2018-10-14 GnuCash IRC logs

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02:51:19 <fell> Guten Morgen, Mechtilde!
02:51:46 <fell> Gibt es schon Ergebnisse zu OmegaT?
02:52:00 <Mechtilde> von mir noch nicht
02:52:49 <fell> Geert bastelt schon fleißig an ITS tools.
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04:07:42 <gjanssens> .
04:07:42 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 8 hours and 27 minutes ago: <fell> My current knowledge: https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Documentation_Components
04:07:43 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 6 hours and 30 minutes ago: <fell> In yelp &app; is no longer expanded. I assume docbook/gnc-docbookx.dtd needs to get installed.
04:08:29 <gjanssens> good point about the DTD in yelp fell
04:09:18 <fell> Yeah, i did the one or other test. ;-)
04:11:31 <fell> And if I read the docs right, we should not patch the content of xsl/. Instead a .css should be used.
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05:15:37 <fell> There are several issues in make pdf:
05:17:02 <fell> No docs in ja: make[2]: execvp: ../../../fonts/ume-tmo3.ttf: Keine Berechtigung
05:18:14 <fell> in guide/C: SCHWERWIEGEND: Image not found. URI: figures/basics_AccountRelationships.svg. (No context info available)
05:19:11 <fell> SCHWERWIEGEND: Image not found. URI: figures/txns_registersplit4.png. (See position 276:867) and more png
05:25:26 <fell> Hm, I do not see them on https://code.gnucash.org/docs/
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05:30:21 <gjanssens> How would you translate "Keine Berechtigung" ?
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05:30:45 <gjanssens> In my build I see: INFO: Reading /home/janssege/Development/gnucash/docs-itstool/fonts/ume-tmo3.ttf...
05:30:48 <gjanssens> So it does find the font
05:31:09 <gjanssens> These issues are unrelated to the XInput changes I did
05:31:59 <gjanssens> Do you see the same warnings when generating pdfs before my commits ?
05:37:15 <fell> "No (access) rights"
05:42:38 <fell> before the svg was processed.
05:44:30 <fell> missing pngs I get already before
05:45:52 <fell> and the fonts error was also there before.
05:46:17 <fell> So we lost now "only" svgs
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06:20:59 <henk> hi, I currently have the "normal" structure with assets, income, expenses, etc. at the top level. below that I have accounts for every member of the household as well as for the household. I am considering changing that order to have a complete and separate hierarchy for every member of the household (e.g. not "Assets -> henk" but "henk -> Assets"). That seems impossible because I have to
06:21:01 <henk> give an account type for the top level account "henk" and if I choose "expenses", it cannot have a sub-account of type "assets". is there any way to achieve my goal? apart from putting it in completely separate files?
06:30:24 <gjanssens> fell: I can't reproduce the missing figures/basics_AccountRelationships.svg either. It's there in the pdf on my system with current maint
06:31:36 <gjanssens> And it's also included in https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/basics-accounting1.html#basics-accountingequation2
06:32:26 <fell> gjanssens: i am currently checking the other output formats. After that I will redo the pdf.
06:32:46 <gjanssens> Ok
06:34:46 <gjanssens> henk: I don't think there's a way around that.
06:34:50 <gjanssens> Sorry
06:34:56 <henk> gjanssens: ok, thanks (:
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06:44:31 <fell> The missing pngs are in it. I assume they are an artefact of the po based translation.
06:45:06 <fell> (my console buffer was too short before)
06:58:19 <gjanssens> Ok
06:59:00 <gjanssens> The DTD issue stands though. I'll have to think a bit how to fix this.
06:59:52 <fell> Is it usual to install DTDs with docs?
07:00:33 <fell> If not we should move the entities into include files.
07:01:22 <fell> Special as for some config vars could be used
07:05:15 <gjanssens> The trouble with the DTD is where to store it such that the final xml parser can find it
07:05:35 <gjanssens> This goes equally for the include files
07:06:45 <gjanssens> We can solve this by making the DTD available online
07:07:00 <gjanssens> Which is how DTD's are typically distributed
07:07:26 <gjanssens> But there's a whole mechanism set up to avoid fetching the DTD's online and use local copies instead
07:07:33 <gjanssens> Something with the catalog in /etc/xml
07:08:46 <gjanssens> But I don't know that much about xml processing to know how to handle this for gnucash
07:09:32 <fell> I didn't it before, too
07:09:39 <gjanssens> There are ways around this
07:10:03 <gjanssens> Like we can store the DTD together with the xml files at install time
07:10:37 <gjanssens> But that would mean the DTD should also be next to the xml files in the source tree, or we have to emulate this set up with softlinks
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07:10:51 <gjanssens> The latter is more difficult on Windows, where it would have to be copies.
07:11:27 <gjanssens> That also means suddenly a build step becomes required before the xml files can be read by tools such as yelp
07:11:38 <gjanssens> I had hoped to avoid that
07:12:21 <gjanssens> Or better I am hoping to avoid that. I'm still pondering the proper solution here.
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09:18:36 <gjanssens> fell: out of curiosity, if you install gnucash-docs on your system, does it install the omf files ?
09:18:53 <gjanssens> It doesn't on Fedora so it seems this is no longer required
09:20:51 <gjanssens> The rpm spec for gnucash-docs on Fedora has dropped building omf files for docs release 2.4.2 in 2012
09:21:10 <gjanssens> So I wonder if it's really used still
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09:29:00 <Mechtilde> gjanssens, on Debian there are no *.omf too
09:34:55 <fell> from the rarian manual: In addition to its new (and better) meta-data format, Rarian also provides backwards compatibility for scrollkeeper
09:35:16 <fell> new .dektop old: .omf
09:35:58 <fell> .desktop
09:36:06 <gjanssens> fell: sure, but ISTR we were generating omf files solely for yelp
09:36:39 <gjanssens> And from browsing the code yelp seems to have dropped rarian dependencies from its sources shortly after yelp version 2.23
09:36:41 <fell> and rarian is yelps catalog manager AFAIK
09:36:58 <gjanssens> Apparently not any more
09:37:44 <fell> And what are they using instead?
09:39:28 <fell> We could also generate html +.desktop and support khelpcenter.
09:41:42 <warlord> .
09:41:46 <gjanssens> It seems yelp is not using any catalog at all any more
09:42:02 <gjanssens> You have to pass it a valid document as parameter
09:46:24 <fell> Another step back ...
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09:48:55 <fell> Software is becoming more and more stupid, like the average user? ;-)
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09:57:08 <gjanssens> Otherwise it will default to help:gnome-help
09:59:02 <fell> I just see, we install to /usr/share/gnome/help/C, others to /usr/share/help/C
09:59:44 <fell> and it seems only that in /usr/share/help/C appear in the index
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10:12:21 <gjanssens> fell: how do you get an index in yelp ?
10:13:13 <fell> LANG=C yelp
10:13:28 <gjanssens> That opens gnome-help for me
10:13:50 <fell> Then it seems to show , what is in usr/share/help/C
10:14:29 <gjanssens> https://i.imgur.com/URS6Lju.png
10:14:50 <fell> To get other documents Menu->All Help
10:14:54 <gjanssens> No, help:gnome-help is the built-in default according to the code
10:15:20 <gjanssens> Ah, Menu->All Help does give an index
10:15:23 <gjanssens> Thanks
10:17:06 <gjanssens> Interestingly this is not working when starting "yelp" without setting LANG=C
10:18:21 <fell> Because there are not many nl_BE docs ;-)
10:19:19 <gjanssens> On my system LANG is set to en_US
10:19:25 <gjanssens> (.utf8
10:19:26 <gjanssens> )
10:22:22 <gjanssens> Setting LANG=nl_BE actually does work
10:22:26 <fell> en_US has the same number of entries like nl_BE (o)
10:24:17 <fell> because there is a directory en_US, there is no fallback, it seems.
10:25:04 <gjanssens> Using nl_BE will equally show an index of all apps that are available in C, but for those that have translations it will show the translation
10:25:06 <gjanssens> Neat actually
10:25:31 <gjanssens> And the en_US case is probably a bug in locale resolutions (in yelp ?)
10:25:35 <gjanssens> I don't really care
10:26:09 <gjanssens> But it does look like yelp now defaults to help:<xyz>
10:26:46 <gjanssens> It also has a 'help-list:' protocol which in fact is what shows the index
10:27:32 <gjanssens> Even more amazingly running "yelp help-list:" on my system does show the index
10:27:57 <gjanssens> While starting yelp and then "All help" does not.
10:28:09 <gjanssens> Both times yelp is started from the very same shell
10:28:14 <gjanssens> Got a bug there :)
10:30:54 <gjanssens> In fact yelp help-list: will list our two documents in the list
10:32:50 <fell> '/usr/local/share/gnome/help/gnucash-help/de/Help_fdl-appendix.xml:3: I/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/local/share/gnome/help/docbook/gnc-docbookx.dtd"'
10:33:08 <gjanssens> And LANG=C yelp followed by All Help will list them as well, albeit in a different location in that list
10:33:27 <gjanssens> Yeah, that's the issue I have to fix
10:33:36 <gjanssens> The DTD isn't installed
10:34:02 <gjanssens> Which command generated that error by the way ?
10:34:03 <fell> Here you see, where it is expected.
10:34:27 <gjanssens> I knew were, because I'm using a relative path to the source xml files currently
10:34:29 <gjanssens> :)
10:34:35 <fell> it was the last ine in the console output
10:34:43 <gjanssens> From yelp ?
10:35:04 <fell> yes, the console from which I started yelp
10:35:08 <gjanssens> Ok
10:37:09 <fell> but currently there is no docbook directory and should probably not be.
10:37:47 <gjanssens> Exactly
10:38:15 <gjanssens> I wrote it with the intention of being in our source files only (non-installed)
10:38:39 <gjanssens> I didn't consider what would/should happen when the sources got installed
10:39:01 <gjanssens> Well, I thought about it a some point, but forgot when starting the actual implementation
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11:01:31 <gjanssens> fell: as you have installed docs in /usr/local, does yelp find them there via ghelp:gnucash-guide ?
11:02:00 <gjanssens> Or will it only find docs installed in /usr
11:03:03 <gjanssens> Hmm according to the the sources it should find it in all of XDG_DATA_DIRS
11:03:28 <gjanssens> At least that what is suggests
11:03:45 <fell> AFAIK /usr/ local has priority over /...
11:07:14 <fell> The only Issue, which I have is the wrong .../data/accounts
11:09:42 <fell> instead of /usr/local/share/gnucash/accounts/de_DE I get always /usr/share/gnucash/accounts/de_DE
11:12:55 <fell> gjanssens: Yes it finds my last night modified version in /usr/local ...
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11:49:20 <gjanssens> Ok, thanks
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12:53:00 <jralls> gjanssens: Don't worry about xml catalogs on platforms that don't use Yelp, meaning in particular Win32 and MacOS. Help on those platforms is HTML.
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13:06:21 <jralls> gjanssens: KHelpCenter can read DocBook XML directly too, so I suppose we should adjust our default help code to be able to launch one or the other.
13:07:25 <jralls> Though KHelpCenter can also display HTML...
13:10:05 <jralls> And so can Yelp.
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13:24:16 <fell> Docbook needs less diskspace and less make time.
13:29:08 <jralls> fell: True for build time as long as we keep the source in DocBook. Disk space maybe, but only marginally. The images dominate the disk space requirement.
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13:38:25 <fell> I wonder, if gnc_resolve_file_path() needs an reordering of its documented search path.
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13:49:42 <jralls> I'd say rather that it should be removed. We should be looking for specific files in specific places and there aren't any files that would be in more than one of the places gnc_resolve_file_path looks.
13:52:33 <fell> old and new version while upgrading
13:56:42 <gjanssens> What that you probably mean when you have a distro packaged version of gnucash in /usr and a self-built one in /usr/local
13:57:20 <gjanssens> This is not a very well supported scenario.
13:57:31 <fell> That is another problem
13:57:53 <gjanssens> And it looks lik gnc_resolve_file_path was written in an era where XDG_ variables weren't defined yet.
13:58:27 <fell> I can not test chf's templates, because the program opens the distros data dir.
13:58:34 <gjanssens> That code only searches for one data dir instead of in each of the paths specified in XDG_DATA_DIRS
13:59:13 <gjanssens> That's what I mean with that /usr/local and /usr don't go very well together
13:59:32 <fell> gnc_filepath_locate_data_file() calls gnc_filepath_locate_file (gnc_path_get_pkgdatadir()
13:59:57 <fell> instead of $PREFIX/...
14:04:09 <gjanssens> gnc_resolve_file_path does so as well
14:04:17 <gjanssens> It never uses PREFIX hardcoded
14:05:44 <gjanssens> It is however slightly puzzling why the code picks up files in /usr/share/gnucash rather than /usr/local/share/gnucash
14:06:13 <gjanssens> Unless loading of account templates doesn't call gnc_resolve_file_path
14:06:28 <jralls> It would look in /usr/share first and if it finds it, it's done.
14:06:47 <fell> gnc_path_get_accountsdir ()
14:06:53 <gjanssens> What would it do so of PREFIX is /usr/local ?
14:07:08 <fell> is in assistant called
14:08:52 <gjanssens> Yes, I thought that was the function. Which ties into our binreloc code
14:09:07 <gjanssens> And that should return a prefix relative to where the binary is installed
14:09:27 <gjanssens> or did we already change it to be relative to a library ?
14:09:33 <gjanssens> The concept is the same though
14:10:00 <gjanssens> If gnucash is installed in /usr/local all paths returned from the gnc-path.c code should start with /usr/local
14:10:11 <jralls> It's still relative to the executable.
14:10:39 <gjanssens> fell: unless you are running the wrong executable
14:11:36 <fell> which gnucash
14:11:37 <fell> /usr/local/bin/gnucash
14:14:49 <fell> Oops, now it is there.
14:15:20 <fell> Did I forget make install?
14:16:22 <gjanssens> And "type gnucash" ?
14:16:31 <gjanssens> Should be the same though...
14:16:42 <gjanssens> Anyway one more mystery solved
14:20:08 <jralls> I still don't like gnc_resolve_file_path. It's utterly illogical.
14:23:31 <fell> At least it is missing XDG dirs
14:24:42 <jralls> Especially since the principal use seems to be gnc_uri_get_components, which is used by the backends and for figuring out what to name the state file in GNC_DATA_HOME/books.
14:27:56 <gjanssens> jralls: I agree it's old cruft. Our complete file handling system is in for some redesign :(
14:28:23 <gjanssens> It has become a patchwork of fixes added without seeing the whole picture
14:28:29 <gjanssens> I'm guilty of the myself...
14:28:38 <jralls> Yeah. Also consolidation. It's a major PITA to have it splattered across three directories.
14:28:39 <gjanssens> At least my younger self is, heh
14:28:52 <gjanssens> +1
14:29:38 <jralls> gjanssens: Remember you promised chris you'd look at his speedup PRs this weekend.
14:30:38 <gjanssens> I did. Though I'm currently trying to fix the docs build I broke :(
14:30:50 <gjanssens> I should be almost done
14:30:55 <gjanssens> with that part
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14:35:26 <jralls> OK. I've been trying to figure out https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796867.
14:41:08 <fell> I am off for today. zzzzzzzzz
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14:54:21 <gjanssens> Bye fell
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17:40:25 <jvapr27> hi
17:40:29 <jvapr27> Anyone there?
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