2018-04-06 GnuCash IRC logs
00:02:37 <fell> @tonysoa: If you force close the program, the lock file will remain. In this case you can choose "open anyway".
00:02:37 <gncbot> fell: Error: "tonysoa:" is not a valid command.
00:02:51 <fell> @tell tonysoa: If you force close the program, the lock file will remain. In this case you can choose "open anyway".
00:02:51 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
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03:08:05 <fell> I just saw, some bugs with needinfo flag are already answered :-(
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06:10:16 <julian> Hello!
06:10:53 <julian> I am currently using a android budget book and I wanted to to find out how much my girlfriend owes me/how much I own her after the end of a month. So I wrote a small python script which evaluates the exported the csv file for each month.Could I do something similar with gnucash? I would just need read-access to the transactions and the possibility for user input.
06:11:44 <julian> I read that python binding is disabled by default, so is xml-parsing my best option?
06:12:00 <julian> Thank you in advance!
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11:39:22 <chris> warlord PostedTransaction? I don't think there's API call from xaccTrans to get posted invoice status.
11:40:42 <warlord> chris: My point is that xaccInvoiceIsPosted() could return whether or not the Invoice has a transaction associated with it.
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13:29:02 <Joc> I'm confused with taxes, taxes are refundable, I collect tax from customers that will be sent to the government, and also pay taxes to buy parts that will be refunded by the government, so are they a liability or and asset or both
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13:31:51 <Joc> taxes I get from customers and pay to vendors cancel each other, so I pay or claim, depending if it's a positive or negative total, as such, I'm not sure where I should put them, as a liability, or an asset, or both
13:31:56 <fell> Joc: collected taxes are a liability against the tax office.
13:32:23 <warlord> Joc: probably contra-accounts.
13:32:34 <Joc> contra-accounts?
13:32:39 <fell> and That which you paid and expect to get reimbursed are an asset.
13:33:18 <warlord> Taxes:Collected:ToGovt Taxes:Collected:FromGovt
13:33:43 <warlord> So Taxes:Collected total shows flow to/from
13:34:05 <fell> It depends on your regional accounting rule, if that is allowed, warlord.
13:34:28 <warlord> fell: that's very true. But the fact it shows the flow doesn't mean you can *use* that info.
13:34:36 <warlord> You still might need to file twice
13:34:58 <Joc> but should it be under liability, asset, or something else? that's my confusion
13:35:14 <warlord> Pick one.
13:36:03 <Joc> ok
13:36:17 <Joc> thanks
13:36:37 <fell> E.g. we have a VAT branch in each (asset and liability), but it is easy to build a report to put them together.
13:37:32 <Joc> having them together is nice, helps to know if I need to pay or claim them
13:38:03 <Joc> I'm in Canada
13:39:09 <fell> Then you should put it below liabilities, because you will usually more sell than buy.
13:39:53 <Joc> good point! that makes a lot of sense.
13:40:40 <Joc> thank you very much
13:41:29 <fell> welcome
13:45:28 <dmeey> Following the gnucash-guide i believe that i have found a bug. Can anyone confirm the following? I have an account with amazon stocks, I have 100 shares initially. I have populated the share price editor with multiple price updates which are all inside the reporting period. Now looking at two reports, which consider only my Amazon account, and both
13:45:29 <dmeey> with the price option "nearest in time" i get the following: The "Balance Report" does reflect the price updates - i.e. my balance changes over the course of time. However the "Average Balance Report" does not, although my price changes are choosen in a way, that the average balance does change if calculated by hand.
13:46:31 <dmeey> Seems like the "Average Balance Report" does not use the price from the price editor for every bar it displays
13:52:14 <dmeey> (I am actually using the german version of gnucash. I have not checked the actual report names in the english version. If it is unclear which reports I refer to, then I will try to get the english version running.)
14:12:54 <fell> dmeey: chris is the report expert, but currently afk.
14:16:42 <fell> Aber du kannst mir mal sagen, welchen du mit dem "Average Balance Report" meinst.
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14:28:37 <chris> warlord: ahhh I get you now, gncInvoiceIsPosted can change logic from testing invoice->account to invoice->transaction - sounds solid, will need to test in the field
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14:33:24 <chris> dmeey: I'm still trying to decode the various reports created; the "Average Balance Report" is one that gives me some headaches. It doesn't just compute some 'average balance', it also computes 'profit' and 'gain/loss' but their definitions elude me for now. IIRC they don't really relate to pricedb updates; but rather the actual currency cost of shares bought/sold
14:35:07 <chris> many reports also denote 'nearest in time', 'average cost', 'weighted average' - these definitions are very muddy to me -- but at least 'nearest in time' usually means 'nearest pricedb to the end-date of report', 'most-recent' means 'latest from pricedb'.
14:35:17 <dmeey> @fell - "Durchschnittlicher Kontostand"
14:35:17 <gncbot> dmeey: Error: "fell" is not a valid command.
14:36:54 <chris> "Report > Assets & Liabilities > Average balance report" - doesn't seem very normative does it?
14:39:17 <fell> Oh, I never used it. ;-)
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14:45:05 <chris> in my view, 'average balance report' was created as a general-purpose report to sum amounts across months. its options are rather unique, which places it squarely as a dinosaur report, been updated and debugged, but never really had a purpose other than the author's own interests :)
14:45:06 <chris> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/8eb597be354c38dff38e4c0b9a2fc14166d51091#diff-b5f1392a267718076ee4189b458d5e77
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14:48:41 <dmeey> I haven't yet thought about the usefulness of the report itself. It just seems odd to me, that the behavior of 'nearest in time' is not defined in a consistent way between the reports. For me it is problematic since it breeds uncertainity and I am not quite sure if I can trust my knowledge about different options between various parts of the progra
14:48:42 <dmeey> m - or if I have to recheck it everytime...
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14:50:40 <chris> :) as a gnucash user myself, and as a hacker, I strongly recommend familiarising yourself with 2-3 reports only and use those exclusively. I myself only need the Transaction Report, the Balance Sheet, and the NetWorth linechart to reassure myself of an upsloping line :)
14:50:53 <finster> hello all! anyone speaking german here? what kind of account would I have to create for rent deposit?
14:52:27 <finster> it is money that belongs to me, so an asset. but at the same time i cannot access it, so it should not count against the net assets (imo).
14:53:06 <chris> finster: not german, but if it's for the rent deposit that you've paid as a tenant, I'd place it in Asset:Short-Term:RentDeposit... the fact you can't access it yet it's technically yours when you vacate
14:53:35 <dmeey> Is there any place where the reports and in particular the associated calculation routines are documented?
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14:53:58 <chris> dmeey: erm, only by reading the source code :)
14:54:20 <finster> chris: hrm
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14:57:06 <mib_0dki7m> How do I book debit cards in Gnucash?
14:57:29 <finster> mib_0dki7m: what in particular?
14:58:35 <warlord> mib_0dki7m: I don't understand the question
14:59:07 <warlord> dmeey: only in the code; there's not really a document about reports.
15:00:04 <mib_0dki7m> Do I just put it in as credit card but never book any charges?
15:00:31 <chris> mib_0dki7m: I think debit cards will debit your bank account, so, they produce transactions from your Asset Bank Account to Expenses directly
15:00:58 <mib_0dki7m> Instead put all charges in the checking acct it's connected to?
15:01:02 <warlord> mib_0dki7m: Is it just tied directly to your bank account?
15:01:23 <mib_0dki7m> yes
15:01:24 <warlord> I would just book them direct to the bank account, and in the Num field put "Debit Card"
15:01:57 <mib_0dki7m> thats wot I been doing.
15:04:37 <mib_0dki7m> I need the acct# of the debit card so I know where it goes?
15:06:15 <mib_0dki7m> Is there Debit Card acct Type? That automaticallly connects to checking acct?
15:06:52 <fell> Finster: Das wär mal eine interessante Frage für mailto:gnucash-de. Eventell liest da auch die eine oder andere Steuerfachkraft mit.
15:07:35 <mib_0dki7m> Sorry, no Deutsch here.
15:09:07 <warlord> mib_0dki7m: no, there is not.
15:09:21 <warlord> You just need to book it to checking.
15:09:44 <fell> mib_0dki7m, whoever you are,: I suggested Finster to ask on the germa mailinglist.
15:10:40 <mib_0dki7m> Should I make the debit card a 'placeholder'?
15:11:30 <mib_0dki7m> Google transalted: That would be an interesting question for mailto: gnucash-de. Eventually, one or the other tax expert will read along.
15:12:45 <dmeey> chris - Thank you for your input. I am currently looking at the possibility to create custom reports in order to get an idea how reports are defined. My first impression of gnucash is a little bit clouded right now since the documentation seems to be very sketchy.
15:14:24 <fell> In the last decade, chris was the only report developer, who contributed also to the documentation. :-)
15:14:35 <mib_0dki7m> FYI the reports are a slow 'klug', but it work .. slrta kinda maybe LOL
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15:29:19 <dmeey> Well, I have no practical experience yet. Neither am I completely clear about my needs yet. Time will show if the offered is sufficient for me. I do like the fact, that you are so fast with replies in the IRC. Thank you ;)
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15:31:50 <fell> dmeey, perhaps you should start from the end:If you have to declare tax, you might consider a accounts structure similat to your tex forms.
15:33:11 <fell> If you want know, why there is still so much month at the end of the cash, you should put mor details in your expense structure...
15:33:36 <mib_0dki7m> Tanx everyone. Fast answers here
15:33:50 <mib_0dki7m> C U bibi
15:34:00 <fell> CU
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15:44:31 <dmeey> Tax declaration is not my concern right now. I started looking at gnucash for two reasons: 1. I would like to get a better overview of how the cash flows and how the current situation develops. It seems that this can be delivered by gnucash. 2. I am also selling and buying some stuff, I am currently using excel to calculate various additional data(
15:44:34 <dmeey> e.g. average prices). I hope that I can document this in gnucash too. I am not quite sure about this and right now I am not sure if it is possible to implement this calculations/reports by myself with reasonable effort
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15:57:12 <dmeey> Fell - Since you seem to be familiar with the german version of gnucash. Is this the recommended version if you live in a german speaking country? Or should I use the english version? It seems that the quality of the english version is better?
15:58:54 <fell> The differences are the .po file (Program translation) and the account templates.
16:01:14 <fell> Mechtilde, DiMang and I are working on the german translation, so if yo see issues, the best way to report them is the german mailing list.
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16:03:27 <fell> Raally rudimentary is the german Translation of Help while the Guide is also not complete, but is becoming better.
16:03:38 <dmeey> I havent seem any problems in the interface yet. However, the gnucash-guide in german seems to be not as detailed as the english version
16:04:49 <dmeey> maybe my bad impression of the documentation originates from using the german version
16:05:28 <fell> Yes, as I told you, we are only 3 persons and have also other stuff to do.
16:06:48 <fell> If you like, translate a chapter and send it to us. {[https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Translation]
16:13:31 <dmeey> I did not mean any offence, I am thankfull for what has been done already by you guys.
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16:16:39 * fell is always trying to involve users in translation and documentation tasks. ;-)
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16:54:46 <jralls> fell: I'm finally about to release 2.6.20 and I'm looking at your "Fixme" in index.phtml. Should we get rid of XP/Vista and PPC or should we have them point at old_stable?
16:56:54 <fell> One Moment, have to remember
17:01:12 <fell> Now I would it only hardcode.
17:01:46 <fell> Just in case we have forgotten it at the next release.
17:03:35 <fell> $latest_stable_xp_vista ="2.6.20" ;
17:03:55 <jralls> OK.
17:04:34 <fell> same for latest_stable_mac_ppc
17:04:48 <jralls> Of course. ;-)
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17:33:04 <alan> Ok... used to use Quickbooks Pro Desktop years ago. Don't really want to do their online version since I don't have a big payroll. How are people finding Gnucash by comparison? I tried it last year, but felt it was a lot of work, with not much insightful reports. Any feedback?
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17:55:48 <fell> jralls: http://packages.ubuntu.com/zesty/gnome/gnucash
17:56:19 <jralls> Am I supposed to know what to do about that?
17:56:59 <fell> They need 1/2 year testing
17:59:21 <jralls> fell: I get an error following your link, "two packages found". When I go to the search page and search on gnucash I don't get anything for zesty.
17:59:46 <fell> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=gnucash&searchon=names&suite=artful§ion=all
18:00:08 <fell> the first was from our wiki
18:01:03 <jralls> That said, I got an email two weeks ago asking when 3.0 would release because they wanted to put it in 18.04 LTS. I told them, but also mentioned that it was too bad it would be a 0 release because Ubuntu never updates GnuCash. We still have users trying to report bugs on 2.6.1 because it's whats in trusty.
18:02:13 <ArtGravity> jralls, Thank goodness for GetDeb. I don't know what I'd do without it.
18:02:21 <fell> from our wiki page: The latest stable GnuCash version is usually available at GetDeb ...
18:02:53 <jralls> Yes, I know. But a lot of users, especially those who want an LTS, won't use getdeb.
18:03:45 <jralls> So frankly it's better that they have 2.6.17 than 3.0 in 18.04LTS. They can pick up 3.3 for 18.10.
18:05:39 <jralls> However, it's also possible that 18.04 won't have any GnuCash: The reason that they wanted 3.0 was to drop WebKit1.
18:07:00 <fell> Perhaps is fixing bug 794967 a security update?
18:08:05 <jralls> I don't know that we can fix 794967.
18:08:49 <jralls> I guess it depends on what Microsoft comes back with... if they don't just black-hole it.
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18:19:30 <fell> Strange, I got twice in the wrong row above. Ubuntu 18.04 ("Bionic Beaver") https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/gnome/gnucash is 2.6.18-1
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18:30:40 <znoteer_> I'm just starting with gnucash. Somewhere in either the Help window, or the Tutorial and Concepts Guide there is discussion about where to and where not to save ones accounts file. I can't refind it. Can anyone point me to the right place?
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18:33:16 <jralls> znoteer_ You may be thinking of http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.6/C/gnucash-guide/basics-files1.html, though it doesn't have much in the way of guidance. There are two rules:
18:33:38 <jralls> 1. Do not use the directory where GnuCash stores its metadata.
18:33:53 <jralls> 2. Do use a directory that you will be able to find again.
18:34:55 <jralls> In addition you should be aware that GnuCash creates a bunch of additional files that can make the directory rather cluttered, so you probably want a dedicated directory for GnuCash data and you probably don't want to save to your desktop.
18:38:56 <znoteer_> @jralls: I saw that doc page, that's not it. But, I think you've basically summed up the bit I was looking for with your 2 rules. Thanks!
18:38:56 <gncbot> znoteer_: Error: "jralls:" is not a valid command.
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19:08:58 <fell> jralls: Why do you you always upload exe files under a different name than you announce?
19:10:27 <fell> -setup.exe vs. .setup.exe
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19:11:25 <fell> last time was it .- or -.?
19:12:04 <fell> Fixed at SF
19:12:09 <jralls> I think it's an issue with the bundling script.
19:13:07 <fell> - only between Name and number and for patch levels
19:13:29 <jralls> Yes, there it is, bundle-mingw64.ps1 line 140: "gnucash-$package_version-setup.exe".
19:13:41 <boldstripe> Talking of the clutter of gnucash backup and log files, is there a way to dedicate a directory just for saving the backup and log files, and keep the main files isolated?
19:13:56 <jralls> And package version needs to be fixed for only two-part versions.
19:14:16 <jralls> boldstripe: Not at present, though it's been suggested before.
19:16:31 <jralls> fell: OK, fix pushed. And thanks for renaming SF for me.
19:22:37 <fell> If the link is correct, the download process is started, if not the direcory is displayed. Easy to check.
19:31:54 <fell> In https://sourceforge.net/projects/gnucash/files/gnucash%20%28stable%29/2.6.20/README.txt is still a "-"
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20:03:16 <jralls> OK, the README.txt is fixed.
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