2018-05-22 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:10:28 <fell> jralls:What are this changes on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=619984?
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03:26:22 <gjanssens> .
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06:09:56 <mikee> This looks like useful advice concerning GDPR and mailinglists: https://www.aatcomment.org.uk/gdpr-mailing-lists-the-myths/
06:10:49 <mikee> GDPR probaby also applies to *this* IRC and its archives.
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07:56:30 <chris_> Dear Devs, I'm aware that I'm asking Santa... but given that OFX Direct Connect / AqBanking stuff is in C and in German, therefore hostile to script wannabes like myself... how difficult would it be to create a hook for scheme to go to my bank website selenium-style, grab data, and present to Gnucash for processing? (wishing upon the stars)
07:58:42 <chris_> obviously any progress in this domain will be for personal use only, and I may allow limited sharing when it's proven a track record
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09:24:45 <diego> Hello guys, is there anyway of add the balance value directly? Currently I need to compute the difference and insert it on the Increase/Decrease value.
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09:42:05 <warlord> mikee: It's unclear how that page would affect a mailman list, where users add (and can remove) themselves at any time. It certainly makes sense when it's a corporate mailing list, but mailman is 100% self-service.
09:42:25 <warlord> diego: no. Balance is computed based on the sum of the transactions in the account
09:44:06 <diego> warlord: thx. The workaround to me was to create a .csv file and determining that a certain column is the balance.
09:47:57 <warlord> diego: There's a balance column in the register, too.. .and account balances are in the CoA. It all depends on what you're actually asking for.,
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10:02:00 <diego> warlord: If I understood "register" and CoA correctly, the balances are not editable. Regarding, my question...Let's assume that on day 1 I have $100 on my account. On the day 2, it is easier to me know how much I have in the total instead of the difference. So on day 2 I know I have $102 on the account. What I'm aiming is a way to easily inform it to gnucash and it compute the difference automatically. I know 2 ways to do it. One is to import a .csv file
10:02:00 <diego> informing "day 1 $100; day2 $102", if I say that column 2 is the balance, gnucash is able to compute the differences and add it to the account. The other way is to "Actions>Reconcile" and add the value to the "Ending balance". However, neither of these methods are simple to use and involves too many clicks. That is why I was wondering if it would have an easier way to do it.
10:13:34 <warlord> diego: if that's what you want, gnucash is not the right tool.
10:13:55 <warlord> diego: on day one you have $100. If on day 2 you have $102, the important thing is, WHERE did that $2 come from?
10:14:04 <warlord> THAT is what GnuCash is recording.
10:26:36 <chris_> jralls reliable boost crasher: in register, start typing a date e.g. 1/2/2000... and press another digit to specify the year 20000. terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<boost::gregorian::bad_year> >'
10:27:44 <chris_> or 31/12/9999 and press '+' :)
10:28:02 <diego> warlord: No, that is not the point. What is raising the question is how the bank informs the transactions to me. For credit card, checking account I have the detailed transactions, ofx file and it works fine. However for investments, I only can see the final final amount each month. The bank does detail how much was earned each month, so I need to compute the difference and allocate it on the yields account. I was just looking for a easier way to do it.
10:28:02 <diego> Adding the total on the "balance" column would be, IMO, the straightforward solution, but since I don't know about the programming running behind, I assume there is a good reason to it not be available.
10:29:12 <warlord> Like I said, the balance column is computed. It's output-only.
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10:36:32 <warlord> diego: I'm sorry your financial institution isn't providing you enough information about the transactions it is performing on your behalf. I recommend you talk to them about that.
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11:27:09 <diego> warlord: thx for the helping! :)
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11:39:47 <fell> diego: for investments the question would rise: changed only the quote or the number of shares and why.
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11:45:36 <warlord> diego: exactly, what fell said. If you only know the balance you don't know WHY it changed. Did you get more shares? Or did the price change? Or both? And to what degree?
11:53:11 <fell> For quote changes only most people use finance-quote. See https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-help/acct-create.html 5.4.1.1. Steps to enable Online price updating
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12:39:36 <jralls> fell: Bg 619984 was marked private to GnuCash developers. I removed that marking so warlord can import it without logging in.
12:40:38 <fell> Ah, OK, jralls.
12:43:00 <jralls> chris_: In theory you could load libaqbanking and write some guile wrappers that expose the functionality you need, then write the rest of your code in Scheme.
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12:47:59 <warlord> jralls: ah.. Yes, if there were private bugs my Fetch script did not get them.
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12:49:21 <jralls> @tell chris In theory you could load libaqbanking and write some guile wrappers that expose the functionality you need, then write the rest of your code in Scheme.
12:49:21 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
12:50:18 <warlord> I didn't think about private bugs. Didn't realize we had any!
12:50:19 <jralls> @tell chris I've run across a variant of that myself: Enter a single digit and tab out of the field.
12:50:19 <gncbot> jralls: The operation succeeded.
12:52:13 <jralls> warlord: Just the one. I found it yesterday when I was investigating the "flags" variables.
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12:53:08 <jralls> We had at least one other a year or so ago due to user error. André noticed it and complained.
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12:53:38 <warlord> OK
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12:57:08 <jralls> mikee: That article is about the wrong kind of mailing list, the sort where organizations send marketing mail. The only one we have like that is Announcements.
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13:00:20 <jralls> warlord: Have you run the BZ sanity check on the imported data?
13:01:21 <fell> jralls, for Gramps:
13:01:22 <fell> (18)
13:01:23 <fell>
13:01:25 <fell> This Regulation does not apply to the processing of personal data by a natural person in the course of a purely personal or household activity and thus with no connection to a professional or commercial activity
13:02:06 <fell> (27)
13:02:08 <fell>
13:02:09 <fell> This Regulation does not apply to the personal data of deceased persons. Member States may provide for rules regarding the processing of personal data of deceased persons.
13:06:06 <jralls> fell: OK, I guess. But (18) doesn't relieve a professional genealogist of responsibility for information obtained about living persons. This gets really interesting with the rise of DNA evidence in genealogy: That DNA record you post isn't just about you, it's about all of your cousins.
13:07:27 <jralls> fell: Not that that matters to the Gramps project itself. It's just publishing software, so it has the same concerns the GnuCash project does: The personal information accumulated in email archives, IRC logs, and the git repo.
13:09:39 <fell> jralls: So, *Most* Gramps user will not be affected.
13:11:10 <fell> I am reading https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG and started https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation
13:11:44 <jralls> Right. And for the few that are it's their problem, not Gramps's.
13:11:52 <jralls> Ah, excellent.
13:12:02 <fell> because I feel the mailing list would more confuse than help me.
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13:14:16 <jralls> There does seem to be an inordinate amount of confusion about it. I keep hoping that somebody with lawyers like FSF will put up some guidance for the community.
13:14:42 <fell> (34) Genetic data
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14:06:17 <warlord> jralls: No, I have not run any sanity checks on the imported data.
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14:36:39 <jralls> warlord: Are you inclined to?
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14:38:50 <warlord> I can/will..
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15:07:23 <warlord> jralls: Interesting. sanitycheck.pl throws an error that it can't find Bugzilla::Constants
15:08:32 <jralls> warlord: GTG, back in a couple of hours.
15:10:58 <warlord> Ok
15:11:03 <warlord> I'll be gone in an hour.
15:46:08 <gjanssens> diego: for your information the ability to specify a balance in the csv importer has been removed in gnucash 3.x
15:46:27 <gjanssens> I did a poll on the mailing lists before making this decision and nobody seemed to be using it.
15:47:02 <gjanssens> It also greatly complicated the code and I didn't manage to make it work reliably in all circumstances. Hence my proposal to remove it.
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15:48:23 <warlord> jralls: apparently one needs to run the sanity-check script from /usr/share/bugzilla
15:48:28 <warlord> (cd'd into ...)
15:50:32 <warlord> jralls: Sanity Check seems to have worked out okay.
15:50:56 <warlord> at least, nothing that came up seems to be worrysome.
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16:10:36 <fell> mikee: https://www.riskevolves.com/gdpr-makes-you-fatand-other-scare-stories/ has many souces for UK.
16:20:22 <jralls> warlord: OK. Are we ready to declare victory and start configuring or shall we wait to see if anyone chimes in about gnome_attachment_status?
16:20:58 <jralls> gjanssens: Do you have an opinion about (not) migrating patch status?
16:23:05 <gjanssens> jralls: no for me it's fine either way. If dropping the status makes migration easier, then that's the best option.
16:23:41 <fell> I liked it and checked from the product page regulary in my competence field.
16:24:47 <fell> Although I do not stick to it. But then we might review that, which are still open.
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16:33:02 <fabrice> Suppose there are 2 different debit cards (for Bob and Alice) bound to the same bank account. What is the suggested account hierarchy?
16:38:06 <fell> fabrice: how about liabilities:current:cc:{bob|alice}
16:42:57 <jralls> fell: Of the 39 still-open bugs with patches, yes.
16:44:11 <fell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=browse.html&product=GnuCash shows only 21
16:44:47 <jralls> Try https://bugzilla.gnucash.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&f1=attachments.ispatch&list_id=3&o1=equals&product=GnuCash&query_format=advanced&v1=1
16:49:05 <fabrice> fell: this would be fine for credit cards. But for debit cards, the amount of each transaction is withdrawn immediately from the bank account. So is there a way to avoid entering 2*n transactions (vs n + 1 for a credit card)?
16:50:48 <fell> Oh, debit, but not prepaid?
16:51:24 <fabrice> yes
16:51:29 <jralls> fabrice: Make the two debit cards sub-accounts of the bank account. Then the charges on both will roll up into the bank account. Be sure to check "include subaccounts" when reconciling.
16:52:42 <warlord> jralls: We can wait a few days. I'm not in a rush. I'd like to set up the GnuCash_developers group as well. It's too bad the watchers configs can't be dumped and loaded. It's weird, because I don't appear to be watching anyone else, but I still get some new-bug emails.
16:52:52 <jralls> fell: Part of the explanation is that the project page doesn't include the 9 bugs that aren't "none" or "needs-work".
16:52:54 <fell> My bank puts the card number in the description, so I do not use special accounts for different cards of one account
16:53:30 <jralls> warlord: You may be set as a default CC on some components.
16:54:36 <warlord> jralls: not that I can see.
16:54:49 <jralls> e.g. I sse you're on the list for import-qif.
16:55:13 <fabrice> jralls: thanks, will try
16:56:51 <warlord> jralls: Hmm, I don't see that in the json data.
16:57:33 <warlord> it's gnucash-import-maint
16:58:30 <jralls> warlord: Looks like the default CC list isn't importing, just the default assignee and qa contact.
16:59:21 <warlord> Oh, you're right!
17:00:01 <fell> watch the message after committing - cc-list (- gnome-devs ...)
17:00:28 <jralls> And looking at the docs, that's because the default cc list isn't exported.
17:01:05 <warlord> Apparently.
17:06:49 <fabrice> jralls: the problem is, the bank does not send separate statements for debit cards, but one unique statement for the account; so I don't see how to reconcile
17:07:36 <warlord> fabrice: During Reconcile, Include Subaccounts. Then it's one reconcile process for the whole subtree.
17:08:24 <fabrice> warlord: ok, thanks
17:09:45 <warlord> jralls: And *this* is the reason I'd like to wait a bit before we migrate. If *this* is missing, what else might be missing?
17:11:00 <jralls> warlord: Dunno. We need to go through everything. I don't think that we're ready to migrate, just that we're ready for you to stop dropping the database and starting over.
17:12:46 <jralls> For example, I think we can turn off QA contact. We don't have a QA team. We can also copy the default assignee into the default CC and then devs can insert their own ids into assigned when they take on a bug.
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17:14:42 <fell> If default assignee=QA contact you can do it, too
17:15:52 <jralls> fell: Yes, but that can be changed on the bug edit page. The default CC list can't.
17:17:10 <fell> (downstairs)
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