2018-07-25 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:40:23 <fell> greenshoe: there have been several issues with GTK3 on MacOS. You might search https://bugs.gnucash.org or wait for jralls.
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00:56:57 <Mechtilde> .
00:56:57 <gncbot> Mechtilde: Sent 2 days, 4 hours, and 50 minutes ago: <warlord> We don't have a CLOSED state. Why do you want to close it? Is it INVALID? NOT GNUCASH? Or some other reason? RESOLVED has all those sub-catgeories to define why it is resolved /
00:57:37 <Mechtilde> warlord, thanks for that explanation
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01:01:49 <Mechtilde> warlord, sone issue tracker have a close state some not. So I don't want to overlook anything
01:05:05 <chris> fell I'm restoring left+right cols (ie asset=left, liability=right) (or income=left exp=right) in balsheet-pnl, as well as the weird indented amounts from existing balsheet. but these are only enabled when the periodic multicolumns are disabled. so, the conclusion of this will be nearly 100% parity with existing reports.
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01:15:09 <chris> fell_afk I'm restoring left+right cols (ie asset=left, liability=right) (or income=left exp=right) in balsheet-pnl, as well as the weird indented amounts from existing balsheet. but these are only enabled when the periodic multicolumns are disabled. so, the conclusion of this will be nearly 100% parity with existing reports.
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01:25:21 <chris> I'm rather happy with progress for now... every combination of options seems to produce sane balance-sheet reports
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03:59:21 <fell> @tell chris: Thanks! I was afk for breakfast and writing my answer on the list.
03:59:21 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
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09:15:36 <warlord> Mechtilde: Just making sure.
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12:56:50 <greenshoe> fell, jralls, OK I'll check the https://bugs.gnucash.org as you say. I don't see any notes about changes to files with the 3.2 release. Is there any harm in going back to 3.1 to continue?
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14:10:19 <chris> @tell gjanssens https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/00ef7f3ab was waiting a very long time!! :-o
14:10:19 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
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19:33:46 <jralls> Greenshoe: The first behavior is https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796734 and there's a workaround in the bug report.
19:36:31 <greenshoe> jralls: Thanks, I found that and used it. It works. It also seems to have helped with the second behavior, but it hasn't eliminated it. I need to search bugs to see if anything similar exists. Now the behavior is a bit different. I can edit any aspect of a transaction, but I cannot delete characters. Instead I must highlight and type over.
19:37:08 <jralls> Greenshoe: That's https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796665.
19:37:42 <jralls> Greenshoe: At least if it's after having pasted something into any field in that register.
19:40:49 <greenshoe> jralls: that bug describes my original second behavior, but now I suppose I should be describing the third behavior - backspace is inoperable, though the text is editable by other means. when I get around to posting the bug I will do so. It is much smaller impact than the the first and second behaviors (which are now gone).
19:41:46 <greenshoe> jralls: really enjoying getting my records into gnucash. I'll probably be better about documenting bugs in the future. I"m trying to get everything current first while I have some momentum. I have to start bookkeeping as a habit, and that will be much easier with a complete set of books.
19:41:54 <jralls> greenshoe: If a paste into the register is not involved then it may be related to https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796741.
19:43:32 <jralls> Or not. I never got an answer from the OP on that one and everyone who chimed in turned out to be actually reporting 796665.
19:46:51 <greenshoe> @jralls: yes that describes the issue. I just posted a comment to that bug. I will wait for 3.3. Unless there is value for you to have me test the latest and confirm the fix?
19:46:51 <gncbot> greenshoe: Error: "jralls:" is not a valid command.
19:47:08 <greenshoe> jralls: yes that describes the issue. I just posted a comment to that bug. I will wait for 3.3. Unless there is value for you to have me test the latest and confirm the fix?
19:47:57 <jralls> greenshoe: I don't make nightly bundles for Mac, there's too much manual effort involved. The only nightlies are for Windows.
19:48:06 <greenshoe> jralls: I did not observe 796741 until after I had done the workaround for 796734
19:48:26 <greenshoe> jralls: quite alright. I'll confirm in next release, thanks.
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20:32:55 <greenshoe> Had my mortgage subservicer paid my taxes correctly, I would have created a transaction debiting escrow and crediting the property tax account. However they did not.
20:33:58 <greenshoe> Instead, since the property was not yet subdivided (I own unit b and my neighbor owns unit a. There are a total of 2 units), the county sent the tax bill to the loan subservicer who then paid the whole thing creating a shortage in my escrow account.
20:35:16 <greenshoe> After much escalation, we got it resolved by having my neighbor write their check to my loan subservice provider for their share of the property taxes and receiving a receipt from them.
20:37:44 <greenshoe> So the question is - how should I account for this? Seems to me a set of books should represent my transactions, but the escrow account is (apparently) out of my control. I'm guessing I should show their payment as a negative expense in the tax account to adjust my tax expense to be correct.
20:38:01 <greenshoe> I need an account like
20:38:30 <greenshoe> Imbalance or Orphan but for the special purpose of representing a third party. Is there a convention I should follow?
20:43:14 <greenshoe> I'll create one called ThirdParty
20:44:15 <chris> I assume you want to account for amounts in/out that eventually lead to $0.00 and you don't need account anymore? if so, you probably want a suspense/settlement account. I do this for house purchase - it collects all house deposits, loan fees, inspection fees, partial insurance payments, loan received, transfer to house asset account, etc
20:44:35 <chris> eventually balance becomes $0 and the account is then closed
20:45:37 <greenshoe> chris: Do you set that up in Assets:Current Assets:Settlement or some such?
20:45:45 <chris> yes
20:46:40 <chris> I'd do Assets:Settlement:Land Subdivision
20:47:21 <chris> or simpler, if I've paid $100 for electricity and expect $50 back from neighbour, I'd do 2 txns
20:47:32 <greenshoe> chris: That's good to know about. It isn't exactly what I'm looking for for the escrow bit because the escrow account remains.
20:47:59 <chris> 1) Asset:Bank -> Asset:Settlement $100
20:48:02 <greenshoe> chris: but do you show the second one as income? If it is a bill we both share I shouldn't show that $50 as income.
20:48:28 <chris> 2) Asset:Settlement -> Expense:Electricity $50 i.e. my share is $50
20:48:36 <greenshoe> Ah, OK.
20:48:50 <chris> 3) Asset:Bank -> Asset:Settlement $50 when the neighbour finally pays up
20:49:16 <chris> or something, I got the order somewhere wrong
20:49:27 <greenshoe> The concept makes sense.
20:50:09 <chris> ain't double-entry accounting grand? :-)
20:50:24 <greenshoe> it works! :-)
20:51:11 <chris> it's (3) that's reversed, should be settlement->bank when neighbour pays i.e. you receive $50 which you were owed previously, and the settlement account clears
20:52:32 <greenshoe> ah, OK.
20:52:41 <greenshoe> so, thinking out loud here, I can do:
20:53:50 <greenshoe> Asset:Escrow $5000 -> Expense:Taxes:Property Taxes
20:54:02 <greenshoe> (leaving -$2500 in escrow)
20:54:43 <greenshoe> neighbor pays it back and I show it as Expense:Taxes:Property Taxes $2500 -> Asset:Escrow
20:55:12 <greenshoe> technically the county didn't pay me back, the neighbor did.. but it is simpler than creating a third party.
20:55:45 <greenshoe> Sicne my payments only ever go one way from Asset:Checking -> Account:Escrow and I don't control the Escrow account..
20:56:19 <chris> I don't think you should do transfer from expense to asset
20:56:59 <greenshoe> Yeah, it's not clean. that would make sense if the county refunded me. But that never happens.
20:57:21 <greenshoe> The problem is the neighbor isn't paying me back, they are paying the third party that manages the escrow.
20:57:46 <greenshoe> So the escrow isn't really "my" account becuase I don't control it. But since it is being held for me (though it was mismanaged), i show it on my books.
20:58:22 <greenshoe> I'll create "ThirdParty" at the top level for now, becuase at least that doesn't screw up my income/expense reporting.
20:58:36 <greenshoe> And it keeps my escrow account balance accurate through time.
20:58:49 <chris> I would still not do $5000 to property taxes... if you were to claim property taxes as a business expense, you wouldn't claim the whole $5000, you'd claim $2500 which is your share, even if neighbour doesn't pay up, right?
20:59:20 <chris> your property tax is $2500 no matter what neighbour does, and this is what I'd record (IANAA)
21:02:53 <chris> you'd retain $2500 in asset:escrow because the escrow is now positive in your favour
21:02:56 <greenshoe> So I could do the $5000 transaction as a split with $2500 going to teh correct tax account (expenses:taxes:thisproperty)
21:03:25 <greenshoe> Well it was actually negative. I had just enough to pay my taxes, and the subservicer overspent it by 100%
21:04:18 <greenshoe> But they are actually paying me back. I could pay the taxes with a split 50% to taxes, then 50% to the settlement account lkke you had said.
21:04:26 <greenshoe> then when they paid it back, reverse that.
21:04:35 <greenshoe> Yes, that makes sense!
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21:05:14 <greenshoe> Because it represents my expense accurately, it represents the error accurately and escrow has the right balances.
21:05:21 <greenshoe> thanks chris.
21:05:31 <chris> and eventually hopefully escrow is $0
21:05:32 <chris> you're welcome
21:06:15 <greenshoe> Yes, well if I could get rid of escrow I'd do it today I would, but that has to happen in 2019 unfortunately.
21:06:37 <greenshoe> so it accrues until tax time then goes to zero.
21:07:24 <greenshoe> chris: what about working interest? is there a good way to go about representing that in an asset like a house? My partner put down the downpayment and I took the note.
21:07:33 <greenshoe> That one isn't as urgent. Just curious really.
21:07:57 <chris> what interest? from whom to whom?
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23:42:38 <chris> if the interest is paid to you by the neighbour/escrow company as a compensation for the hassles incurred by their underpayment, I'd think this interest is technically your taxable income that you earned by loaning them
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