2018-10-12 GnuCash IRC logs

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03:01:39 <gjanssens> .
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05:11:18 <chris> 12mins to 46seconds = 15x improvement
05:12:00 <chris> mostly driven by condensing to only 1 qof-query, and allow scheme to flex srfi-1
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11:02:16 <Airradda> Any know why gnucash takes 3-5 minutes to save, I assume that's not normal? (Running portable on OneDrive)
11:02:50 <warlord> Airradda: could be Portable. Could be OneDrive.
11:02:57 <warlord> Try using real GnuCash on a local disk and compare?
11:03:47 <Airradda> I have it downloaded and have "always keep on this device" enabled, but I'll give it a shot
11:08:22 <KevinDB> I can restrain myself from asking this and showing my ignorance no longer..... I see several users here appear and type a single '.' character. Why?
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11:11:03 <Airradda> warlord Installed it on the drive, same issue
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11:17:39 <gjanssens> KevinDB: our gncbot allows you to leave messages for users while they are not on irc (using @tell nick something)
11:18:07 <KevinDB> ah and the '.' tells the bot to tell you what they said
11:18:08 <gjanssens> The messages would be replayed the first time this user says something on the channel
11:18:22 <gjanssens> The . is just a very short way of saying something
11:18:30 <gjanssens> It could be anything though
11:18:50 <KevinDB> gotcha. Learn summit every day.
11:18:56 <gjanssens> :)
11:19:23 <KevinDB> @tell gjanssens You're a very helpful person :-)
11:19:23 <gncbot> KevinDB: The operation succeeded.
11:19:27 <gjanssens> ;
11:19:27 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent just now: <KevinDB> You're a very helpful person :-)
11:19:38 <gjanssens> See: ; works as well :D
11:19:42 <KevinDB> lol
11:20:26 <sixwheeledbeast> It's certainly not normal to take minutes to save
11:22:04 <sixwheeledbeast> try a fresh book to compare
11:22:07 <gjanssens> Airradda: it appears screen resolution is interfering with save performance
11:22:22 <gjanssens> Are you on a HiDPI monitor ?
11:22:32 <Airradda> Oh
11:22:35 <Airradda> Oof
11:22:40 <Airradda> Not good
11:22:53 <gjanssens> Not good at all, but so far unresolved :(
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11:23:11 <Airradda> On a surface book, so 3000x2000 12" display
11:23:41 <gjanssens> You can improve performance a bit by making the gnucash window as small as you can before hitting save.
11:23:43 <Airradda> Desktop is 2560x1440, so...
11:23:56 <gjanssens> Not a great workaround, but it's the best we have for now
11:24:05 <Airradda> Weird bug
11:24:15 <Airradda> Never heard of something like that before
11:24:36 <sixwheeledbeast> I agree how odd
11:24:43 <gjanssens> Well, it's probably due to needless screen redraws being triggered by somethig
11:25:02 <gjanssens> We just haven't pinpointed that "something" yet so far
11:25:39 <gjanssens> And I can't reproduce on my linux system so it appears Windows only (though I'm not sure of that)
11:28:05 <warlord> I thought there was a linux user who reported it as well, but I may be misremembering.
11:28:14 <warlord> It's clearly a redraw issue, but....
11:28:21 <warlord> (well, maybe not "clearly")
11:29:49 <gjanssens> At least "likely"
11:30:33 * warlord nods
11:30:54 <gjanssens> For completeness, my system is fairly performant and I don't have a HiDPI screen. So I didn't see anything while profiling.
11:30:55 <Airradda> Seems to be better, so I would guess so
11:31:21 <gjanssens> Others have chosen to scale down their monitors, which is another ugly workaround
11:31:57 <gjanssens> Well scale down their screen resolution and have the monitor scale it up internally
11:32:15 <gjanssens> Gives slightly more blurry windows though
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11:35:15 <gjanssens> jralls: I did an experiment today and can confirm yelp handles xincludes just fine
11:35:42 <gjanssens> I'm now in the process of converting our docs to use xinclude
11:37:13 <warlord> yay
11:37:51 <Airradda> Found a better work around, for me at least
11:39:48 <warlord> Airradda: which is...??
11:40:03 <Airradda> Use compatibility settings for GnuCash and let the system handle the scaling
11:40:41 <Airradda> Reduces the save time, for me, down to about 5-10 seconds
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11:42:19 <gjanssens> Airradda: ah, yes that is even better. ISTR someone mentioned that as well, but forgot
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11:44:58 <warlord> Maybe put it in the FAQ?
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13:37:18 <gjanssens> Yay, docs are now using XInput, a more recent DocBook DTD and xsl
13:37:27 <gjanssens> Now the real work can start...
13:37:46 <gjanssens> (itstool experiments)
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13:47:15 <gjanssens> warlord: my commit mail is held for moderation because it's too big. Can you take a look at this ?
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14:19:01 <warlord> gjanssens: do you want me to have it sent out or just drop it?
14:20:24 <gjanssens> Good question.
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14:20:49 <gjanssens> Let's just drop it.
14:21:04 <gjanssens> I think those that are interested can look up the changes in git
14:22:21 <warlord> okay, then I'll do that at some point. :)
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14:26:39 <gjanssens> Ok
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15:01:13 <fell> gjanssens: did you check if all kinds of links are still working?
15:01:40 <gjanssens> fell: yes
15:01:51 <gjanssens> As far as I could tell they still are
15:02:08 <gjanssens> But please do check for yourself, I haven't tested every single link
15:06:03 <gjanssens> For those interested: my itstool work so far is here https://github.com/gjanssens/gnucash-docs/tree/itstool
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15:06:42 <gjanssens> There is only one extra in there: make now has a target "pot" which will generate a pot file based on the English documents
15:07:04 <gjanssens> The hardest part will be to map the translations to these English messages
15:07:21 <gjanssens> There is fairly little data to go by.
15:07:31 <gjanssens> Other than the document structure that is
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15:08:01 <gjanssens> And that structure is not rigorously maintained during translations
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15:09:42 <gjanssens> So my idea so far is to start there: exactly align the document structures between original and translated document and then have a script copy the strings from both into a pot file.
15:10:04 <gjanssens> This will be quite a bit of work, so I'm open to better suggestions.
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15:11:05 <gjanssens> However before doing that I intend to set up a full workflow experiment but with a small sample book (for example only the introduction with one more chapter to test links)
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15:11:27 <gjanssens> Hopefully later this weekend.
15:13:40 <fell> Which chunks is itstools using?
15:14:06 <fell> para, sentence ...?
15:15:06 <fell> Is it adjustable like in omegaT?
15:15:20 <jralls> Mechtilde thought that anything smaller that sections would be a problem.
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15:31:29 <fell> I wonder, if we can drop the rest of xslt/. From README: contains the XSLT stylesheets for DocBook 4.1.2 XML ->HTML
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15:39:47 <gjanssens> jralls: I'm not sure yet if that would be an issue
15:39:53 <gjanssens> fell: it is configurable
15:40:02 <gjanssens> by default it chunks on para
15:41:01 <jralls> Mechtilde was concerned that paragraphs, especially short ones, wouldn't have enough context to provide the correct translation.
15:41:26 <gjanssens> Perhaps
15:41:36 <gjanssens> I'm called for supper
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15:50:26 <fell> To answer my own question: xmldocs.make calls xslt with xsl/general-customization.xsl in convert-html:
15:54:10 <fell> So the files are (old Gnome) customizations for html generations.
15:55:36 <fell> That would also explain some differences in the appearance of different output formats.
16:02:44 <jralls> I suppose that's for the next-page/previous-page arrows and the like?
16:24:30 <fell> It has everything Gnome tried to improve against DB 4.1.2
16:27:25 <fell> e.g. the l10n.xml, which became replaced by common/ll.xml (per language) in DB lter
16:28:05 <fell> later
16:34:16 <fell> common/de.xml has over 600 translations, i10n.xml only 10 per language.
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16:41:02 <gjanssens> The xsl directory could probaly use some more attention, but that can be done independently.
16:41:41 <gjanssens> Looking in the git history it appears I did some tweaks in there as well. But I would have to study it carefully again to know what exactly I did.
16:42:02 <gjanssens> Other than updating the xsl to 1.75.2 at some point and fixing incompatibilities
16:43:25 <fell> Our l10n.xml has 150 lines and a recent version /usr/share/xml/gnome/xslt/gettext/l10n.xml has ~8k lines
16:45:14 <gjanssens> I have no idea what l10n.xml is used for...
16:45:52 <fell> Translation of db elements like title, author, ...
16:45:53 <gjanssens> And for me cleaning that directory up is lower priority.
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16:46:18 <gjanssens> It's not blocking our documentation writers or translators
16:46:27 <gjanssens> Our current workflow is
16:46:54 <gjanssens> Of course you're free to investigate and improve if that is what you like to do
16:48:54 <fell> I remember, I asked Pedro to update our l10n, but the recent version has pt.
16:49:37 <fell> So we ask them for superflous work
16:54:41 <fell> And for us, it is confusing: you just updated xsl/1.79.2/general-customization, but not xsl/general-customization, which is used for html generation.
16:55:11 <gjanssens> I did update it to use the new xsl stylesheet
16:56:08 <gjanssens> And I don't want to change anything in the imported stylesheet, only extend it in separate files
16:56:34 <gjanssens> Otherwise we'd have a hard time figuring out what customizations we did when we have to update again in the future.
16:57:15 <gjanssens> Again, feel free to work in this area. I think it's an interesting corner of our documentation process, but I don't have enough time.
16:58:07 <gjanssens> For one I have contemplated more than once to customize one of the xsl stylesheets to output docs in a format that better suits our website environment.
16:59:23 <gjanssens> That is, it should output php code that, when dropped in the right directory on the webserver gives us html pages with the website decorations (top level and side bar menus) without the current frame hack
17:00:14 <gjanssens> So you'd get direct links to point people at
17:00:30 <gjanssens> But for me there are other priorities
17:01:01 <gjanssens> As for l10n.xml, what would happen if you copied the one from gnome/gettext into our xsl directory as well ?
17:01:39 <gjanssens> Anyway, I'm signing off here.
17:01:44 <gjanssens> See you later!
17:01:55 <fell> Have fuun!
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