2018-08-12 GnuCash IRC logs
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03:01:25 <chris> fell - I thought inc/exp accounts dont belong in balsheet too, until jralls explained balance(income) - balance(expense) is exactly the line 'retained earnings' which should normally be the 'close books' txn
03:11:24 <chris> so, conclusion, to my understanding, for any balsheet:
03:11:38 <chris> LEFT = balance(assets)
03:12:11 <chris> RIGHT = balance(liabilities) + balance(equity) + unrealized-gains + (balance(income) - balance(expense))
03:21:33 <fell> chris: from my german understanding unrealized gaines are not part of the balance. They can only appear in the notes.
03:22:20 <fell> But there are differences in the rules:
03:23:21 <fell> US: fair value (current market price)
03:24:21 <fell> DE: lowest value (= min(buy price; market price))
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03:25:37 <chris> but do try the current balance-sheet on a book with or without trading accounts - balsheet will still display 'Unrealized gains'
03:27:19 <chris> ^ in the equity section
03:27:43 <fell> Usually you close realized income - expense against equity before you create the balance
03:28:33 <chris> agree but jralls opinion we shouldn't force closing-books to get a balancing balsheet
03:31:03 <fell> Perhaps we could calculate the result as "calculated realized earnings" and put it in equity?
03:31:23 <fell> to balance the sheet
03:31:41 <chris> +1
03:36:42 <chris> I think I remember that if Trading-Accounts are not enabled, the balsheet won't balance unless all capital gains/losses are booked as income/expense.
03:37:14 <fell> If a user closes the book, he has to follow several local rules and business strategy to split the realized earnings in tax, retained earnings, paid dividend, ...
03:39:22 <fell> I always tried to emulate th effects of trading account and always used nearst in time.
03:49:43 <chris> well if you've tried my new balsheet you'd find it'd still be compatible with previous, with better layout
03:50:27 <chris> so much work for 1 report... at this rate, the other reports will be converted/upgraded over a period of 10 years
03:59:53 <fell> It is a fundamental report and became pretty complex of impacts over the time...
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09:27:02 <chris> looks like the balance-sheet *must* mimic/calculate trading-accounts balances when trading-accounts are disabled :(
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11:47:33 <fell> chris: ttrading accounts were introduced, because without them the balance did not balance, if the user had entered trades the wrong way. Did you read P. Selingers articles?
11:56:53 <chris> fell yes i did a long time ago
11:57:06 <chris> i'm carefully analyzing balance-sheet to try replicate it
11:57:15 <chris> it has different strategy when trading-accts enabled or not
11:57:22 <chris> if enabled - easy -> query trading-acc balances
11:57:38 <chris> if disabled - it calculates its own unrealized gains and displays as "unrealized gains"
11:57:46 <chris> so, not easy to replicate it
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16:12:04 <jralls> chris & fell: Sorry, I was AFK most of yesterday cooking for a dinner party. Perhaps fell missed chris's & my discussion on gnucash-devel. There are three separate issues, income/expense->retained earnings, trading gains/losses->realized gains, and price differences on assets (or liabilities, though AFAIK that's never come up) denominated in something other than the report currency->unrealized gains.
16:13:13 <jralls> All three of the ->lines are Equity, of course.
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21:00:06 <chris> jralls - so the RIGHT side of balsheet would include:
21:00:11 <chris> 1) all liability accounts - easy
21:00:27 <chris> 2) all equity accounts - easy (and may also include inc/exp closing entries)
21:01:02 <chris> 3) retained earnings - easy (i.e. difference in inc/exp balances on balsheet date)
21:01:20 <chris> 4) trading-accounts if exist - easy - these offer the capital gains/losses
21:02:00 <chris> 5) unrealized gains/losses - if trading-accs disabled - rather difficult to calculate :(
21:03:09 <chris> looking through balance-sheet.scm it calculates unrealized-gains when book->trading-accounts is disabled, and i can't yet figure formula....... so, this calculation needs to emulated in new-balsheet
21:04:30 <chris> the existing balsheet does NOT show LEFT=RIGHT when trading-accounts disabled and commodity-gains are not booked as income.... perhaps it's something I can aim to improve; but will need to get the terminology/calculations 100% right
21:05:05 <chris> plus, the existing balsheet-eguile doesn't offer any guarantee that LEFT=RIGHT either in these circumstances
21:05:12 <chris> (let's scrap eguile!) <g>
21:06:15 <chris> ^ when balsheet is completed, and new invoice.scm is merged
21:13:27 <chris> ... from your comment 5h ago i think that the trading gains/losses = price differences on assets?
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