2018-07-11 GnuCash IRC logs
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05:57:46 <chf> arahael: I don't know anything about that specific "bugmail", but it sounded to me as if they were rejecting $SOMETHING on purpose, which is not good when fighting bugs.
05:59:01 <chf> Every bug report received in whichever manner should be at least read, think (if technically possible).
06:03:33 <chf> I
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06:45:00 <warlord> .
06:46:06 <warlord> chf, arahael Negative. This is all about email to bugs-admin@bugs.gnucash.org.
06:46:47 <warlord> I.e, when someone responds by email to an email they RECEIVE from bugzilla...
06:46:58 <warlord> Everything says to use the web interface
06:47:04 <warlord> The URL is in the message
06:47:28 <chf> That's normal behaviour, so the reply-to should point to something useful.
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06:47:41 <warlord> Define "useful"
06:48:10 <chf> The bug's "address", in this case.
06:48:13 <warlord> the email interface to bugzilla is an optional setup which defaults to off.
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06:49:00 <warlord> I still don't understand what you are suggesting. Email input to bugzilla is off and shall remain off.. So what should the reply-to do if someone sends there?
06:49:37 <warlord> Before it was bouncing because the server wasn't sent up for the domain, so you get a bounce about "not allowed to relay."
06:49:51 <warlord> We changed that to a more reasonable message --- which is what is shown above.
06:50:52 <chf> I don't know much about bugzilla, but I've seen bug trackers (Debian's, for example) to direct replies to a buf related e-mail to the bug's history by bug-id.
06:50:54 <warlord> So I ask you again --- what different should we do (without setting up the email->bugzilla interface)?
06:51:14 <chf> to a bug
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06:51:23 <warlord> Sorry, no, that's not going to happen.
06:51:38 <warlord> debian's system was originally based on email, because it was designed before the web
06:51:59 <warlord> I.e., their web interface came second!
06:52:00 <chf> It's good that way, I think.
06:52:12 <warlord> BZ is a web-based interface.
06:52:19 <chf> Very convenient and easy to use.
06:52:31 <warlord> I'm pretty sure that GNOME'S BZ didn't accept bugmail email
06:52:34 <warlord> either
06:52:51 <warlord> And very prone to spam. no thank you
06:53:19 <chf> Not the point; why not making it better, when the chance occurs?
06:53:38 <chf> Spam is a problem, of course.
06:54:02 <warlord> Because it's more work, and the spam would be a problem.
06:54:21 <warlord> And I DID make it better -- the error message they get now gives a better message!
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06:55:43 <chf> I'm thinking from the bug reporter's point of view, and I've ssen many open source projects non-purposefully elevating the intellectual requirements to successfully report a bug.
06:55:49 <chf> seen
06:56:13 <warlord> This doesn't change how to report a bug.
06:56:26 <warlord> You STILL have to have an account and use the BZ website to report.
06:56:58 <warlord> This is all about responding to emails sent from BZ
06:57:15 <chf> Extreme example: if you NEED to be able to make a stack trace to be heard at all, that excludes the majority of people.
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06:58:32 <chf> Reporting of bugs should be intuitive and easy for reporters, as much as possible, that's what I think.
06:58:44 <warlord> chf: Depending on the bug, that may or may not be a requirement --but of course that depends on how reproducible the bug is.
06:59:08 <warlord> You're conflating two things here. Reporting bugs, and responding to queries about bugs.
07:00:33 <chf> I've written "extreme" on purpose: I jnow that this is not the case here, at Gnucash, but there's always a tendency to expect more than the average user experiencing a bug is able to deliver.
07:00:43 <chf> know
07:03:58 <chf> I've got advanced knowledge myself, being capable of programming in several languages, and didn't do further work on a bug I reported several times nonetheless. Reason:_ too much work in the forst place because of high requirements set by the project leaders on "how to report a bug".
07:04:15 <chf> first
07:05:13 * warlord shrugs
07:05:22 <warlord> We still get lots of good bug reports.
07:05:50 <chf> I KNOW that deveopers of open source software do all that typically in their spare time, annd don't really apppreciate bug reports of the quality "programme doesn't work".
07:05:58 <chf> +l
07:06:06 <chf> -n
07:07:16 <warlord> LOL.
07:07:21 <warlord> Yeah, that happens.
07:07:43 <chf> I'm hust in favour of making it as easy as possible for a reporter to contribute, which includes, in my opinion, not to automatically reject reply emails.
07:07:52 <warlord> Anyways, all I did was fix an email bounce that says "500 Cannot relay" to "500 Use the web"
07:08:00 <chf> just
07:08:28 <warlord> I didn't change the status quo -- I only changed the bounce message to make it more informative
07:09:20 <chf> Which is better, of course, but I think not convenient enough; you'll probably miss quite a few otherwise useful bug reports
07:10:01 * warlord shrugs
07:10:19 <chf> That's a matter of time on both sides…
07:10:26 <warlord> Like I said (or thought -- if I didn't say it already) --- I don't thing Gnome's BZ accepted email either --- so again this isn't a change
07:11:04 <warlord> I don't see how it's any harder to click the link in the email and doing your typing there, vs replying via email and typing.
07:11:15 <chf> A reporter might give up due to time consrtraints, even if having the required information to resolve the bug.
07:11:48 <chf> Doesn't always work…
07:12:10 <chf> I've seen that several times.
07:13:46 <warlord> chf: FYI, if you tried to send to gnome BZ, you get THIS bounce: 554 5.7.1 <bugzilla@gnome.org>: Recipient address rejected: Please use the web interface at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
07:14:30 <warlord> So we're not in any different status than we were two weeks ago before the BZ migration
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07:18:43 <chf> I just write that here, because I've myself given up several times in the past despite of technically being able to help, just because the steps involved were too many, sometimes that would have been just marginally more work. Like replying when you've got time, getting an automated answer to please feed that to whichever web interface, and then giving up, because just now you haven't the time to copy-paste that e-mail of yours to elsewhere. Wh
07:18:43 <chf> issue.
07:20:06 <warlord> chf: first, your message ended at: yours to elsewhere. Wh
07:20:46 <chf> . When you've got the time for a second try, you've forgotten the issue.
07:20:48 <warlord> chf: second, I understand, but if we lose one post a month because of this, I'm okay with that --- versus the dozens of spams a day we could incur.
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07:22:12 <chf> I hate those spammers more and more every day; I fear to retro-evolve to a non-pacifist…
07:22:55 <warlord> LOL
07:25:06 <chf> AFK for dinner, if somebody answers, I'll reply (much) later…
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19:11:53 <warlord> .
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