2018-07-14 GnuCash IRC logs

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16:56:06 <ptoal> I am confused. :) Using Gnucash 3.2 on Mac. I have Trading Accounts on. I am editing a split for a transaction in an account with a foreign currency. The split is a currency conversion. Once I edit the split once, I can no longer modify the fields. Is this normal?
16:57:24 <ptoal> Specifically, when I type anything in any field for that split line, it just beeps at me.
16:57:48 <ptoal> That applies to the Memo field.
16:57:54 <ptoal> I think this must be a bug?
16:58:43 <ptoal> Interestingly, I can still cut / paste those fields?
17:00:29 <ptoal> Hmm.. No, that whole transaction is uneditable, now.
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17:02:04 <jralls> ptoal: It might be https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=796723. If Gnucash.app/Contents/Resources/lib/gtk-3.0/3.0.0/immodules.cache exists try deleting it.
17:05:54 <ptoal> Interesting. I deleted that file. Now I can type in the fields again, but Delete and Backspace no longer work.
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17:07:29 <ptoal> Stupid network.
17:07:52 <ptoal> Sorry if I'm repeating myself.
17:07:54 <ptoal> Interesting. I deleted that file. Now I can type in the fields again, but Delete and Backspace no longer work.
17:08:53 <jralls> ptoal: That made it through before you were dropped. Interesting indeed.
17:09:12 <ptoal> Just looked over Bug 796665.
17:10:06 <ptoal> Might be a match.
17:11:18 <jralls> If you can shed some more light on it, please do. It seems to be intermittent for most of the reporters so so far there hasn't been anything for me to latch on to for deeper investigation.
17:11:57 <ptoal> BZ says it's fixed. Not sure where to find the applicable commit?
17:12:47 <ptoal> Ah. Found it in GH
17:13:55 <jralls> Oh, sorry, 796665 is fixed in git, but that applies only if the backspace/delete failure is triggered by copying or pasting. Otherwise it's 796723.
17:14:51 <jralls> It seemed from your first post that you hadn't done a copy/paste.
17:16:58 <ptoal> I may have done a copy/paste previously.
17:17:09 <ptoal> But then I closed the register, and went back into it.
17:17:11 <ptoal> Still couldn't edit.
17:17:43 <ptoal> So, maybe I was hitting a combination of the two issues.
17:18:21 <ptoal> All I know is that between trying to understand Currency Trading Accounts, and trying to merge that with figuring out how to track an ESPP Stock purchase with multiple currencies, the input bugs were making me mental.
17:18:31 <ptoal> :)
17:20:10 <jralls> Just trying to get my head around an ESPP in multiple currencies makes it hurt. Multiple currencies implies multiple tax regimes, ouch.
17:20:27 <ptoal> I have this dream that GNUcash can properly track my ESPP purchases, and calculate the Adjusted Cost Base.
17:21:20 <ptoal> In theory, it should be possible. In practice, I just don't understand how GNUcash is handling the splits for currency conversion.
17:21:49 <jralls> If you can track them on paper then you can track them on GnuCash. Calculating the adjusted basis is going to push GnuCash's abilities in just one currency.
17:22:36 <ptoal> The thing is... I'm in Canada. So the difference between FMV and purchase price is a taxable benefit.
17:22:44 <ptoal> And the stock is in USD.
17:22:46 <jralls> Trading accounts were designed to follow http://www.mscs.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html.
17:22:58 <ptoal> Oh... I've read that... At least 12 times. :)
17:23:09 <ptoal> And all the other tutorials I could find around that topic.
17:23:20 <ptoal> And I even dug into some of the Gnucash mail archives.
17:24:28 <jralls> Is the price difference immediately taxable as ordinary income?
17:24:34 <ptoal> Yes.
17:24:58 <ptoal> And I have 2 different exchange rates I have to use.
17:25:10 <ptoal> In just the "buy" transaction.
17:25:37 <jralls> One for the FMV and one for the actual purchase?
17:27:02 <ptoal> Yes. The purchase funds are in a holding account that has it's CADUSD exchange calculated as an average of the rates during the contribution period.
17:27:18 <ptoal> The Taxable Benefit portion is taxed at a different rate.
17:27:31 <ptoal> The good thing is that I have all the data I need to compute all the rates.
17:27:56 <ptoal> But I can't figure out the right incantation of all the inputs to the splits.
17:28:31 <ptoal> Oh, and of course, once the purchase is complete, the Sell TXN needs to be based on the ACB of the shares. Which is the FMV price.
17:28:54 <jralls> So you're doing same-day sales?
17:29:02 <ptoal> Usually with 3 days.
17:29:16 <ptoal> Since I'm taxed at the source, there's no benefit to holding.
17:29:24 <ptoal> "Take the money and run".
17:31:16 <jralls> That's effectively the same thing. When I used to get ESPPs there was an option to have the company do the "purchase" and then immediately "sell" it--they didn't really do either, they just pretended and sent me a check with the proceeds and a letter with the amounts for the tax folks.
17:31:26 <jralls> That was called a "same day sale".
17:31:36 <ptoal> Yeah. That would be nice.
17:31:48 <ptoal> Alas, I have to do all the work. :)
17:32:02 <ptoal> Plus, there are txn fees, and a wire xfer fee.
17:32:14 <ptoal> Which, of course are also in USD.
17:33:15 <ptoal> Anyway... Like I said. Combine that mess with the input bug, and my brain was: *boom*
17:33:51 <ptoal> I used to use MoneyDance, but it didn't do something I wanted (I can't even remember what, now), so I thought I'd try GNUCash again.
17:34:05 <ptoal> GNUCash has the power... I just need to learn how to weild it. :)
17:34:05 <jralls> A thought: Are you working on a current transaction or one some time in the past?
17:34:33 <ptoal> At the moment, I'm working in a separate file. I just created the basic stuff relevant to this transaction.
17:34:49 <ptoal> Working with my most recent txn
17:35:12 <ptoal> Basically, I'm trying to create a model for this going forward.
17:35:26 <jralls> Right, but is the date sometime in the last month? GnuCash has a feature that enables making older transactions read-only.
17:36:24 <ptoal> Oh. Hrm... Txn date was just over a month ago.
17:36:38 <ptoal> Er.. No... 2+ months ago
17:38:25 <jralls> Check File>Properties and on the accounts tab make sure the "Day Threshold for Read-Only Transactions (red line): is 0.
17:40:42 <ptoal> Yes, it is. Thanks for the idea, though.
17:42:13 <ptoal> One more question. Since I want to track the Taxable Benefit as well as Capital Gain/Loss in CAD, would I need to create seperate currency trading accounts for the ESPP?
17:42:41 <ptoal> Or would that only matter if I wanted to track the currency gain/loss seperately?
17:43:38 <jralls> You don't create trading accounts or put any splits in them. Turn on trading accounts on that same File>Properties page and leave that part to GnuCash.
17:43:53 <ptoal> The other thing that has been confusing me is how GNUCash differs in its implementation of Trading accounts from the tutorial
17:43:57 <jralls> And no, you have a single Trading account for each currency.
17:45:49 <ptoal> Ok. Let's say I want to create a TXN that is a Stock buy of 10 shares @ $100 USD each, with an FMV of, say $150
17:46:22 <ptoal> So, I create a TXN that includes a buy of 10 shares at price $150 = $1500
17:46:43 <ptoal> And the split is xfer of $1000 from my contribution account, and $500 of Income:Other
17:47:20 <ptoal> The xfer from the holding account is at Exch Rate: x, and the taxable benefit is at excange rate y
17:48:56 <jralls> Are the contribution and income accounts in USD or CAD?
17:50:06 <jralls> Also the parent account of the stock account?
17:52:45 <ptoal> The contribution and income accts are CAD
17:52:52 <ptoal> The Parent of the Stock acct is USD
17:52:57 <ptoal> As is the Stock acct.
17:53:21 <jralls> The stock account should be in shares of the stock.
17:55:20 <jralls> Otherwise you can't track the G/L from the purchase (at FMV) and sale at different prices.
17:56:08 <ptoal> Sorry, yes. You are correct, of course.
17:57:30 <ptoal> Hm.. Is it normal to have -10 shares in Trading->AMEX->SYM ?
17:58:32 <jralls> If you have a current position in SYM, I think so. Of course it's not normal to have anything in AMEX, they got absorbed by NYSE years ago. ;-)
17:59:00 <ptoal> lol.
17:59:33 <ptoal> Quotes still work. :P
18:00:44 <jralls> Quotes ignore the exchange. That's just there to help you organize your securities and only affects the way they're listed in the price and security editors.
18:01:02 <ptoal> The other thing that confuses me is the whole thing around the fact that transfers from the holding and income accounts are "Sell" in the stock register
18:01:03 <jralls> And the various related drop-downs.
18:01:43 <jralls> Then change it. That's actually a free-text field too.
18:02:45 <ptoal> Oh, neat. I did not know that. :)
18:02:53 <jralls> The only things GnuCash cares about are the account, the amount, and the value. Everything else is for your use.
18:03:04 * ptoal 's world expands in leaps and bounds
18:03:15 <jralls> Oh, and the posted date.
18:03:18 <ptoal> Ok. I have to say thanks VERY much for all your help.
18:03:45 <ptoal> You helped gel a number of concepts together a bit more than the soup sandwich I was trying to hold in my hands.
18:04:50 <jralls> You're welcome. I don't use trading accounts or do any foreign-exchange, so I'm not well practiced at it. There are folks on the mailing list who'll be able to help you more.
18:05:50 <ptoal> You have helped quite a bit. I think I now understand how to do this, and have succesfully modeled a sample.
18:06:02 <jralls> Cool!
18:06:04 <ptoal> I just need to double-check that all the values are correct
18:11:38 <ptoal> *sigh*. I have just run into another problem, but I have to go... The issue is: I need to calculate the capital gain/loss on the sale in CAD, but I'm depositing the proceeds into a $USD account, so there's no conversion happening.
18:11:45 <ptoal> I will have to think more about that.
18:12:02 <ptoal> But all the other math seems to work, so that's good news. :)
18:13:22 <jralls> Book the G/L to a CAD income account.
18:14:01 <jralls> You can do that in a separate pair of splits either as part of the sell transaction or as a second transaction.
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