2018-11-02 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:00:00 <fell> chris: where did you hide "Invoice #"? I want to replace " #" in the translation by "nr. "
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01:01:46 <fell> I believe "'#" is only in English used as number symbol. So it needs to be part of the translatable tring.
01:02:07 <fell> string
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04:40:27 <gjanssens> .
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10:24:00 <jfazny> Newbie here. Loyal Quicken user who has had enough (sure that's not unusual). Trying to import my sizable QIF. On QIF Import step, hit Start Import and while processing it stopped and displayed Failed. Tried second time same outcome. Suggestions?
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10:30:46 <finster> jfazny: no idea about your problem, but a bit of context information would help: what os are you on? what gnucash version do you use?
10:31:18 <finster> also, you might want to stay a few hours here before the knowledgeable people can answer :)
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11:00:49 <jfazny> Win10 Ver1803. Latest version of gnucash ver 3.3 bld 3.3+. QIF from Quicken Deluxe 2016 R18.4 Bld 25.1.18.4. Let me know what details would be helpful and I can provide. Perhaps gnucash has log files I can share?
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11:51:13 <jralls> gjanssens: Reviewing the UK Summer Time transition bug leads me to wonder yet again, should we change all plain dates to neutral time and reserve day-start and day-end to queries?
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14:19:44 <gjanssens> jralls: I thought we already were doing so ?
14:20:40 <jralls> OK. I haven't actually done anything to make it happen. Do you think it's OK for maint?
14:20:42 <gjanssens> jralls: unrelated, I suppose you missed my question from a couple of days back: https://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2018/10/31.html#T04:18:13
14:21:14 <gjanssens> I think it's ok for user visible dates at least
14:22:03 <gjanssens> I know some corners of gnucash depend on time information, like sorting same-day transactions and same-day entries on invoices
14:22:13 <gjanssens> I don't know if there are other such cases though
14:23:38 * gjanssens has to go prepare supper, BBL
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15:05:17 <gjanssens> Ok, back
15:05:36 <jralls> Yes, I'd missed that question. There's no system-wide default font size on MacOS, but I compared GnuCash's font sizes with TextEdit's. TextEdit displays fonts at 12, 14, and 18 points and a 12-point font in GnuCash is about halfway between the 14 and 18 point fonts of the same face (default seems to be Helvetica) in TextEdit. That's consistent with changing the scaling in Gtk and Pango from 72 to 96 ppi.
15:07:57 <gjanssens> Ok. Isn't that an indicator there's still something not matching up between gtk on macos and the native resolution ?
15:08:20 <gjanssens> I mean isn't the user's concern genuine then ?
15:08:52 <jralls> The users are justifiably annoyed, yes.
15:09:15 <gjanssens> My reasoning is the gtk toolkit should integrate in the platforms it's ported to, so default behaviour should be close to the native environment.
15:09:21 <gjanssens> Ok.
15:09:32 <gjanssens> Any idea where this then goes off track ?
15:09:55 <gjanssens> Not that I expect a solution right here and now, just trying to get a better grasp of the issue
15:12:01 <gjanssens> In particular you mention "points" rather than "pixels". These have a typographically fixed size which - when the resolution is known - could be rendered consistently on each screen.
15:12:48 <jralls> It went off track when I fixed a deprecation warning in gdk two years ago. The deprecated function was a no-op and I followed Apple's docs to use a different function that isn't. That blew up display of fonts on Retina displays because what Apple *doesn't* document is that they take care of font scaling for Retina, so the new function was in effect applying the scaling twice.
15:14:20 <gjanssens> Ok. You write "was"...
15:15:21 <jralls> Patience... But they don't scale icons, and you're supposed to use the scaling factor to select which icon do present to the user. Gdk doesn't actually do that, but it makes it look like it uses the same number to scale both so I went off to Pango to compensate for the doubling of scaling in Retina. That change worked OK for Gtk but caused trouble for Graphviz.
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15:18:56 <jralls> Behdad Esfabod, the God of Text Layout (seriously, he runs Pango, Harfbuzz, and friends and they're used really widely, not just in Gnome), did some research with his buddies at Apple and came back with the claim that in Apple's documentation "points" means CSS points at 96/inch instead of printer's points at 72/inch. I changed the Pango and Gtk code accordingly.
15:19:56 <jralls> I also dug into the Gtk code some more and found that the scaling factor is only passed to Pango so I removed Retina detection, as it's not necessary.
15:24:05 <jralls> So it seems that Bhedad misunderstood something and the scaling for the API Gtk and Pango uses really is in printer's points. The Apple documentation talks about Window, Backing Store, and Device coordinates; apparently each has its own scaling. Aside from font size I think this affects the mouse-pointer problems people keep reporting.
15:25:19 <gjanssens> Ok. Thanks for the info.
15:25:32 <jralls> Probably more detail than you wanted...
15:25:44 <gjanssens> No, very informative.
15:26:17 <gjanssens> Unfortunately not my area to dive in and go help fixing stuff...
15:27:06 <gjanssens> Should I have the time :(
15:27:12 <jralls> Or a new enough Mac.
15:27:27 <gjanssens> So is there a way forward ? Do you think the scaling should be reset to 72 ppi ?
15:28:07 <gjanssens> Or would the also regress other bugs that were fixed by setting it to 96ppi?
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15:28:23 <gjanssens> Oh, s/the/that/
15:31:42 <jralls> I'm not sure that there were any other bugs. But Gdk-quartz hasn't gotten much love in the last 5 years or so and so hasn't kept up with either Gdk or Apple API changes. I'm going to work on that a bit, but I need to study the Apple docs some more before I start.
15:33:06 <gjanssens> Ok, good enough as an answer.
15:33:45 <gjanssens> I was looking at your commit in pango. I was surprised it's 6 months old already...
15:33:50 <gjanssens> Time sure flies
15:33:51 <jralls> I don't know that there is a single correct scaling number, but for text 72 seems better than 96.
15:34:19 <gjanssens> There's indeed a FIXME in there suggesting it should be retrieved by some means instead of hard coding it.
15:34:46 <jralls> Yeah. The Gtk3 transition has sucked a solid year out of GnuCash development.
15:35:06 <gjanssens> There's also a double definition on line 101: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pango/commit/f661cdbf8cfbdb2ba7241d8dfa4a579c6dfe0a94#0610433fe1db31b741befcfcca1f4791d4ef99ef_101_101
15:35:45 <gjanssens> I don't know the pango code, so I can't tell whether that's intentional. It just struck me while scanning the commit.
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15:37:43 <jralls> Something didn't work right copying or pasting that URL, it errored out. I chopped it at # and got my commit f661cdb. What line are you looking at?
15:38:14 <gjanssens> 101
15:38:21 <gjanssens> It's still like that in current master btw
15:38:32 <timbo> With gnucash v. 3.3, the scroll bar in the register is different than it was in 2.x. I want to scroll up/down 1 page. Usually I can do that by clicking in the white space above/below the scroll bar. Is there a way to get the functionality in this scrollbar?
15:39:11 <gjanssens> timbo: I believe gtk's default scrollbar behavior has changed in gtk3
15:39:16 <jralls> pangocoretest-private.h:101. I see it.
15:39:45 <timbo> So I can try to google gtk3 scrollbar and find out how it works?
15:40:00 <jralls> timbo: Hold the alt key down when you click.
15:41:13 <jralls> timbo: Or see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/GTK3#Scrollbars to restore the Gtk2 behavior.
15:41:22 <gjanssens> oh, right. I should have mentioned the file, not only the line number. Sorry
15:41:37 <timbo> Thanks. I'll take a look.
15:43:47 <gjanssens> jralls: unless there's something else you wanted to discuss, I'll continue our expo preparations now...
15:44:34 <jralls> Nope. Back to work! ;-)
15:44:40 <gjanssens> Good :)
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15:54:50 <rlosey> I downloaded GnuCash 3.3 recently, and am experiencing many crashes on MacOS. I didn’t see anything in the bug list. Anyone else had this problem? (The Windows version appears to be stable)
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15:55:28 <rlosey> Running MacOS 10.13.6 with plenty of memory
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16:45:36 <gjanssens> Looks like RHEL has deprecated libdbi. That will be one more package that will have to be added to EPEL then if someone still cares to have a gnucash package on that platform in the future...
16:45:37 <gjanssens> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html-single/7.6_release_notes/#chap-Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux-7.6_Release_Notes-Deprecated_Functionality
16:51:27 <jralls> gjanssens: 2 or 4 more packages depending on how they handle libdbi-drivers.
16:51:48 <gjanssens> True
16:52:12 <gjanssens> Strange times we live in after all...
16:52:26 <gjanssens> Microsoft embracing open source, RH bought by IBM...
16:52:43 <gjanssens> I'm having a hard time giving all of that a place ATM
16:52:49 <jralls> rlosey: Did you compare your crash reports to the ones attached to https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796879?
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16:53:39 <rlosey> Am examining now
16:53:41 <rlosey> ...
16:54:06 <jralls> gjanssens: Did you see RMS's diatribe about how "open-source" is amoral because it subverts Software Freedom?
16:55:19 <gjanssens> Recently ? No
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16:55:47 <gjanssens> I know he didn't like the term open source though.
16:56:11 <jralls> https://newleftreview.org/II/113/richard-stallman-talking-to-the-mailman, via slashdot.
16:56:20 <fell> jfazny: I am not often using the QIF importer, but you should import in small shunks until baysian learned your associations.
16:57:32 <fell> In sall chunks it is also easier to find "wrong characters", which are not expected depending on your locale settings.
16:59:10 <rlosey> jralls: Yes, it does appear to be in the same place… (at least, in libgtk)
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17:01:26 <jfazny> Fell Thanks. Will try one account at a time...
17:04:41 <rlosey> jrall: I’ve downloaded the version provided in the link, and we’ll see if that makes it better.
17:06:23 <fell> fazny: I would use all accounts, but month by month for the first year.
17:07:17 <rlosey> Sorry; used wrong userid — should be jralls (I am trying the file I downloaded via the link in the bug report)
17:09:13 <jralls> rlosey: OK.
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17:29:55 <chris> fell: quick msg. as you can see from github "~a #~a" is already translatable, and was not of my doing
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17:31:43 <fell> thx, chris! Then I have to search other places.
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17:45:00 <rlosey> jralls: So far, so good. Hasn’t crashed yet
17:45:12 <jralls> Good.
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18:12:38 <fell> jralls, what is the meaning of CMake Warning: Manually-specified variables were not used by the project: CMAKE_RULE_MESSAGES, CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE?
18:19:43 <fell> chris, I added a comment because no translator would know, how to translate "~a #~a" without a clue.
18:20:19 <chris> ok. good idea. the author of easy-invoice.scm has a lot to answer for:)
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18:26:22 <jralls> fell: I think that it means you specified those variables on the command line (e.g. "-DCMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE=ON") and neither cmake nor CMakeLists.txt uses them.
18:27:30 <fell> Not I, but my IDE. Thanks!
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