2018-09-27 GnuCash IRC logs
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03:18:31 <gjanssens> .
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12:54:46 <jralls> fell, gjanssens: We need to sort out https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-docs/pull/115. gjanssens merged the commits so if we do nothing the changes will be in this weekend's release and the English docs will be substantially out of sync with the rest.
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13:42:49 <gjanssens> jralls: is it a problem the docs for different languages are out of sync ?
13:44:17 <jralls> fell seems to think so. I think that we need to be more relaxed about it because only the German docs are actively maintained. The Italian and Japanese docs are stuck at GC2.4.
13:44:25 <gjanssens> Ok I just read fell's objections
13:45:20 <gjanssens> The thing is I don't believe we will be able to make translations maintainables at all in the documentation process as it currently stands
13:45:35 <gjanssens> (Sorry to say that so bluntly Mechtilde)
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13:46:58 <gjanssens> I believe the closest we can come to sustainable translation is follow the approach tried for the Italian language: gettextize it
13:47:40 <Mechtilde> gjanssens, it isn't only a translation which can be handled by translation tools like po files or similar
13:48:02 <gjanssens> Mechtilde: what do you mean ?
13:48:30 <Mechtilde> you also have to adapt the documentation to the local law
13:48:45 <jralls> Yeah, that's the fundamental issue: Is the German documentation really a translation or is it a separate work?
13:48:50 <Mechtilde> law means all regularies
13:49:07 <jralls> I think you mean "regulations".
13:49:20 <gjanssens> But indeed that's a good point
13:49:23 <Mechtilde> jralls, I tried an translation so far it is possible
13:49:45 <Mechtilde> yes I mean regulations
13:50:17 <Mechtilde> i also tried to adapt it to German accounting
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13:51:04 <gjanssens> Which means you stopped translating directly and added different or new content
13:51:45 <gjanssens> Which makes it impossible to keep English and German versions in sync by means of tools
13:51:51 <Mechtilde> I try to understand what the meaning was and described it
13:52:05 <Mechtilde> gjanssens, yes
13:53:02 <gjanssens> Ok, but that also means there is no point in keep on trying to
13:53:06 <jralls> US-GAAP vs. IAS is another issue. We could really use English IAS documentation as well. I hope David Cousins will steer it in that direction.
13:53:27 * gjanssens looks up IAS...
13:53:50 <gjanssens> International Accounting Standards
13:53:55 <Mechtilde> gjanssens, one problem is to add new description of functions
13:53:59 <jralls> International Accounting Standard. It's what *everyone* except the US uses, and what you're familiar with but I'm not.
13:54:09 <Mechtilde> it will be difficult to find out it
13:54:28 <gjanssens> I do understand that, but I don't see how we can have both
13:54:37 <jralls> And more to the point, what David T. and Adrien M. aren't.
13:55:00 <gjanssens> Unless we split up the documentation in a generic part and a language/country/regulation specific part
13:55:10 <gjanssens> And only the generic part is shared.
13:55:49 <Mechtilde> I don't want to decide which part is generic and which part is specific
13:56:02 <gjanssens> So what do you propose ?
13:56:53 <Mechtilde> At this point I haven't enough time to do musch more translations at the document
13:57:15 <jralls> Mechtilde, apart from adding the Active/Passive stuff how much is really different?
13:57:31 <jralls> I suppose VAT vs. sales tax...
13:57:41 <Mechtilde> HBCI
13:59:04 * gjanssens has to leave for supper...
13:59:26 <Mechtilde> and at several points you can't translate a paragraph without the context e.g expense which had two meanins in German
13:59:33 <jralls> Which is German-only, right? So that could be a separate chapter. Canada, France, and the US use OFX. I don't know what the rest of the world uses, if anything.
13:59:34 <Mechtilde> which are very different
14:00:27 <gjanssens> Fwiw, Belgium, small as it is has even invented it's own format: coda
14:00:55 <gjanssens> But banks slowly start to understand it's better to support more common formats, so I do see OFX on some banks
14:01:12 <jralls> Probably French ones. ;-)
14:01:41 <gjanssens> Quite possibly :D
14:01:56 <jralls> Go have your supper, we'll be here when you're done.
14:02:34 <jralls> Mechtilde, if we were to break up the docs into translatable hunks, how big would the hunks need to be? Sections?
14:03:06 <Mechtilde> as long as aqbanking provide the interface to be able to use HBCI with free software
14:04:18 <jralls> So we need to be nice to Martin. ;-)
14:05:45 <Mechtilde> jralls, Sections seem to be good if there aren't to many changes between sections
14:06:08 <jralls> I don't understand "changes between sections".
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14:06:26 <Mechtilde> move content from one setion to another
14:06:40 <Mechtilde> sorry for my bad English
14:07:01 <Mechtilde> s/setion/section
14:07:37 <jralls> You've nothing to apologize for. Your English is vastly better than my German.
14:09:15 <jralls> Anyway, of course. The point about translatable hunks is that we'd try to minimize changes inside of them to avoid making work for translators.
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14:09:42 <Mechtilde> Is it possible to try to split the documentation in section ?
14:10:00 <Mechtilde> to maintain them more translatable
14:10:29 <jralls> It's already split up into sections. Docbook creates a lot of structure.
14:10:49 <Mechtilde> also po files
14:11:41 <Mechtilde> so I can look at it if this can be a way for the futures
14:12:50 <jralls> Please do. I think we need to rely on you and fell to decide what's practical, gjanssens and I lack the experience.
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14:13:56 <gjanssens> Exactly (my other half wasn't ready yet, so I'll still be here for a while)
14:13:57 <Mechtilde> I haven't the experience to extract pot and po files from docbook
14:14:41 <Mechtilde> to evaluate de diffenret
14:14:49 <Mechtilde> difference
14:15:02 <gjanssens> Mechtilde: the po and pot file method at this point extracts strings from xml at a lower level so the default will probably not help much
14:15:54 <gjanssens> We will need to configure it so to extract at the section level to be more useful to you.
14:16:03 <gjanssens> I also don't know if that's possible or not
14:16:43 <Mechtilde> so we need someone who give us an example how it can be
14:16:58 <jralls> I'll go study gettext-izing Docbook.
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14:17:26 <jralls> Mechtilde, do you use poedit or something similar?
14:17:52 <jralls> I mean when you're translating GnuCash program strings, not for the docs.
14:18:24 <Mechtilde> for the gui translation I use geany, an editor with sytax highlighting and a little bit more
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14:19:12 <jralls> I know about geany, they have a user who tries to port it to MacOS with gtk-osx.
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14:19:48 <Mechtilde> I use it at OSX too
14:20:38 <Mechtilde> but most of my translation I did at my Debian maschine
14:21:49 <gjanssens> Meanwhile what should I do with David's work ? Revert the commits ?
14:23:22 <Mechtilde> can it be in an unstable section
14:23:43 <Mechtilde> so it doesn't overwrite the stable documentation?
14:24:43 <jralls> It certainly can. So revert from maint and merge to master.
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14:25:33 <jralls> Or I could tag the commit just before the merge for the 3.3 release and we can figure out how to deal with the translations next month.
14:25:33 <Mechtilde> so we had time to decide how we can handle it for translation
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14:29:09 <gjanssens> Let's revert for now and at least wait for fell to chime in when he's available.
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14:29:27 <jralls> OK.
14:34:28 <gjanssens> I have reverted the PR
14:35:49 <gjanssens> And now I'll go have supper for real :)
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15:27:51 <dad> Is there a way to get a report showing actual vs budget profit and loss, like the difference option in the budget report but showing the actual vs budgeted net income or loss.
15:32:26 <jralls> dad: Not as far as I know. The only reports that know about budgets are the ones in Reports>Budget.
15:45:09 <dad> jralls: Thanks. I am a CPA (Canada) not a programmer but I think that is a common report for accountants and owner-managers to look at. I was able to get one by exporting to Libreoffice Calc and creating it myself but it was a time consuming process compared to just getting one from the reports. The Budget report with the Difference option is very close but only shows actual vs budget for each income and expense line and shows total income and total expenses but
15:45:09 <dad> not the net profit.
15:55:42 <jralls> dad: I'd think that would be pretty easy to paste into a spreadsheet and total up the expense and income columns, then subtract expense from income and get profit.
15:56:51 <jralls> Oh, it has the total income and expense, so profit is just a subtraction. Easier still.
16:02:50 * fell is back from shopping.
16:05:33 <dad> jralls: Your right. but I'm wondering why such a common report is not included by default, especially since it involves adding one more line to an already existing report. Like I said I'm not a programmer and appreciate all the work that's been done to create Gnucash which I think is a great piece of software. Just thinking of how to make it more attractive to the a non-tech audience.
16:06:03 <jralls> dad: Because nobody has been motivated to write it.
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16:09:06 <dad> jralls: What language are the budget reports created in? I have been a linux user for many years and know my way around HTML a little. Is it something I could try?
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16:12:43 <dad> jralls: I just saw some mention of guile when looking at the custom reports, which I don't know anything about.
16:12:48 <jralls> dad: The reports are written in Scheme, a dialect of Lisp. I don't want to discourage you, chris managed to become quite fluent in about a year.
16:13:28 <jralls> Guile is a scheme library that integrates with the C/C++ that most of GnuCash's guts are written in.
16:15:04 <dad> jralls: Sounds like I have to pass. Thanks jralls.
16:15:38 <jralls> The Guile docs have a nice intro to Scheme at https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/docs/master/guile.html/Hello-Scheme_0021.html#Hello-Scheme_0021
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16:50:55 <fell> About expense: There are 3 levels in cost accounting: Ausgaben (You pay something), Aufwand or pl. Aufwendungen (You consume something ) and Kosten/cost (the consumption is part of the production process).
16:52:43 <fell> So I think it is not specific german.
16:55:17 <jralls> fell: In accounting terms is sounds like ausgaben = credit assets, aufwand = debit expenses, and kosten = debit work-in-progress inventory.
16:55:32 <jralls> s/is/it/
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17:14:17 <fell> jralls: Yes, the corresponding image: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Grundbegriffe_Rechnungswesen.png
17:17:55 <fell> In dutch: Uitgaven, Opbrengsten, Kosten it is wrong linked in wikipedia, but the same terms as in german.
17:23:17 <fell> in french the middle term seems to be comptabilité.
17:24:43 <fell> But we don't know (or use in the docs) the term in english. Does it exist?
17:32:16 <jralls> fell: I don't think I understand the diagram correctly, perhaps because Google Translate isn't getting the asset accounts right. It says gesamtvermögen is "total assets", betriebsnotwendiges vermUögen is "operational assets", and geldvermögen is "monetary assets". The implication would be that ausgaben = aufwendungen + kosten.
17:33:57 <jralls> Is betriebsnotwendiges vermögen inventory?
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17:35:47 <fell> No, all are slightly different. It is a typical exercise in cost accounting to name at least one that is not part of the other term andvice versa.
17:37:39 <fell> No, you have parts in your inventory, which are not required for your main business purpose.
17:39:34 <jralls> Depends on the business: A manufacturing business will have at least three kinds of inventory: raw materials, work-in-progress, and finished goods. It may have other inventory categories for overhead activities, sales an marketing, and so on.
17:40:11 <jralls> For cost accounting (at least as the term is applied in the US) only the first 3 matter.
17:40:12 <fell> Example of the times of USSR: I sell them a machine and the pay with fruits instead of money. Th e fruits are not part of my operational assets.
17:40:58 <jralls> Heh, that's called "barter". Totally outside my accounting experience!
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17:43:45 <jralls> But to calculate profit or loss you have to either convert the fruit to currency or the cost-of-goods-sold to fruit.
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17:45:32 <fell> They often had no convertible money and we had to find a solution. So many european industrial companies had small trading companies to convert the fruit or whatever to money again.
17:46:23 <jralls> So the fruit would be an operational asset of the trading subsidiary...
17:46:34 <fell> yep
17:47:52 <jralls> But a current asset (is that really what "geldvermögen" is?) of the manufacturing arm, until they could pass it off to the traders.
17:50:32 <fell> current assets are all assets i can use to pay in short time: money, checking accout, non stategical shares, ...
17:50:59 <fell> geldvermögen is only cash
17:51:11 <jralls> Right, s/strategical/investment/.
17:51:16 <fell> , IIRC
17:51:18 <jralls> Then what's Kasse
17:51:20 <jralls> ?
17:51:42 <fell> Kasse = cash
17:52:18 <fell> in wallet
17:52:19 <jralls> So the wiki diagram you pointed me at has kasse as a subclass of geldvermögen.
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17:55:05 <fell> yes, it contains also my money in "normal" bank accounts, which i can use every day.
17:55:36 <jralls> Right, so current assets.
17:57:23 <jralls> And betriebsnotwendiges vermögen would include current assets and inventories; gesamtvermögen would add in capital assets (machinery, real estate, etc.) and investments?
17:59:54 <fell> I would see the real estate factory as part of the operational asset (Betriebsnotwendigees Vermögen), but not the House, where I live.
18:00:37 <jralls> What if your employer owns your house and provides it as part of your employment?
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18:00:45 <fell> Also the machinery
18:01:43 <fell> Only if he is a real estate manager
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18:02:40 <fell> Is it suggested for the target of the business? is the question.
18:06:17 <jralls> So a fundamental difference from US-GAAP, where the important distinction on assets is whether or not they'll be incorporated into product.
18:08:07 <jralls> At least as far as what's "operational" and what isn't. Real, tangible, and intangible all have to be tracked for the tax man, but they're not particularly germane to stating the financial condition to the shareholders.
18:08:40 <jralls> Or rather the distinction isn't particularly germane.
18:09:09 <fell> As fabricant you can rent or buy your factory. If you buy, it will be part of the o. A..
18:10:28 <fell> We are now in the internal accounting. Only the external accounting is for your tax office, banks and investors.
18:11:37 <jralls> Not necessarily: What expenses go into cost-of-goods-sold is of great interest to outside parties.
18:12:39 <jralls> E.g. in the US depreciation on the machinery used in manufacturing is added to COGS but depreciation on the building housing that machinery isn't.
18:12:55 <jralls> The latter is an overhead expense.
18:14:35 <fell> Here you might depreciate the machine over 5 and the building over 50 years.
18:16:31 <jralls> The tax folks determine the depreciation schedules, with considerable interference from the legislature.
18:17:54 <jralls> In theory for cost-accounting purposes (i.e. for determining the expense per widget) it should be straight-line over the working life of the asset, but that's very rare in practice.
18:20:53 <fell> Here in theory you can have 2 different balances: one for the tax office and one for all others, but is too much work for small companies.
18:23:25 <fell> I digged in wikipedias links and found "Ausgaben" related to "Output". Is that a common term?
18:24:59 <jralls> It's a common term but not for that meaning. A company's output is what it produces.
18:26:26 <chf> (2018-09-27 23:50:48) jralls: Then what's Kasse => essentially coins and bank notes
18:26:34 <jralls> I found https://www.proz.com/glossary-translations/german-to-english-translations/accounting, which has a bit more focussed translations. "Ausgaben" there is "expenditure", which fits a lot better than "output".
18:27:41 <chf> "Ausgaben" is everything you spend for your business.
18:28:51 <jralls> One would normally use "cash" to mean coins and bank notes. For example, if you go to the store you might pay in cash, with a check, or with a credit card.
18:30:02 <jralls> On the other hand, when you call your stock broker to discuss how to balance your portfolio you would include a proportion to be in "cash", in this case meaning in a deposit account at the brokerage.
18:30:26 <chf> „Kasse“ is essentially what's in your purse in ordfer to pay without electronically means.
18:30:44 <chf> Your discussion is quite interesting…
18:31:17 <jralls> English tends to overload words a lot so that the exact meaning is determined by context. That was Mechtilde's original complaint that got us started on all of this.
18:32:28 <chf> I've a severe problem with Gnucash's "account restrictions" which might be resolved here.
18:33:02 <jralls> Not likely to get resolved, but we can discuss it...
18:33:59 <chf> Many of the "real life" problems with Gnucash use in Europe are – as far as I can tell – related to misunderstandigs in accounting traditions.
18:35:23 <fell> "expen"se and "expen"diture have the same root. I do not remember the Latin lesson, where it was discussed.
18:35:25 <jralls> I dunno about traditions. GnuCash's account structure is too tightly bound to US-GAAP.
18:35:26 <chf> Oner of these is: "Equity" accounts can only exist below other "Equity" accounts.
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18:35:59 <fell> You need a passive type?
18:36:06 <jralls> fell: Yeah, most English speakers would consider "expenditure" and "expense" as a distinction without a difference.
18:36:11 <chf> (2018-09-28 00:34:21) jralls: […] GnuCash's account structure is too tightly bound to US-GAAP.
18:36:19 <chf> Exactly!
18:36:39 <fell> or grouping by business branches?
18:38:32 <jralls> chf: That's a practical constraint that I think applies to IAS books as well as GAAP ones: Keeping Assets, Equity, and Liabilities strictly separated save a lot of coding.
18:38:48 <chf> When I call the "Jahresabschluß" function, it requires an "equity" account. In German account temmplates, there is never an "account tree" with ONLY equity accounts.
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18:39:37 <jralls> Sorry, what's jahresabschluss?
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18:40:14 <fell> closing books
18:41:37 <jralls> Ah. So it requires an equity account to stuff the accumulated expenses and income, because income and expense really are equity. So?
18:41:55 <fell> chf: warlord wrote it quickly because it was often requested, but it could probably improved.
18:42:01 <chf> This is a very difficult to understand issue, and I'm willing to contribute, because the current state of Gnucash is a reason to make it rather unfit as an accounting programme for european commerscieal businesses.
18:43:23 <jralls> Do IAS hierarchies really commingle liabilities and equity? That seems odd.
18:43:31 <fell> In the SKRs are specific GuV (P&L) accounts for that purpose.
18:43:32 <chf> Yes, jralls, fell, that's about right, but probably not the " whole truth".
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18:45:02 <jralls> fell: What are the parents of those P&L accounts?
18:45:14 <fell> But ISTR they are already of type equity.
18:45:33 <chf> In the Herman SKR templates there's a REQUIREMENT to mix equity and acc. payable/receivable in the samne hierarchy tree.
18:45:38 <chf> German
18:46:30 <fell> I never fully understood account class 9. :-(
18:47:03 <jralls> What equity account(s) go in with A/R and A/P?
18:47:26 <fell> It is a strange mixture: closing accounts, statistical accounts, ...
18:48:00 <jralls> And for that matter, where do A/R (an asset, someone owes you money) and A/P (a liability, you owe someone money) go?
18:48:10 <chf> Your'e not alone, fell, but this is class is the major issue to make Gnucash unfit for "lawful ruropean accounting".
18:48:46 <fell> On ink and paper you closed the current A/R & A/P accounts and opened a new set in the new period
18:49:32 <chris> dad, jralls I learned scheme by watching SICP, reading SICP, reading The Little Schemer, reading "How to Design Programs", going through racket tutorials. each book gave a different angle to this incredible language :)
18:49:43 <jralls> We're obviously not talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IFRS_9. What IFRS is it?
18:50:16 <jralls> chris: s/incredible/infuriating/ ;-)
18:51:27 <jralls> fell: Yes, you closed them by summing them up and journalling them to retained earnings, an equity account.
18:51:42 <chf> In practice, "somewhat official" German account templates always do have "A/P", "A/R", as well as "Equity" type accounts in a special "statistics an book closing" tree structure.
18:53:11 <jralls> chf: That's interesting. So A/R isn't an asset?
18:54:27 <jralls> chf: Does the "statistics and book closing" branch belong under Activ or Passiv?
18:54:54 <chf> It is, but when you close books for the year, you copy that to special accounts below the "statistical hierarchy".
18:55:21 <fell> chf: I think, some accounts in SKRs are only on ink and paper real accounts, in electronic books they are summarys of groups either in the account structure or in specific reports.
18:55:25 <chf> Not activem, not passive, a special type!
18:55:41 <jralls> You close A/R? That doesn't make sense.
18:57:01 <chf> European an US accounting habits are quite different, additionally there's usually a "language gap".
18:57:50 <fell> Once I played with them and used currency "XXX" so they would not affect the real accounts.
18:58:04 <chris> is there a benefit to multicolumn balsheet-pnl being added to Experimental report menu, labelled "WARNING: Equity section is inaccurate"?
18:58:38 <chris> (same as chartjs-enabled charts?)
18:59:26 * chris leaving for work
18:59:43 <jralls> chf: Indeed! So let's make sure that A/R means the same to both of us: Accounts Receivable is debited when I sell you something and you'll pay me later and credited (debiting my bank account) when you pay me.
19:00:04 <jralls> chris: maybe.
19:00:39 <jralls> chf: Closing it makes no more sense than closing my bank account at the end of the year.
19:01:41 <jralls> Unless you close *everything* at the end of the year and start a new book populated with opening balances.
19:01:49 <chf> Hm, jralls, I'm not an accountant, I'm more like you…
19:03:06 <chf> My "real world problem": to abide to legal requirements for a non-profit scout association.
19:04:18 <jralls> Are your books audited, or do you just need to use numbers from them to prepare reports?
19:04:33 <chf> (2018-09-28 00:58:20) jralls: chf: Indeed! […] Accounts Receivable is debited when I sell you something and you'll pay me later and credited (debiting my bank account) when you pay me.
19:04:43 <chf> Basuically correct.
19:05:16 <jralls> Basically? Is there a nuance in your situation?
19:05:19 <chf> All books MUST be audited (Kassenprüfer).
19:05:57 <chf> Probaly there's a nuance, but I'm not sure of its nature yet.
19:06:53 <chf> I'm sure, however, that there's no "very simple" solution.
19:08:58 <chf> (2018-09-28 01:03:49) jralls: Basically? Is there a nuance -> There are also accounts for short terms, which do not necessarily belog to A/R or A/P.
19:10:50 <chf> It's quite difficult to explain for me, because I'm not an accountant, but have to do an accountant's work soemtimes for a non-profit organisation.
19:22:18 <fell> chf: How about collecting the issue e.g . in https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/Projekte#Jahresabschluss or a separate page linked there?
19:23:57 <fell> Background: depending on jralls plans for the release I would like to add your updated SKRs to the repo.
19:24:41 <jralls> Are there any accounting professionals on gnucash-de? Perhaps if one could explain the correct approach, fell and gjanssens could articulate it in English well enough that we can figure out a solution.
19:25:20 <fell> jralls: About translation tools, I just came over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer-assisted_translation_tools.
19:25:20 <jralls> fell: Go ahead and add them. I'll tag the release Saturday afternoon sometime.
19:26:37 <fell> AFAIK there are a few sometimes popping up, if they have time, interest, ...
19:28:17 <jralls> fell: Translation tools are really the issue, I think. Creating useable msgids is. I think we might be able to get there with http://itstool.org/. Gnome uses it to prepare their Mallard documentation.
19:28:44 <fell> THe java apps OmegaT, Openlanguagetools understand docbook.
19:35:25 <jralls> Did you look at the individual pages for either of them? Do you think that you or Mechtilde would use either of them?
19:36:02 <fell> About ITSTool: It is the same Shaun knwon from GDU and before. But I share Mechtildes concerns of missing context.
19:37:00 <fell> in PO files. OTOH AUthors could add context, but I fear that would be to much hazzle for them.
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19:44:45 <jralls> fell: The thing about ITSTool is that we can tailor the translatable chunks so that they're full sections. That should preserve enough context and allow for good idiomatic "reinterpretation" where necessary.
19:49:03 <fell> I wrote a summary on the PR.
19:53:47 <Robert847> Hi, running GnuCash 2.6.17 and Finance :Quote version 1.47 in a Ubuntu 16.04 VM on a Windows 7 host. I just ran Tools > Price Editor > Get Quotes in a SSH session with Xming from the host and received prices for a lot of securities configured to use Yahoo as JSON. I was allowed to continue using good quotes, and the data file was updated. However, when I performed the same action directly in the VM I received an error unable to
19:53:48 <Robert847> tain a list of quotes including many of those securities as well as some configured for AlphaVantage, but there was no offer to continue using good quotes, just an OK button.
19:55:16 <jralls> Robert847: I think that happens when no quotes are retrieved as there are no good quotes to continue with.
19:57:02 <Robert847> Why would there be no quotes retrieved when run directly in a VM, but quotes are retrieved when GnuCash is run remotely?
19:57:03 <fell> Robert847: where is your alphavantage key stored?
19:58:08 <jralls> Robert847: Randomness. It's always run from the VM, it's just that in the "remote" case the display is sent to the Windows OS.
19:58:30 <Robert847> I believe for that VM it is in the virtual c drive somewhere under user
20:00:06 <jralls> Robert847: Is using Xming a new development re https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796868?
20:01:47 <jralls> Robert847: Though I suppose it's possible that there's a network problem when you're using the VM directly. Can you ping code.gnucash.org from in there?
20:02:54 <Robert847> No, but there is a long story about trying many diffrent configurations with each seeming to have one problem or another
20:03:33 <Robert847> over the last few months, not the last several weeks, tho
20:04:49 <jralls> @tell dad There's another budget report attached to https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=639711. You might install it as a custom report (https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports) and see if it does anything for you.
20:04:49 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
20:05:45 <Robert847> yes, code.gnucash.org seems to be at 204.107.200.65
20:06:06 <jralls> Robert847: So you have the 5-10 second delay on register updates using Xming?
20:08:05 <Robert847> yes. Teere are still some slow operations directly in the VM. That was supposed to be a test for a setup on another machine that is currently out of service
20:09:45 <Robert847> The VM has a network issue such that it only finds the network when the host i connected by ethernet to to my LAN domain name server
20:10:27 <Robert847> Wi-fi doesn't work with this particular VM
20:11:13 <jralls> OK. Is that germane to the FQ problem?
20:12:10 <Robert847> I doubt it, but I have not figured out how to fix that problem to prove it
20:13:31 <jralls> Well, try running gnc-fq-dump a few times with both yahoo-json and alphavantage. If that works, try getting prices from inside GnuCash again.
20:14:35 <Robert847> Will do later. I have to go to dog training now. Bye
20:14:47 <jralls> Woof!
20:15:08 <chf> (2018-09-28 01:20:39) fell: chf: How about collecting the issue e.g . in https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/Projekte#Jahresabschluss or a separate page linked there?
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20:17:05 <chf> I appreciate this approach, however, there's much to do, I fear: we probalby won't succeed soon witout accounting professionals from the EU and the US working together.
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20:23:58 <jralls> chf: That's beyond our pay grade, but it is being worked on: https://www.economist.com/node/21559350?zid=294&ah=71830d634a0d9558fe97d778d723011d.
20:24:42 <jralls> That was 6 years ago...
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20:28:34 <chf> Yes, jralls, and the main problem is: accountants are business people, i.e. they are genetically unfit to understand the nature of open source software; they simply don't understand us. There are exceptions, of course…
20:34:46 <jralls> chf: All we need is for them to explain it to us and we can take care of the rest...
20:37:05 <chf> Explaining costs time; and "time is money". I've already asked some german accontants… their "advice": look for a cheap commercial business software.
20:38:18 <jralls> Not very helpful...
20:39:11 <chf> They don't eben realize how inferior business software in comparison to other software types generally is. That the reaon could be that there is no open source competition comes not to their mind.
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23:51:01 <arahael1> So behind in my books. :(