2018-08-05 GnuCash IRC logs
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08:20:35 <finster> hello. using gnucash 3.1 (osx, intel). maybe i'm being too dumb, but how do i delete a budget or rename one?
08:21:03 <finster> there's no delete button in the gui, and neither the backspace nor the del key work on an existing budget
08:21:34 <chris> open the budget; the last button is the 'delete' pone
08:21:45 <chris> toolbar button
08:22:46 <finster> okay, too dumb :/
08:22:58 <finster> thanks
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08:37:45 <finster> next one: why does gnucash insist on making the account name ("Kontobezeichnung") column always a fixed width in a budget view? https://imgur.com/a/ZpjI2h2
08:40:22 <finster> even after resizing the column, it gets re-widened after doing an edit in the budget.
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10:28:19 <gjanssens> ,
10:28:19 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, and 17 minutes ago: <chris> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/00ef7f3ab was waiting a very long time!! :-o
10:28:20 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 1 week, 2 days, 9 hours, and 59 minutes ago: <chris> actually I may ask how https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=623381 option toggles should state -- latest iteration is https://screenshots.firefox.com/esrlwPpKnYqIaTLH/null
10:28:21 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 1 week, 2 days, 5 hours, and 43 minutes ago: <chris> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=623381 is now coded
10:28:51 <chris> welcome back!
10:29:13 <gjanssens> Tx :)
10:29:51 <gjanssens> You'll still see me infrequently due to other obligations for the coming weeks, but I'll try to be present frequently
10:30:20 <gjanssens> As for the guile deprecations, I had this in a private branch for ages as you can see from the commit date.
10:30:36 <chris> no rush, i'll be very busy too with new job for next 6 months
10:30:44 <gjanssens> I had to wait until all of gnucash got migrated to 2.x and then forgot about it I think
10:30:59 <gjanssens> And the last deprecations have only been dealt with recently...
10:35:43 <gjanssens> chris: bug 623381 has been around for a while as well :) I have to dig deeply to remember
10:36:07 <gjanssens> I'm not sure if my complete analysis from back then still holds today
10:36:36 <chris> still true... and can be fixed for 4.x series https://github.com/christopherlam/gnucash/commit/dd42d0d50cfec1700212f355989cdc34e5234a1a
10:36:45 <chris> on my report :)
10:37:36 <gjanssens> I see
10:39:01 <gjanssens> When I said I'm not sure all of this still holds today, I was mostly thinking of the "cosmetic" option to add a section label or not.
10:40:00 <gjanssens> At this point I'm inclined to consider this a style preference which is more suited for css customization than creating an option for it.
10:40:10 <gjanssens> But I may be too extreme here.
10:40:29 <gjanssens> Nice work on the other hand in your implementation :)
10:41:01 <chris> Thanks :) it's purely functional ;-)
10:42:52 <gjanssens> Are you still using the deprecated options somewhere ?
10:43:09 <chris> no...
10:43:20 <chris> they're defined to avoid saved-reports errors
10:44:01 <gjanssens> Oh, didn't we have code somewhere to convert options ?
10:44:26 <gjanssens> I realize there's three options being replaced with one each time
10:45:06 <chris> yes, but this is more than options conversion... this is 6 options merging into 2 and too annoying to try create compatibility path
10:45:37 <gjanssens> Ok, but that means you'll be carrying these options around forever, right ?
10:46:04 <gjanssens> Or can we drop them in 5,x then ?
10:46:24 <gjanssens> (We only claim compatibility with one previous major release series)
10:46:31 <chris> oh well yes
10:47:21 <gjanssens> Eh, well yes to which of my messages ?
10:48:05 <chris> -> dropping in 5.x
10:50:08 <gjanssens> Ok.
10:50:41 <gjanssens> Make a clear note somewhere for us to remember then. The 5.x branch is still two years from now at best.
10:51:36 <chris> i wasn't too worried because the most important options are being followed; the novel subtotal strategy is a new option which will need updating tinkering options from saved-reports
10:52:18 <chris> I think the wiki is a good area to store release notes templates
10:53:56 <chris> in any case, even if this is not mergeable yet, it would be nice to have some feedback at some point in next few months. I'd like to upgrade (add-multicolumn-acct-table) to a utility file, and start converting other reports, e.g. trial-balance etc
10:54:15 <chris> (after creating nice comprehensive tests first of course)
11:06:52 <gjanssens> I will try to make some time for this soon
11:07:40 <gjanssens> But back to the obsolete options for a while. I'm not sure I understand what you implied with "too annoying to try create a compatibility path"
11:07:53 <gjanssens> What did you mean with that ?,
11:09:01 <chris> hmm e.g. if 1 saved-report specifies 'asset label'=#t 'liability label'=#f but new report uses 'section label' - would it be #t or #f?
11:09:55 <chris> we're basically merging all 'show asset/liability/equity labels' into one 'show labels?' - how to determine whether to set show-labels based on old options?
11:10:11 <chris> ditto 'show/hide section totals'
11:13:11 <gjanssens> So you're saying the user needs to choose again whether or not to have these labels. In other words the first time 4.x is run the report options have to be revised by the user ?
11:14:19 <chris> yes
11:14:55 <chris> unless we can come up with an option-merging strategy I'm not sure how compatibility should happen here
11:15:20 <gjanssens> Ok. What's the default value of the obsolete options ? #t or #f ?
11:15:45 <gjanssens> And what's the default for your new options ?
11:16:05 <chris> it's #t throughout (because by default I gather most people want "Asset" as well as "Total Assets" etc)
11:16:34 <chris> i.e. SHOW asset/liability/equity/income/expense/netincome label&totals
11:17:19 <gjanssens> Ok. So let's think this through.
11:18:09 <gjanssens> We can't possibly anticipate all user choices, but we may find a most likely use case and optimize for that.
11:18:56 <gjanssens> If all show xyz options are #t or #f it's easy to deduce the user's preference
11:19:49 <gjanssens> On the other hand if they're not all the same it's more difficult. Perhaps they only ever showed assets on the income statement and hence only adjusted the options related to it.
11:20:23 <gjanssens> As #t is the default, we can take a #f as a deliberate user change.
11:20:56 <gjanssens> So we could migrate as follows: if any of the show xyz options is #f, assume the user doesn't want labels
11:21:30 <gjanssens> That's a likely scenario (but obviously not fool proof).
11:21:37 <chris> ... this is not a bad idea... would need documenting in Release Notes
11:21:49 <gjanssens> Yes, that we should.
11:21:53 <gjanssens> ...do
11:22:27 <gjanssens> So with this in place we can dump the obsolete options in 4.x already
11:22:43 <gjanssens> Which brings us to backwards compatibility
11:23:28 <gjanssens> The new options should also get introduced in 3.x as hidden options such that report loading on recent 3
11:23:44 <gjanssens> .x releases won't fail when downgrading
11:24:18 <gjanssens> And what would even be a more user friendly idea is that whenever we migrate an option, the user is informed about this.
11:25:03 <gjanssens> That would mean amending the migration code to create text output whenever an option for a report is migrated.
11:25:26 <gjanssens> Another part of the code can then pick this up and inform the user via a message window.
11:26:05 <gjanssens> I'd have to look how to connect these two bits, but that way we'd be sure the user is informed and we can suggest to review the new options.
11:26:20 <gjanssens> Release notes are not read by everyone.
11:27:24 <chris> ok
11:27:47 <chris> will have a dig in the vicinity of options.scm
11:28:36 <gjanssens> Ok. If you can provide the code to generate migration texts, I can take it from there to make sure it gets presented at some point to the user.
11:31:33 <chris> with that, late here, thx for pointers!
11:32:57 <gjanssens> you're welcome and good night!
11:33:19 <gjanssens> BTW today we had an Australian friend visiting us here in Belgium
11:33:57 <gjanssens> She loved it was mid summer here (I forgot it's winter on that part of the globe...)
11:34:25 <chris> mild winters are the norm here :)
11:34:25 <chris> nite
11:35:35 <gjanssens> Bye
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12:17:19 <Anton> hello... I upgraded webkit-gtk from 2.18.6 to 2.20.3 and now the gnucash reports don't render
12:17:44 <Anton> I get this on the console: FATAL: Primitive gigacage disabled, but we don't want that in this process.
12:18:32 <Anton> should I report a bug on gnucash or webkit-gtk?
12:19:27 <Anton> version 3.1 on Linux
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12:53:17 <jralls> Anton: WebKitGtk won't care. What Linux?
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14:54:08 <Anton> jralls: Gentoo
14:54:59 <jralls> OK, so you're building everything from source. Did you rebuild GnuCash after updating webkit?
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15:05:35 <Anton> That's right. Yes I did.
15:07:30 <Anton> Stable gnucash on gentoo is 2.7.4. After I noticed the report problems after the webkit upgrade I built and installed 3.1 but it didn't work there either
15:09:23 <jralls> You should file a bug in Gentoo, 2.7.4 was an alpha release, they shouldn't ever have put that in distribution. But it's not likely to have anything to do with the WebKit problem.
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15:25:49 <jralls> Anton: I don't see anything in the release notes suggesting any API deletions. Is it possible for you to revert to 2.18?
15:53:49 <Anton> jralls: Sure, I will do that. Just afraid sooner or later I'll have to upgrade webkit because of some other dependency so figured I should try to get it sorted out
16:01:13 <jralls> Well, if you're up for debugging the problem go right ahead. The first thing to check, I suppose, is that the webkit threads haven't crashed. A bit of Googling shows that gigacage has something to do with memory management, but it would take some time with the code to figure out if that error is as fatal as it says.
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16:39:38 <Zach> Hey everyone. I'm starting a new business and I need to track equity for all members based off their initial investments as well as regular distributions that correspond with profits and losses. There's a couple issues that I'm running into though. Whenever I enter in a capital contribution, it has no effect on the cash on hand.
16:40:01 <Zach> Whenever a member put's money into the business, it should increase their equity AND the Company's Assets.
16:40:38 <jralls> Zach: So what are you putting in for the "other" account, aside from that partner's equity?
16:41:53 <Zach> I'm also not sure what I should do for that. I'm not transferring money between accounts in the business, it's just a deposit from the member which I can't track since it's their personal bank account
16:44:36 <jralls> Zach: Sounds like you need to spend some time with the Tutorial and Concept Guide and perhaps a good basic accounting textbook so that you have a better understanding of how double-entry accounting works. In light of that you should absolutely engage a local professional accountant to guide you through setting up your company books.
16:48:27 <jralls> Zach: The executive summary is that all transactions have at least two parts comprising one or more sources and one or more destinations. "Equity" represents the money that belongs to the partners, so if a partner deposits £100 in the company's account then you debit the account and credit that partner's equity.
16:49:27 <Zach> Thanks, I'll take a close look at that
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17:21:18 <Zach> I got it figured out for the most part jrails, thanks!
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17:43:13 <Freenoodle> since a few days, gnucash segfaults as soon as I access any account, I run Debian Buster, installed several debug packages to generate a backtrace. Being a complete layman myself I don't see what library might be at the root of the problem
17:49:13 <jralls> Freenoodle: If you're a complete layman why are you running an unstable distribution?
17:50:07 <Freenoodle> jralls, Layman not in terms of using and administerin Linux. Have been using Debian since 2001,
17:50:12 <Freenoodle> just not a programmer
17:50:26 <Freenoodle> using gnucash since 2001 also
17:50:39 <Freenoodle> many years on unstable & testing
17:50:46 <Freenoodle> almost never saw it crashing
17:52:30 <jralls> That's remarkable--that you've seen few crashes while running on unstable, that is. What version of GnuCash did you install and where did you get it?
17:53:35 <Freenoodle> Here is the backtrace: https://paste.gnome.org/px4vls1xj
17:54:13 <Freenoodle> GnuCash 3.2
17:54:14 <Freenoodle> Build ID: 3.2+ (2018-06-24)
17:54:29 <Freenoodle> from the debian repo
17:55:56 <Freenoodle> jralls, over the years I found gnucash to be remarkably reliable. therefore I am quite stunned that now it suddenly started crashing so stubbornly
17:58:29 <jralls> Ah, that's https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/issues/61.
18:00:34 <Freenoodle> jralls, so it would be an issue with Gtk?
18:00:51 <jralls> Yup.
18:02:16 <jralls> The work-around is to change your IMModule to something besides XIM.
18:06:55 <Freenoodle> jralls, thank, and I'll file a bug in Debian
18:09:15 <Anton> jralls: did some digging and apparently this gigacage feature doesn't work well if virtual memory is limited. I have ulimit -v set to 9.5 GB, when removing that limit it works again
18:09:43 <Anton> so not a bug in gnucash
18:13:44 <Freenoodle> Anton, ulimit -v returns "unlimited"
18:16:31 <Anton> Freenoodle: sorry, I was talking about a different issue that I was having, I was chatting with jralls about it (intermittently) before you joined
18:18:20 <jralls> Anton: Interesting. So webkit was crashing. Maybe you should file a bug with WebKitGtk about that, then. They should at least emit a more useful diagnostic.
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18:22:32 <Freenoodle> jralls, resetting the gsettings value org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-im-module fixes it (I recently had started using ibus for unrelated reasons, this seems to have broken gnucash)
18:22:58 <Freenoodle> again, thanks jralls for pointing me into the right direction
18:23:22 <Freenoodle> not being able to use gnucash was a great impairment
18:23:22 <jralls> Freenoodle: You're welcome.
18:23:37 <jralls> I imagine it would be.
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18:40:00 <Anton> jralls: I'll file a bug with webkitgtk. thanks
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