hook it directly to gnucash
21:56:35 <fell> FinTS is an open german standard.
21:57:29 <fell> Message typs (MTxxx ) are SWIFT/ISO standards.
21:59:13 <fell> openbanking is the UK/atlassian standard.
21:59:51 <fell> Aqbanking is our current library to access several of them.
22:00:41 <fell> aquamaniac is Martins nickname
22:01:11 <fell> aqfinance is his reference implementation for aqbanking
22:02:32 <chris> mmkay these should be explained on the site!
22:03:15 <fell> I believe, most of them are explained in our glossary.
22:04:08 <chris> ok thx, i need to go work now
22:04:41 <fell> Have fun!
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23:04:55 <fell> chris, you should call https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aquamaniac.de%2Frdm%2F
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