2018-04-19 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:44:46 <kkknewton> is it possible to crash this accounting program with a sudden power outage. It is difficult for us to locate the information that we had typed in over the last six weeks. I think I should've saved the file on a thumb drive.
02:47:12 <gour> kkknewton: i keep my files under version control (fossil)
02:57:57 <kkknewton> gour: Is there any way I can reclaim the missing files other than start from the beginning. I
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03:02:57 <gour> kkknewton: well, the data can become corrupted due to power outage, but it should be possible to recover from the backup files which you, i hope, still have
03:03:39 <gour> iirc, i keep last 30 days
03:05:55 <gour> there is option for that in Preferences --> General tab
03:09:00 <kkknewton> I had trained somebody else to do the accounting entries. I Did not emphasize the importance of saving each day. I
03:10:03 <gour> well, doing backup is required for any data you keep around
03:10:28 <kkknewton> Question is anybody else had the experience of this program crashing. Maybe my problem is somewhere else my computer. I
03:10:30 <gour> there is also auto-save option in Gnucash...
03:10:51 <gour> for me Gnucash is very stable (on Fedora Linux)
03:11:38 <kkknewton> My OS is Apple i
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03:12:56 <kkknewton> that is one of the reasons why I chose this program and test.I
03:13:44 <gour> kkknewton: wait for someone more experienced to help you restore from the files generated automatically by gnucash
03:15:41 <kkknewton> I haven't had enough training or experience with this program. I like the easy way it operates. I
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03:30:02 <kkknewton> let's try that again kkknewton quit
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03:42:41 <gour> kkknewton: try: "/quit"
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04:59:36 <masterkorp> Hello everyone
05:00:13 <masterkorp> Just found about this channel, from the tip on the application
05:03:40 <masterkorp> So I found out that my bank does allow to export the transfers and so one to a CSV file, I would always liked the idead to better narrow down my expenses.
05:04:00 <masterkorp> But I never had the discipline to get everything by hand
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05:12:39 <masterkorp> Sorry, its a tsv file
05:17:50 <masterkorp> Also, it does get csv, and easly converted
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05:20:28 <gour> masterkorp: i do manually enter my txns in order not to be too way behind, but bank statements are used when reconciling accounts...yes, Gnucash is very fine app ;)
05:22:08 <masterkorp> gour: hmmm, so how do you de reconciling ?
05:24:43 <gour> masterkorp: have launched GC's 'reconcile' window on left, and browser with bank statement's opened at the right
05:25:05 <masterkorp> So its not an import from the CSV?
05:27:19 <gour> well, i could use that and even import into GC, but i'm usually more interested for Expenses' side of txn than the Bank's side since usually split transactions are involved and therefore import of bank statements would not provide whole 'leg'
05:28:11 <gour> however it also does depend on the granularity of your expenses, iow. how much details (categorizations) you want to deploy
05:29:32 <gour> e.g i buy things in the shop and pay by debit card, i usually separate bill onto food & cosmetics and therefore have split txn, while bank statement would provide only one info: expense-at-the-shop
05:30:14 <gour> so, bank statements are used here only to check my manually entered data does fit reality :-)
05:30:19 <masterkorp> That is important too, bu I was expensitng I could get some sort of regexp from the transfer description and categorize them automatically
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05:31:34 <masterkorp> This being sort of like a ldger
05:31:44 <masterkorp> *ledger
05:32:48 <gour> hmm...if I spent e.g. 50€ at Spar, how can regex help me deduce that food/cosmetic ratio is e.g. 40%/60%? at least, such details are not visible here, but the bank just provides info that i spent 50€ at Spar
05:33:19 <gour> there is not enough data in the card's slip for that
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05:33:52 <gour> btw, i recently spent few months using only (h)ledger, but returned back to Gnucash few days ago
05:38:41 <masterkorp> I know, but I only want to categorize my expenses for now
05:40:16 <gour> as i said, do into as much detail as you like - it's easy to re-organize later into more details
05:41:21 <masterkorp> Yeah, i need some video tutorials
05:41:55 <masterkorp> I will start the accounting just from this month and then of well
05:42:36 <gour> tutorial and concepts guide is a great one, take a look
05:43:38 <gour> masterkorp: good luck. it's great feeling when you know that one can have some idea about one's money flow :-)
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06:18:51 <masterkorp> Yeah, i was alwasy very carefull with my expenses
06:19:12 <masterkorp> So I never needed to some some personal budgeting
06:19:26 <masterkorp> Butwith the house move i find myself out of money
06:19:51 <masterkorp> Automating this would be nice
06:22:27 <chrisaway> master: there's a good video introduction
06:22:59 <chrisaway> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqAaScYVeRQ has a nice English accent
06:23:03 <masterkorp> Links please :)
06:23:06 <masterkorp> thank you
06:23:27 <masterkorp> I am portuguse so, I cant understand the difficulties with accents :)
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06:42:41 <masterkorp> Another question, is it possibili to add more fields to a Transaction?
06:42:54 <masterkorp> I would like to have the bank description and mine description
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06:51:14 <chrisaway> there's Transaction Num, Description, Notes... and Split's Memo... that's a lot
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06:51:45 <chris> most of us would overwrite bank's desc with ours
06:52:53 <masterkorp> Yeah, but I would like a reference to cross back with the bank
06:53:03 <masterkorp> like when re importing the csv from the bank
06:54:53 <chris> well getting technical here; CSV will not be easy to cross-reference (except by comparing dates and amounts), whereas OFX transactions usually have a unique TransactionID that gnucash will store and match if you reimport OFX. <-- I think
06:55:43 <masterkorp> Yeah
06:55:58 <masterkorp> Thing is that my banck does not support OFX and that
06:56:14 <masterkorp> they support TSV, CSV and PDF
06:56:24 <masterkorp> i can write a conversiong script
06:56:29 <chris> I'd change bank :) (no kidding)
06:56:38 <masterkorp> ahah, well
06:56:45 <masterkorp> Also another question
06:57:30 <masterkorp> When associating a file to an transaction ( I save the pdf from the bank payments and shit
06:57:39 <gour> masterkorp: use Double line
06:58:02 <masterkorp> is the file copied or its just an url to the file path?
06:58:07 <chris> it's url
06:58:14 <masterkorp> so if i move the file, I lose that reference right?
06:58:19 <chris> but: the transaction association is not meant for bank statement, it's meant for store receipt
06:58:31 <chris> yes don't move file
06:58:33 <gour> masterkorp: View --> Double line
06:58:45 <masterkorp> gour: thank you I will check into that
06:58:53 <masterkorp> now I need to get to work
07:01:58 <masterkorp> gour: this is very useful, thank you, on the notes :)
07:02:06 <chris> masterkorp: Re: moving files - you *can* move files but would want to edit Preferences > General > Path Head for Transaction Association to the new location, which sets the root for *all* associated urls
07:02:17 <chris> (I think)
07:02:38 <chris> this may be for 3.0 or later
07:06:39 <masterkorp> Yeah I am 3.0. I just adding that
07:06:49 <masterkorp> because I will need to move this
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07:53:50 <warlord> .
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08:47:50 <thardin_> are there plans for improving attaching evidence to transactions?
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08:48:04 <thardin_> having to use absolute paths is kind of bork
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09:12:32 <warlord> thardin_: what would a relative path mean? What happens if you move the data file?
09:13:52 <thardin_> well what I'm after is I should be able to move the entire accounting directory with pdfs and such to another machine and not have it break
09:14:00 <thardin_> or even just moving them to another place on the same machine
09:15:31 <thardin_> say I want an auditor to be able to have a look at it
09:17:30 <warlord> That presumes you store the receipts in the same directory/subtree as your data file. Unless GnuCash actually COPIES the files there, I think that's a bad assumption.
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09:23:05 <thardin_> of course
09:23:11 <thardin_> but it being an option at least would be nice
09:23:29 <thardin_> 3.0 incorrectly asserts that "foo.pdf" is an invalid URI
09:27:24 <warlord> Technically it *is* an invalid URI; there is no scheme associaited with it.
09:27:50 <warlord> But if you want to allow relative file paths, then I suggest you file an RFE, or better yet submit a patch!
09:28:06 <warlord> Having GnuCash copy/store the image in internal storage would be even better.
09:30:39 <thardin_> I believe the URI RFCs say scheme depends on context
09:31:29 <thardin_> that is, lack of scheme always implies a relative URI. if I remember correctly
09:31:47 <thardin_> such is the case with URIs on the web at least :)
09:32:08 <warlord> There is still a scheme, http:, https:, etc.
09:32:18 <thardin_> yes but that depends on how you open the file
09:32:43 <thardin_> if I open http://example.com/books.gnucash then a URI like "foo.pdf" implied http://example.com/foo.pdf
09:33:38 <thardin_> storing it locally would be nice of course. maybe I can get a build system set up some time
09:37:08 <warlord> What OS/Distro are you on?
09:37:14 <thardin_> debian stretch
09:37:22 <warlord> Simple: apt-get build-dep gnucash
09:37:25 <thardin_> but I pulled in 3.0 from experimental to see
09:38:28 <warlord> Sure, but this would get you MOST of the way. You could set your sources list to pull the gnucash-source from experimental
09:40:22 <thardin_> getting good old "foo is not going to be installed" despite -f
09:41:14 <warlord> Sorry, you've reached my limit of DebUntu knowledge.
09:41:53 <thardin_> myeah it has this annoying thing where you have to copy the name of every dependency into the list of packages to install
09:42:02 <thardin_> which is annoying to say the least
09:42:24 <chris> thardin_: Edit / Preferences / General / Path head for Transaction Association Files
09:43:11 <warlord> thardin_: you can also look at wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building
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09:46:18 <boldstripe> Q: if importing 8000+ transactions in a single CSV file, better to do it in 'chunks' or all at once? If chunks, how big each one?
09:47:07 <thardin_> chris: in experimental?
09:47:22 <chris> no, in gnucash 3.0
09:48:23 <boldstripe> thardin_: in gnucash 3.0
09:48:48 <boldstripe> (sorry, crossed communications)
09:48:55 <chris> boldstripe: experiment, and report back :)
09:49:14 <boldstripe> :-)
09:49:31 <Mechtilde> thardin_, chris version 3.0 is in Debian experimental
09:49:34 <Mechtilde> I use it
09:49:36 <warlord> boldstripe: I would start in small chucks to train the importer.
09:49:55 <warlord> Then import the rest once the importer is properly trained.
09:50:09 <warlord> Note that either way you should verify the import in the importer and not wait to fix it later.
09:51:21 <boldstripe> warlord: yes, in 2.8 importer unresponsive with 2000 transactions but OK with 250, so I 'trained' it with the smaller group. Did not test then for bigger groups, so will now.
09:51:45 <thardin_> at least aptitude gives better suggestions
09:53:24 <thardin_> libegl1-mesa-dev we meet again
09:55:38 <warlord> boldstripe: define "unresponsive"?
10:00:28 <boldstripe> As I recall, slow scrolling, long waits to press buttons etc. If it happens again, I will record a more accurate impression.
10:12:35 <masterkorp> Ok, guys, thank you finnaly
10:12:44 <masterkorp> I think I got a method of doing my own finance
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10:22:40 <SagarGandhi> Hi all
10:22:45 <SagarGandhi> I am using GNU Cash 3.0
10:23:04 <SagarGandhi> and I am only able to see GST Business India as account category while creating new hierarchy
10:23:24 <SagarGandhi> In earlier versions, I used to use common accounts type
10:23:33 <SagarGandhi> is it removed from GNU cash ?
10:23:39 <SagarGandhi> or this is bug ?
10:23:46 <j605> start with C locale to see other options
10:24:06 <SagarGandhi> Hi j605 , How to do that ? Can you please help ?
10:24:45 <j605> en_US should also be fine I think
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10:25:08 <SagarGandhi> I need to change locale of windows right ?
10:25:47 <j605> I don't know how you would start gnucash with a different locale in windows
10:26:37 <SagarGandhi> Can anybody help please ?
10:27:24 <j605> in *nix, `env LANG=C gnucash`
10:28:36 <warlord> SagarGandhi: you MAY be able to change it for gnc3 by modifying the gnucash environment file. Check the Locales wiki page.
10:29:03 <warlord> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Locale_Settings
10:29:58 <SagarGandhi> Hey Thanks warlord. I changed environment file in C:/ProgramFiles/gnucash/etc/gnucash and with en_US and it worked.
10:30:07 <SagarGandhi> Thanks j605 and warlord.
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11:04:30 <masterkorp> Guys isever any support for cryptocurrencies?
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11:18:47 <warlord> version 3 has the numeric support for BTC
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11:48:46 <gjanssens> warlord: I'm too late to tell SagarGandhi but as of gnucash 3.0 on Windows it's better to create environment.local next to the environment file and make locale changes there. This will survive gnucash version updates.
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11:50:41 <warlord> If it's only for File -> New File then it really doesn't matter.
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11:55:46 <gjanssens> Fair enough. I have updated the wiki page at least for future reference.
11:57:09 <warlord> OK
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12:20:20 <j605> nice, gnucash moved into arch [community] repo :)
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14:51:27 <boldstripe> CSV import maximum chunk size: reliable up to 1200 transactions; files with 1400 and 1500 transactions cause gnucash to crash immediately after I choose the file and click OK in the importer panel.
14:57:18 <boldstripe> This is gnucash 3.0.1 running in Debian testing (Buster). I have 20 GB RAM.
14:58:43 <warlord> boldstripe: can you file a bug report, please?
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15:24:06 <boldstripe> Done https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795383
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16:10:09 <jralls> gjanssens: I think I see at least part of the problem with https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795134. It looks like app_utils/gnc_state_file.c didn't get updated with the new user_data_file routine. It does go seriously astray.
16:14:12 <gjanssens> jralls: How is it going astray ?
16:14:51 <jralls> The same way René reported: "Cannot open file C:\Users\RENROM~1\AppData\Local\Temp\René Romijn\GnuCash\books\Byelorus.gnucash.gcm: No such file or directory"
16:15:18 <jralls> Byelorus.gnucash being the name of a test file I have lying around from someone else's bug.
16:16:43 <jralls> I think RENROM~1 is supposed to be the dosified spelling of "René Romijn".
16:17:41 <jralls> Yup, powershell confirms. The problem then is re-inserting the username between Temp and GnuCash.
16:18:49 <gjanssens> gnc_state_file.c builds the statefile path in state_file_set_base, which uses gnc_build_book_path
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16:19:26 <gjanssens> That in turn calls into the filepath utils to determine what gnucash' userdata dir should be.
16:19:43 <gjanssens> So in essence the issue folds back to filepath utils;
16:19:57 <gjanssens> And the problem there starts earlier
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16:22:25 <gjanssens> The fact the temporary directory is involved suggests the code failed to find a proper APPDATA directory
16:22:41 <gjanssens> It will then fallback by default to TEMPDIR/gnucash
16:23:17 <jralls> Which is failing because of the second invocation of the userid.
16:24:02 <jralls> Which also causes writing the tracefile to fail for me, though not René.
16:24:08 <gjanssens> Uh that was incomplete: I set the directory to g_get_temp_dir() / g_get_user_name()
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16:25:28 <jralls> OK, that explains that: Unless you make that dir it won't exist. Where's that?
16:26:04 <gjanssens> I was looking for it. And there it goes wrong :(
16:26:08 <jralls> But if it can't find the right directory shouldn't create it?
16:26:33 <gjanssens> I only create it if it's not a subdirectory of the user's home directory
16:26:45 <gjanssens> And on Windows the tmp directory *is* a subdirectory of home
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16:27:27 <gjanssens> That's in line gnc-filepath-utils.cpp:354
16:27:59 <jralls> I meant if GnuCash doesn't find %APPDATA%\Gnucash shouldn't it create it?
16:29:02 <gjanssens> It should
16:29:12 <gjanssens> And my comment on tmpdir is wrong
16:29:24 <gjanssens> The code is to prevent gnucash from creating a user's homedirectory
16:29:38 <gjanssens> But it should create any descendant of it just fine.
16:30:04 <gjanssens> The problem here is gnc_filepath_init is called very early in the startup process, I think before logging is initiated
16:30:10 <gjanssens> So there's nothing in the trace file
16:30:30 <gjanssens> Can you make gnucash a console application and restart it again
16:30:49 <gjanssens> It should spew a number of warnings to console that will help better understand what happens exactly.
16:31:35 <jralls> Won't that fail to link because Gtk needs the windowing code?
16:31:57 <gjanssens> That's not related.
16:32:22 <gjanssens> It's a one byte change in the binary to tell windows to start from a console
16:32:35 <gjanssens> I know our old mingw build system had a perls script for this
16:32:40 <gjanssens> I'd have to look it up
16:32:52 <gjanssens> There's no need for a rebuild
16:33:34 <gjanssens> Give me a minute I'll look it up for you
16:34:04 <jralls> exetype.pl
16:34:15 <gjanssens> Yes that one
16:38:15 <gjanssens> jralls: when you get output can you share it ? I don't have my Windows system set up yet with an non-ascii username to test
16:40:32 <jralls> gjanssens: https://gist.github.com/jralls/c39f3d22086e74d497ad933fa689b57b
16:41:43 <gjanssens> Ok, so my test doesn't see C:\Users\René Romein as a valid homedirectory
16:41:52 <gjanssens> Interesting
16:42:16 <jralls> Might it be trying to pass UTF-8 to windows?
16:43:06 <jralls> Aside, is Romein vs. Romijn a Flemish/Dutch difference?
16:45:09 <gjanssens> Heh, his name is Romijn indeed, however "Romein" means "someone from Rome" so my brain sees that faster...
16:45:46 <jralls> Does "Romijn" have a meaning or is it just a name?
16:46:24 <gjanssens> Back to the issue, it may be UTF-8 or mixing glib and boost::path strings
16:46:39 <gjanssens> can you attach a debugger on your Windows system ?
16:47:09 <gjanssens> It'd be interesting to see what happens in line 363-367
16:47:45 <jralls> Not sure if I can do it from the René Romijn account, give me a sec.
16:49:17 <jralls> Nothing will happen there, that's a comment. ;-) The particular line of interest would be 369: auto home_dir = bfs::path (g_get_home_dir ()); where you pass the utf-8 output of g_get_home_dir() to bfs::path.
16:50:06 <gjanssens> What is returned as home_dir by g_get_home_dir I suspect it's the shortened RENROM~ 1 which is not string equal to what's returned by CSIDL_APPDATA
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16:55:33 <gjanssens> It that's the case I think we should use get the homedir from CSIDL_PROFILE instead of g_get_home_dir on Windows...
16:58:01 <jralls> Nope, g_get_home_dir() returns C:\\\gcdev64\\msys2\home\René Romijn, but that's because I'm running gdb in an msys shell. I wonder if it will work from powershell...
16:58:35 <gjanssens> An the temporary directory via boost::filesystem::temp_directory_path (first directory on that path)
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16:59:50 <gjanssens> I had run gdb from a simple command prompt a few days back, but that was on gnucash installed from a downloaded installer
17:00:23 <gjanssens> It couldn't give source lines. I don't know of the installers come with debug information
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17:03:13 <jralls> Running in Powershell works, and even better gdb realizes it's talking to a terminal so one can answer yes to "Make breakpoint pending...".
17:03:31 <gjanssens> good
17:04:29 <jralls> And p (char*)g_get_home_dir() displays "C:\\Users\\RenAc Romijn", converting UTF-8 to stripped ascii.
17:05:29 <jralls> Unfortunately single-stepping doesn't work, and of course I've got the stripped boost binary so that isn't going to help.
17:06:38 <jralls> :et
17:06:42 <gjanssens> And what's dirname at that point ?
17:07:14 <gjanssens> make that dirname.string()
17:07:43 <gjanssens> Just to be sure it's not your shell that's converting the homedir
17:08:10 <jralls> No symbol table info, so I can't see it.
17:08:21 <gjanssens> Damn
17:08:54 <gjanssens> Well, this is my area. If you want me to take over from here, I can do so tomorrow
17:09:08 <jralls> I'll switch back to msys and see if it's better there.
17:10:22 <jralls> But if I can't get data I'll try my first instinct which is to pass g_utf8_to_utf16(g_get_home_dir()) to bfs:path.
17:12:31 <jralls> Well, you were playing in the DBI backend Tuesday. Why can't I play in your sandbox too? ;-)
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17:13:48 <jralls> Yeah, no luck with symbols. I probably didn't do a debug compile.
17:14:23 <gjanssens> Sure, build a nice sand castle here :)
17:14:39 <gjanssens> It's actually good to understand each others work more in depth
17:15:01 <gjanssens> There's plenty of other stuff to do...
17:15:05 <gjanssens> For me that is
17:15:18 <jralls> For both of us. :-/
17:19:07 <gjanssens> Right
17:24:28 <jralls> warlord: Speaking of plenty to do, have you made any progress with BZ RPC? I'm not making any with ovitters.
17:24:44 <gjanssens> jralls: Did you commit the package versions restrictions to gnucash-on-windows?
17:24:54 <gjanssens> Or was it a local config file ?
17:25:11 <gjanssens> The one for harfbuz, boost and one more
17:25:33 <jralls> It's a local config file, unfortunately.
17:25:46 <gjanssens> I'm trying to get my Windows box up to speed again to do more debugging on the search for invoices
17:25:59 <gjanssens> My yesterday's commit unfortunately didn't solve it.
17:26:06 <gjanssens> Can you share your local config file?
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17:28:04 <jralls> The changes you need to make are in https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Building_on_Windows.
17:30:32 <jralls> If you've already been bitten then from an msys2 shell look for the previous versions in /var/cache/pacman/package (use *boost* etc. to list only the ones you need) then run "pacman -U /var/cache/..."
17:30:54 <jralls> sorry /var/cache/pacman/pkg
17:31:14 <gjanssens> Ok
17:33:06 <gjanssens> And a "good" package should be older than April 8, right ?
17:36:33 <jralls> Yes, at least.
17:37:16 <jralls> Maybe I should add that to the wiki...
17:38:03 <jralls> Won't help new installations though...
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17:43:23 <gjanssens> No. Perhaps we should instead explicitly mention which versions to install manually. One can pass explicit versions to pacman
17:43:31 <gjanssens> Anyway time for bed now...
17:43:34 <gjanssens> See you later!
17:43:42 <jralls> Good night!
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22:06:45 <warlord> jralls: I installed BZ on code, but have not configured it. I have not had a chance to play with the code, yet. I did verify that I had to use a GET and not a POST to get the APIs working. When I try a POST I get an error. Since it's just GETs, it should be fine. But I need to figure out how to properly parse the responses and plug them into the right APIs.
22:07:19 <warlord> I've got a bunch of long flights the next two weekends, so maybe I can play with it then (although I wont be able to test it as I go)
22:07:45 <warlord> BUT... I can test it in that I can load a text object and then use that for my API responses.
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