2018-06-26 GnuCash IRC logs
00:01:59 <chris> https://imgur.com/y2b66r1
00:08:37 <chris> ^ this is meant to illustrate how much data is locked in the datafile and could be converted to presentational quality
00:09:23 <chris> very complicated scheme!
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01:15:58 <warlord> jralls: I think I got the BZ timezone worked out. Required one bugfix to BZ::Migrate and a bunch of changes to my migration script (to call the parse_date API)
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01:44:42 <chris> this balsheet-pnl becoming a monster :(
01:44:52 <chris> it does produce pretty sheets tho
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03:26:46 <gjanssens> .
03:28:46 <chris> Hi, just wish to put it out there, not urgent... I'm fairly happy with balsheet-pnl for now, with some unresolveable concerns about currency conversions. My preference is to disable currency conversion. But I'm wondering whether to replace current balance-sheet and income-statement or add a new combined one and sunset the others.
03:29:13 <chris> Moreover I don't know how the code readability is, to an outsider ^_^ I think it's very dense
03:30:26 <chris> https://imgur.com/y2b66r1 is the type of periodic balsheet I was aiming for
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03:56:13 <gjanssens> chris: what does pnl stand for ?
03:57:11 <gjanssens> And where can I find your "unresolvable concerns about currency conversion" ?
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04:19:25 <chris> pnl = profit&loss... there's mention of pnl.scm in code comments
04:20:27 <chris> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2018-June/077758.html
04:21:57 <chris> my balsheet-pnl can produce a nice multi-date original-currency balsheet/profit+loss statement
04:25:54 <chris> https://imgur.com/a/k3wvSJP
04:26:37 <chris> ps very dense code, with no external additional modules
04:27:02 <chris> has it become unmaintainable?
04:27:46 <chris> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/christopherlam/gnucash/maint-balsheet-pnl/gnucash/report/standard-reports/balsheet-pnl.scm
04:31:50 <gjanssens> Ok, I didn't fully read that mail...
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05:12:01 <gjanssens> chris: I have sent a reply to the list to add my 2c on currency conversion
05:12:16 <gjanssens> Probably not the answer you were hoping for though :(
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05:25:22 <chris> (blow 'mind)
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05:32:29 <chris> ok there's a *lot* of these unintelligible helper code scattered in the various modules.
05:32:47 <chris> (and I thought the closing txns adjustments was difficult)
05:33:17 <gjanssens> Yeah I know...
05:33:26 <chris> I'll apply further common-currency to balsheet-pnl income statement (not done yet)
05:33:30 <chris> and park it for now
05:33:57 <chris> fwiw the currency conversions use price applicable to report period *date* i.e. the date column 01/01/18 gets prices for 01/01/18
05:34:25 <gjanssens> That's good :D
05:34:27 <chris> whereas the inc/exp will have prices applicable for the midpoint i.e. 01-01-18 to 01-04-18 gets price for 15-03-18
05:35:09 <gjanssens> Huh, why is that ?
05:35:25 <gjanssens> Or you mean the inc/exp *reports*
05:35:25 <chris> dunno that was a strategy i felt was right.... can change too
05:36:24 <chris> yes inc/exp multicolumn from balsheet-pnl - each period gets converted using price applicable for mid-point o fperiod
05:36:53 <chris> (or better yet disable common-currency <g>)
05:37:10 <chris> the advantage my report has, so far, is no external dependencies
05:38:00 <gjanssens> IANAA but mid-point seems arbitrary and has no relation to conversion dates for the other accounts so that would be hard to compare
05:38:19 <chris> well yea
05:38:21 <gjanssens> The question is whether there is a use case for income and expense accounts in foreign currencies
05:38:33 * chris nods
05:39:11 <gjanssens> I can see Assets in foreign currencies and commodies. I don't know about income and expense.
05:39:37 <gjanssens> Perhaps jralls can enlighten us when he resurfaces later today
05:39:37 <chris> I'd give P&L report to accountant and let him decide what price to use
05:40:29 <chris> if you have any advice on code legiblity I'm all ears too
05:41:09 <gjanssens> I'll try to make some time later to review your work so far. There's a lot of "not-gnucash" work to do right now
05:41:17 * chris proud of the linkage balsheet to exact split which reaches balance, and from inc/exp period to TR
05:42:10 <chris> ok no rush... just don't want to go too far into this without external direction; stephen is being helpful
05:46:38 <chris> Oops I remember there's net-charts to produce Income/Expense/Profit barcharts which implies they convert all prices to a common-currency... don't know what strategy they use to produce total income/expense :(
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10:42:11 <warlord> Hmm. This is annoying -- I don't see where this second comment is being created.
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12:55:34 <jralls> @tell warlord The comment rpc returns both a bug_id and, if it was made on an attachement, an attachment_id. Maybe the import code is processing both?
12:55:34 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
12:57:38 <jralls> gjanssens: IIRC the business module doesn't do currency conversion so users who do foreign-currency business need income/expense and AR/AP accounts in each currency in which they deal.
13:02:06 <jralls> I don't know what is the right way to price those equity accounts. One could argue for both the current rate and the rate at the time of the transaction. It would be hard to argue convincingly for a rate at any other time in the accounting period that applies to all transactions.
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17:12:10 <gjanssens> jralls: you're partly correct about the business module and currency conversion.
17:12:49 <jralls> Which part?
17:12:53 <gjanssens> The AR needs to be in the same currency as the customer invoice, and the AP in the same currency as the vendor's bill
17:13:26 <gjanssens> However income and expense accounts can be in any arbitrary currency and gnucash will ask for exchange rates on posting
17:13:46 <gjanssens> That's of course only what gnucash *can* do
17:14:07 <gjanssens> I don't know what a business *should* do really as I'm not in foreign currency business
17:14:38 <gjanssens> The odd foreign currency bill I get is entered in Euro. That is I do the conversion manually on paper before entering
17:15:12 <gjanssens> That's probably not practical if you do business with many foreign partners
17:17:00 <jralls> gjanssens: Right. ISTR a user who asked here a few months ago about it. He was in Canada and had a lot of US vendors who invoiced him in USD. I worked with him a bit and I think the end result was that he needed to have both the AP and expense accounts in USD.
17:17:14 <jralls> But I don't remember the details.
17:17:56 <gjanssens> I'd have to experiment to refresh my memory.
17:23:25 <jralls> I think that there are other cases where we've told users that they need foreign currency expense accounts, but that might have been for cases where they were doing business entirely in the foreign currency including a foreign bank account.
17:24:55 <jralls> It does severely complicate computing a balance sheet, though. What's the right exchange rate? How do you account for a difference between the rate when you accrue the expense and when you pay it?
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17:43:20 <gjanssens> The difference between in rate is recorded in a separate expense or income account (at least in Belgian accounting)
17:43:55 <gjanssens> Expense if the difference is to your disadvantage or an income if the difference is beneficial
17:44:17 <gjanssens> The account are litterally named "Exchange rate differences"
17:45:14 <gjanssens> As for what's the right exchange rate, as I said in the mail to chris my accountant states different choices can be made legally here.
17:48:07 <gjanssens> For our specific business he uses cost price (our company has a small portfolio in traded stock beside the main activities)
17:48:48 <jralls> And you're able to source all of your raw material in Euro?
17:49:46 <jralls> I guess you would be, it's mostly wire, gems, and chunks of metal...
17:49:57 <gjanssens> Most of it yes. As said before the oddball bill that's in USD is converted on paper before entering in our accounting system
17:50:36 <jralls> And the reverse for the occasional overseas customer, I imagine.
17:52:13 <jralls> But even then you would have an accrual-payment exchange rate difference, it's just not computed in the accounting system.
17:53:04 <jralls> Unless, of course, you're doing cash accounting.
17:53:20 <gjanssens> No we're doing accrual accounting
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17:54:19 <gjanssens> And the difference is indeed not computed in the accounting system, I enter it manually.
17:56:16 <gjanssens> I would love to dig deeper into this with my accountant, but I'll only see him again near the end of August
17:56:35 <gjanssens> By then we may have moved on to other issues :) We'll see
17:56:41 <gjanssens> Now it's time for bed.
17:56:44 <gjanssens> See you later
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17:57:01 <jralls> Good night!
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